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Burgess barrage

E

English Rose

Juniors
Messages
560
DiegoNT said:
This is where we were at at the start of 2016. We got rid of a few decent first graders to make way for Sam. But it was worth it, Sam can do the work off 3 players, he will lift others especially the twins. They will roll over everyone. Tyrrell and Clark will do, they are dependable no frill forwards and you know what we'll get with them.

Fast forward to rd 2 2017. Our forward pack is a joke.
Tyrrell and Clark haven't changed.
Sam isn't the same as 3 players. In fact he there are about 8 of so locks at roughly the same level if not better.
The twins have gone backwards.

So who's to blame?
Clark and Tyrrell of course. Sure they are playing to the original plan of being no frills dependable players, but it's their fault for not being rampaging beasts who run over people and bend the line
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The only lock better than Sam in the competition at the moment is Taumalolo imo.

I agree with your criticism of the twins but don't see how you can bag Sam all the time. Tell me again Diego who got Souths Players Player and Coaches Player of the year last year? Oh yes it was Sam Burgess but you still seem to criticise him over these other players who have shown absolutely nothing for a few years now like Tyrell & Clark etc.
 
DiegoNT

DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
English Rose said:
The only lock better than Sam in the competition at the moment is Taumalolo imo.

I agree with your criticism of the twins but don't see how you can bag Sam all the time. Tell me again Diego who got Souths Players Player and Coaches Player of the year last year? Oh yes it was Sam Burgess but you still seem to criticise him over these other players who have shown absolutely nothing for a few years now like Tyrell & Clark etc.
Click to expand...
He got the awards last year in a team that ran 12th.
Again it's not that Sam is bad, far from it, but we are paying him the same that teams are paying guy's like Milford, Thurston and cronk real game winners. There's also the factor of the way he came back into the club, and who we lost to keep him.
There were quite a few locks who who just as good if not better then Sam. Sam is Better when he has that X Factor, running over people and being an enforcer. Since his return he just hasn't done that. He works hard, but hard working lock/props are a dime a dozen and a lot cheaper. A performance like Friday night, where he barely ran more metres then Tyrrell, and made less tackles then Clark with more misses isn't good enough. The excuse he is doing better then tyrrell and Clark doesn't say much. On his wage that should go without saying. And you can't blame tyrrell and Clark for being who they are. To get Sam back we had to lose 5 players that had played test or origin. That's the reason why those 2 are there, we had to cut our depth razor thin to make him fit
 
Rabbits20

Rabbits20

Immortal
Messages
42,078
English Rose said:
The only lock better than Sam in the competition at the moment is Taumalolo imo.

I agree with your criticism of the twins but don't see how you can bag Sam all the time. Tell me again Diego who got Souths Players Player and Coaches Player of the year last year? Oh yes it was Sam Burgess but you still seem to criticise him over these other players who have shown absolutely nothing for a few years now like Tyrell & Clark etc.
Click to expand...
Bullseye.
 
themacemaceman

themacemaceman

Juniors
Messages
1,200
DiegoNT said:
He got the awards last year in a team that ran 12th.
Again it's not that Sam is bad, far from it, but we are paying him the same that teams are paying guy's like Milford, Thurston and cronk real game winners. There's also the factor of the way he came back into the club, and who we lost to keep him.
There were quite a few locks who who just as good if not better then Sam. Sam is Better when he has that X Factor, running over people and being an enforcer. Since his return he just hasn't done that. He works hard, but hard working lock/props are a dime a dozen and a lot cheaper. A performance like Friday night, where he barely ran more metres then Tyrrell, and made less tackles then Clark with more misses isn't good enough. The excuse he is doing better then tyrrell and Clark doesn't say much. On his wage that should go without saying. And you can't blame tyrrell and Clark for being who they are. To get Sam back we had to lose 5 players that had played test or origin. That's the reason why those 2 are there, we had to cut our depth razor thin to make him fit
Click to expand...

Mate I agree with this. Sam is not the same player although he is still a very good player we only see glimpses of x-factor like the hit on Taylor on Friday night.

I'm struggling to come up with the 5 test or origin players we lost to resign him.
McQueen , Grant (he can go on Shadows dud list) who else was there?
Isaac was announced mid season so was already gone.
Walker....... was moved on due to him getting himself into strife too often.
 
DiegoNT

DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
themacemaceman said:
Mate I agree with this. Sam is not the same player although he is still a very good player we only see glimpses of x-factor like the hit on Taylor on Friday night.

I'm struggling to come up with the 5 test or origin players we lost to resign him.
McQueen , Grant (he can go on Shadows dud list) who else was there?
Isaac was announced mid season so was already gone.
Click to expand...
Walker, Stewart, Luke, McQueen, grant.
We lost those players. We lost Luke earlier in the year I know, but we never hit the market for a suitable replacement. I know it was before Sam quit union, but the rumblings that Sam wanted out had already started. Stewart was released about 2 weeks before Sam quit union, I believe we originally thought we didn't have to release anyone, until we had to dump McQueen as grant quickly and at half-outcroP. The Walker Thing may have had other factors involved, but the timing wasn't right. We were struggling to get Sam signed and I believe that that had a factor. These were many other centres available at the time to replace him, but because we had the Sam drama we got Nielsen instead.
That's 5 good players gone, either gone completely or replaced by an inferior cheaper option (cook, nielsen) to make sam fit.
The rationale was that Sam offered something that no other forward can, that that X factor alone would make up for having razor thin forward depth because he'd somehow make other players like the twins and tyrrell/Clark lift. Sam hasn't had that extra bit, that X Factor. We get the old Sam occasionally, we had it for about 10 minutes in the tigers game, but what Sam has provided over the last season and a bit can be done by about 25 other lock/props. While that's good, it's not what we signed a huge contract and released all those players for.
 
Souths Till I Die

Souths Till I Die

First Grade
Messages
6,007
DiegoNT said:
Walker, Stewart, Luke, McQueen, grant.
We lost those players. We lost Luke earlier in the year I know, but we never hit the market for a suitable replacement. I know it was before Sam quit union, but the rumblings that Sam wanted out had already started. Stewart was released about 2 weeks before Sam quit union, I believe we originally thought we didn't have to release anyone, until we had to dump McQueen as grant quickly and at half-outcroP. The Walker Thing may have had other factors involved, but the timing wasn't right. We were struggling to get Sam signed and I believe that that had a factor. These were many other centres available at the time to replace him, but because we had the Sam drama we got Nielsen instead.
That's 5 good players gone, either gone completely or replaced by an inferior cheaper option (cook, nielsen) to make sam fit.
The rationale was that Sam offered something that no other forward can, that that X factor alone would make up for having razor thin forward depth because he'd somehow make other players like the twins and tyrrell/Clark lift. Sam hasn't had that extra bit, that X Factor. We get the old Sam occasionally, we had it for about 10 minutes in the tigers game, but what Sam has provided over the last season and a bit can be done by about 25 other lock/props. While that's good, it's not what we signed a huge contract and released all those players for.
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Luke didn't want to be at Souths anymore all he was doing was sitting on the sideline and getting suspended in 2015 for the same f**king shoulder charge. McQueen, grant and Stewart are all average players. I still wouldn't want them back. Especially not for over 500k. The biggest loss to our side was definitely Dylan Walker we have been trying to fill that centre spot badly and the only one who has come close to looking like a good replacement was gray and he's practically out for the season. Our injuries over the past 2 years have been pretty shitty as well. Our roster on paper is quite solid but as soon as injuries hit our roster starts to look less and less promising. Let's look at teams who have done well over the past few years. Sharks: they had practically 0 injuries in 2016. I can't remember 1 important player sitting out for too long. Cowboys: I have no idea how they kept their squad together so well throughout 2015 with half of them being origin players. They never got an injury to a key player if I remember correctly. Even Souths in 2014 were barely hit with many significant injuries and that allowed our spine to stay intact. Our forwards were all fit and firing as well as they had no hip or knee issues like they do now. Now if you look at the wooden spooners/ people near the bottom of the ladder over the past few years. They always have the highest injuries lists e.g. Manly, Newcastle, Souths, roosters were all shot with injuries last year and underperformed majorly. The only exception to this rule is the storm. They have players like Cronk and smith who can make other players look like absolute stars.
 
DiegoNT

DiegoNT

First Grade
Messages
9,378
Souths Till I Die said:
Luke didn't want to be at Souths anymore all he was doing was sitting on the sideline and getting suspended in 2015 for the same f**king shoulder charge. McQueen, grant and Stewart are all average players. I still wouldn't want them back. Especially not for over 500k. The biggest loss to our side was definitely Dylan Walker we have been trying to fill that centre spot badly and the only one who has come close to looking like a good replacement was gray and he's practically out for the season. Our injuries over the past 2 years have been pretty shitty as well. Our roster on paper is quite solid but as soon as injuries hit our roster starts to look less and less promising. Let's look at teams who have done well over the past few years. Sharks: they had practically 0 injuries in 2016. I can't remember 1 important player sitting out for too long. Cowboys: I have no idea how they kept their squad together so well throughout 2015 with half of them being origin players. They never got an injury to a key player if I remember correctly. Even Souths in 2014 were barely hit with many significant injuries and that allowed our spine to stay intact. Our forwards were all fit and firing as well as they had no hip or knee issues like they do now. Now if you look at the wooden spooners/ people near the bottom of the ladder over the past few years. They always have the highest injuries lists e.g. Manly, Newcastle, Souths, roosters were all shot with injuries last year and underperformed majorly. The only exception to this rule is the storm. They have players like Cronk and smith who can make other players look like absolute stars.
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Isaac Luke played 21 games in 2015.
He still would have left, but instead of replacing him with a decent 1st grade hooker, we went down the cheap route.
Stewart, grant and McQueen may not sound great, but when you consider that tyrrell, Clark and Tyrell are now cemented in 1st grade because of their absence then their leaving begins to suck. When Stewart left, and with no-one brought in to replace , we could have replaced him with a decent average hard working lock. Instead we got Sam, because he does stuff no one else can, lost McQueen and grant, never replaced Luke with anyone decent, lost Walker and missed out on the many good centres who were available and that all would have been fine if we got 2014 Sam. But in the end his turned into a good hard working lock/prop of which there are dozens in the nrl. And now we still have no decent hooker, no star in the backline, and tyrrell and Clark are almost unopposed in 1st grade
 
Last edited:
Rabbits20

Rabbits20

Immortal
Messages
42,078
DiegoNT said:
Isaac Luke played 21 games in 2015.
He still would have left, but instead of replacing him with a decent 1st grade hooker, we went down the cheap route.
Stewart, grant and McQueen may not sound great, but when you consider that tyrrell, Clark and Tyrell are now cemented in 1st grade because of their absence then their leaving begins to suck. When Stewart left, and with no-one brought in to replace , we could have replaced him with a decent average hard working lock. Instead we got Sam, because he does stuff no one else can, lost McQueen and grant, never replaced Luke with anyone decent, lost Walker and missed out on the many good centres who were available and that all would have been fine if we got 2014 Sam. But in the end his turned into a good hard working lock/prop of which there are dozens in the nrl. And now we still have no decent hooker, no star in the backline, and tyrrell and Clark are almost unopposed in 1st grade
Click to expand...
Ah we have 2 very good hookers now!!!!!
 
DC_fan

DC_fan

Coach
Messages
11,980
Lets be honest Sam Burgess for one reason or another is not the same player he was in 2014. Not sure he ever will be again.
 
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