Calling Balmain Football Club Members..

[Sincas]

Balmain Football Club members would have received letters about a meeting to vote on a new rule that would effectively give the Board more security. I urge you to attend and vote against it like the STR team will be. In these volatile times when we are kept in the dark, we cannot be giving the Board more power and security. Enough is enough.

This is not stemming from any plans to get Balmain back in first grade or anything like that. So please Magpies fans take it easy. These people are meant to be representing us. Admittedly I haven't been very involved in the past, but I know that my feelings are not being carried out at the moment.

The STR team will be seeking some answers about the 6 games at Telstra and we will report back on whatever we are told.

But no matter what, I believe the Board should be kept on its toes and should be elected each year, not every 2nd year with only half the board elected each year. It effectively means it is difficult to remove the majority.

If you want more info, email me and I will tell you what I can. I don't know much myself but know that we can't be conned into this. Please spread the word to other members who do not frequent this forum or the net.

Thanks everyone.

 

[chunk]

I am a Football and Leagus Club Member and I hate all of this.

I am confused.....

How does it all work, did the represenatives from Balmain on the Wests Tigers board agree to the 6 games or was it the Balmain Football Club or Leagues Club Boards?

And isn't the Balmain Board backing STR?

Also I certainly do not want the Wests Tigers to go broke either.

If we go to Homebush does Tigerdome have better chance, that would make the pill easier to swallow.

Whatever has happened, it seems as though the deal at Telstra has already been done.

I think we deserve some answers

 

[Sincas]

We will be seeking some answers. But I am as confused as you and who knows what BS those answers will contain.

We have had support from the Balmain board. I find it hard to believe they didn't know about this Telstra Stadium move. We got slight warnings that it may happen but not this soon and we were encouraged to keep fighting to Stop the Rot. That is very disappointing.

The Leagues Club has nothing to do with anything from what I can tell.

Moving to Telstra and Tigerdome have nothing to do with each other either.

In fact I wouldn't hold my breath about TigerDome ever becoming a reality.

 

[chunk]

Thanks mate....hopefully it isn't as bad as it seems.

 

[Sincas]

Look guys, it has been brought to my attention that I may have jumped the gun about this Telstra stuff. I doubt it but hope so.

In any event I don't think that has anything to do with the vote we need to participate in. That vote concerns the granting of further security and tenure to the Board.

I also don't want to coerce people into voting just on what I have said. Please seek out the information the club is going to provide and vote based on what you have heard from both sides of the debate. Don't just take my word for it.. make an informed decision.

Cheers.

PS Fingers crossed I have jumped the gun on the Telstra debacle!

 

[yappy]

As a disinterested spectator I would caution against any move that increases the security of your board. I don't go as far in my criticisms of Wests board as some, but lack of accountability is a huge problem for us. If your board members are really doing a good job they should have no fear of being judged annually by the members. The advantages of incumbency are big enough as it is.

 

[Sincas]

Exactly Yappy. Thats all I'm saying too.

 

[gemtiger]

I can't believe what I've just read!!! :roll:

Too many of you complain that any organisations connected with Wests Tigers (including the respective Foundation clubs and Leagues clubs) are so unprofessional that a trained monkey could do a better job. Why do you think that might be? Because they are being distracted from the real task at hand by having to deal with costly time consuming events like annual elections.

Name me any company listed on the ASX 200 (the big players on the Australian stockmarket) who hold complete annual Board elections at their AGM? You probably can't, for the very simple reason that they DON'T! They have elections by rotations, with most terms consisting of a 2 yr duration, in some cases 3 yrs.

Why have they chosen this policy of corporate governance? Because they understand that for a company to be able to successfully plan and implement long term strategies, they need to have stability and commitment in their core decision making team ie. the Board of Directors!!!!!

Why should anyone care about making decisions which impact on a company's performance & survival 4 or 5 yrs down the track when they might not even be around in a yr's time? There is no sense of commitment to the good of the company instilled in a governance environment like that.

Here is a typical timeline for a new director's 1st year of office:
Month 0 to Month 5 - get acquainted with how company operates; become familiar with past, current & ongoing strategic, financial & operational issues; gain respect of fellow Board members
Month 6 to Month 9 - begin to contribute meaningfully to Board discussions and strategies
Month 9 to Month 12 - begin preparations to face the voting membership at upcoming AGM - not much time for planning & decision making discussions

There is then the very real possibility that they won't be re-elected and so the process begins all over again. Should this person even invest the time required to get up to speed knowing it could all be in vain - thus the ENTIRE year is a waste of time? Are you beginning to understand how much valuable time is lost because knowledge transferrance from one director to the other cannot be done and everything has to be relearnt?

Having longer terms of office negates this learning effect to a great degree and also motivates the person to commit to knowledge uptake.

It is seriously so not funny that in 2004 we are still having to run the entire Board through the membership gauntlet. I've been through enough elections to dread the barrage of propaganda that invades my letterbox. In some years I've received more for these elections than I have for real political elections!

It's time to stop wasting time and drag ourselves kicking and screaming into the 21st century so we can get on with the business of surviving the real issues, like the Pokies tax and Star City's continual erosion of our demographic patron base. These are the sorts of discussions the Board should be spending their time on and we as members should be demanding nothing less!

By the way, how many members actually cast their vote based on the actual or perceived performance of each director? Not very many, as most would have no idea what the directors have done in the past year, so saying that if a director performs during the year he'll have no re-election problems is a baseless argument

 

[Sincas]

I never said to not vote for the directors that are currently in.

If they have the best interests of the club in mind they will make decisions for the future whether they will be on the Board or not. Or are decisions only made so they can claim the glory if they come off?

Your points about learning about the company etc are valid. If the person in the position is new and has just started then I would be more inclined to give them a go.

Your post sounds very familiar. I am sure you don't have a vested interest though. :roll:

You haven't convinced me. I am still disappointed that we are in the situation we currently find ourselves in and while the Directors might be doing their best, I don't see why they can't be judged annually.

2 years is a long time in this game. If the directors can communicate a vision or plan for the future that we like, then I will be more than happy to vote them in each year.

 

[Sincas]

Too many of you complain that any organisations connected with Wests Tigers (including the respective Foundation clubs and Leagues clubs) are so unprofessional that a trained monkey could do a better job. Why do you think that might be? Because they are being distracted from the real task at hand by having to deal with costly time consuming events like annual elections.

I am unconvinced this takes up that much time and effort.

Name me any company listed on the ASX 200 (the big players on the Australian stockmarket) who hold complete annual Board elections at their AGM? You probably can't, for the very simple reason that they DON'T! They have elections by rotations, with most terms consisting of a 2 yr duration, in some cases 3 yrs.

We are far from a big player on the ASX. Our Board aren't made up of outstanding business people either.

Why should anyone care about making decisions which impact on a company's performance & survival 4 or 5 yrs down the track when they might not even be around in a yr's time?

Thats an easy one. They should care because they have a genuine love for the club and have the club's best interests ahead of their own glory.

I've been through enough elections to dread the barrage of propaganda that invades my letterbox. In some years I've received more for these elections than I have for real political elections!

Are you saying the current board doesn't or hasn't used propaganda?

By the way, how many members actually cast their vote based on the actual or perceived performance of each director? Not very many, as most would have no idea what the directors have done in the past year, so saying that if a director performs during the year he'll have no re-election problems is a baseless argument

Maybe those directors should start telling US what they have been doing. Would make a nice change. I've been lucky enough to discuss certain issues with some of these people first hand and appreciate that.

We'll agree to disagree on this one I think.

 

[Bald Tiger]

Gemtiger raises some very pertinent points. However we are not dealing with a major corporation on the Stock Exchange but a football club. Of course, the football club is a business but it is also a community organisation.
We have a board made up of elected directors and appointed, non-elected, business directors. Adopting the Board proposal would mean electing 3 Directors each year out of a total of 12.
Clearly this make it very hard for any group of members to effect any meaningful change on Board direction.
As football club members our main formal avenue of input is at the AGM. In the past few years the existence of our football club and the JV has been up for debate. What could be more important?
In the last week we had a decision take by the JV board to play six games at Telstra and only 3 at Leichhardt. As members we got no input - finding out on the radio. And now we continue to hear rumours about the merging of the Premier League sides.
Board members who make these decisions must be accountable to the members. Our only recourse is to remove Board members and vote for others if we dont approve of their decisions.
The electon of directors every two years may give the Board more security but it also makes them less accountable and it becomes harder for ordinary members to have their voice heard.
In any case, if Board members are doing a good job, they have nothing to be worried about at an AGM. In fact I would like to see an AGM where more Board members get up and make reports and let us know what they have been doing.
Finally I do not accept that it would take someone 5 months to get up to speed on the issues, especially if they are already a keen football club member. Nor do I recall being bombarded with literature prior to football club elections - and even if I was surely that is what democracy is about.

 

[Sincas]

I concur with Bald Tiger 100%

I have an Annual Performance Review were I get feedback and get to tell them what I have done for the year. I see no problems with getting the directors to do the same, unless of course you think Members don't deserve the right to judge and therefore pick the people that are meant to represent them.

 

[Mighty Tiger]

I concur with Bald Tiger 100%

I have an Annual Performance Review were I get feedback and get to tell them what I have done for the year. I see no problems with getting the directors to do the same, unless of course you think Members don't deserve the right to judge and therefore pick the people that are meant to represent them.

Couldn't agree more!!!!!

 

[Sincas]

Gemtiger,

My initial post was written at a time when I was extremely frustrated after the effort the STR team has put into this campaign only to be hammered with this news as our campaign had gained momentum so it was probably a touch dramatic. I still think this decision has hurt the campaign greatly and while I understand the reasoning behind it, I sincerely hope there is a plan for the future that will address the situation and provided the desired outcome.

BUT, I think we have made enough valid points in the ensuing posts to show we are not trying to cause unrest at the club. If anything I want the lines of communication to be opened further and can't see how a 2 year tenure will achieve that.

I have been fortunate enough to discuss these important issues with a board member and appreciate that opportunity. I would like to see all members get that opportunity at the meetings without having to seek it.

If they know elections are coming up I am hopeful they can set aside some time to reflect on the past 12 months and just as importantly the future. If they can provide me with hope that we are heading in the right direction i will happily vote them in each year.

I hope you understand where we are coming from as we all share a great passion for the club.. as I'm sure the Directors do too.

 

[gemtiger]

Sincas,

Appreciate the above reflection from you. Believe me, I understand how passionate you are about continuing to fight for Leichhardt & our right to watch our beloved Tigers play there well into the future and I hope you keep that passion alive until a decision is reached.

It is with this in mind that I think the 2 year tenure needs to be introduced so that the Board can spend their time devising strategies and exploring all options for keeping Leichhardt alive. In that way they wouldn't have to be coming back to the members every 12 months to say "Here's what we've done this past year" - they could just get out there and do it and you wouldn't need an annual report card from them because you could see the results of their activities.

You also haven't been able to explain to me why, if it's good enough for investors with HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS (sometimes MILLIONS) of dollars at stake in ASX 200 listed companies to not require annual Board elections, it's not good enough for us?

Compared to what they have at stake, we are putting in a small membership fee, yet we still demand annual elections! Perhaps it's a case of us not having the confidence in our ability to determine who are the best people to represent us on the Board - if that's true then let's get over it and give ourselves a pat on the back that we know who we want on the Board and allow them an opportunity to prove our decisions correct.

Trying to draw a parallel between the performance review of a Board and an annual performance review of an employee is taking a very long bow. The rules that apply in the world of executive management (the Board) and the workplace (you & me) are certainly not equitable and most likely never will be. To say that because you get reviewed annually means that the Board should be subjected to the same review process was probably the most fragile argument you put up in defence of your stance.

The propaganda I have received in recent times for elections has come from both sides of the fence - you have to fight fire with fire!

Bald Tiger,

I agree that we are still predominantly a community organisation, but that doesn't mean that we can't be ORGANISED and STRUCTURED and GOVERNED like a business!

And when was the last time that the members voted out the entire Board at an AGM? At most we have only ever voted out 3 or 4 current directors, so how will the proposal affect your ability to do that IF YOU SO CHOOSE?


In summary I would encourage everyone who is a member of the Football Club, especially those who are voting members, to go to Tuesday night's Information Evening where they will have the opportunity, as Sincas has had, to discuss any pressing issues or burning questions face to face with a member of the Board before casting their vote. As Sincas will attest to, they are very happy to talk to anyone who feels they need to know more about the issues before forming their opinion, so take advantage of the opportunity while you can.

 

[gr8_1]

Sincas,

Appreciate the above reflection from you. Believe me, I understand how passionate you are about continuing to fight for Leichhardt & our right to watch our beloved Tigers play there well into the future and I hope you keep that passion alive until a decision is reached.

It is with this in mind that I think the 2 year tenure needs to be introduced so that the Board can spend their time devising strategies and exploring all options for keeping Leichhardt alive. In that way they wouldn't have to be coming back to the members every 12 months to say "Here's what we've done this past year" - they could just get out there and do it and you wouldn't need an annual report card from them because you could see the results of their activities.

You also haven't been able to explain to me why, if it's good enough for investors with HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS (sometimes MILLIONS) of dollars at stake in ASX 200 listed companies to not require annual Board elections, it's not good enough for us?

Compared to what they have at stake, we are putting in a small membership fee, yet we still demand annual elections! Perhaps it's a case of us not having the confidence in our ability to determine who are the best people to represent us on the Board - if that's true then let's get over it and give ourselves a pat on the back that we know who we want on the Board and allow them an opportunity to prove our decisions correct.

Trying to draw a parallel between the performance review of a Board and an annual performance review of an employee is taking a very long bow. The rules that apply in the world of executive management (the Board) and the workplace (you & me) are certainly not equitable and most likely never will be. To say that because you get reviewed annually means that the Board should be subjected to the same review process was probably the most fragile argument you put up in defence of your stance.

The propaganda I have received in recent times for elections has come from both sides of the fence - you have to fight fire with fire!

Bald Tiger,

I agree that we are still predominantly a community organisation, but that doesn't mean that we can't be ORGANISED and STRUCTURED and GOVERNED like a business!

And when was the last time that the members voted out the entire Board at an AGM? At most we have only ever voted out 3 or 4 current directors, so how will the proposal affect your ability to do that IF YOU SO CHOOSE?


In summary I would encourage everyone who is a member of the Football Club, especially those who are voting members, to go to Tuesday night's Information Evening where they will have the opportunity, as Sincas has had, to discuss any pressing issues or burning questions face to face with a member of the Board before casting their vote. As Sincas will attest to, they are very happy to talk to anyone who feels they need to know more about the issues before forming their opinion, so take advantage of the opportunity while you can.

You sound like a politician. Full of sh!t.

 

[Bald Tiger]

Gemtiger
You make a strong case if we were part of a corporation whose aim was to make profits for its shareholders. But the point is we have a football club. And at the moment we have vital issues up for debate - the future of the JV, the existence of our home ground and now its seems the future of the Premier League side. Last week we found out on the radio that we were playing half the JV games at the soulless Telstra Stadium. Accountability from the Directors about the very existence of the club, that we all care about so passionately, is not too much to ask! Sorry but I am not prepared to give the Board a blank cheque for two years.

 

[Sincas]

Sorry but voting 3 out of 10 directors each year for the Balmain board is not good enough for me. And then those directors make up half of the joint venture we follow. We have little say as it is, so I'd like to keep that thanks.

I don't get the long bow comment. Are directors so high above us that they can't be judged annually but can be judged bi-annually?

As Bald Tiger said, there is a lot going on at the moment and 2 years is a long time in my books. Two years ago we had 6 games at Leichhardt. We now have 3 and the ground will probably die as a result. The Premier League team you love so much is the subject of rumours on this forum about its future too. I know you will says thats why its important to let them get on with it, but I disagree.

I hope your faith is justified. You seem happy to throw your eggs in one basket and check on them every 2 years. I'd rather check on them more regularly.

See you on Tuesday.

 

[Sincas]

Well Gemtiger your proxy along with 106 others were used to ensure the resolution was passed. I hope the club's phone bill didn't go up too much to achieve that result.

It was obviously no surprise but also good to see Bald Tiger get up and say his piece and express his views. I hope the Directors paid attention.

We can now elect 3 of 10 directors each year. Fantastic.

If we don't have OUR home ground and Premier League for you to write about in 2007 when we celebrate 100 years as a club, I know there are 15 people who can say they opposed this resolution... 2 years is a long time in this game.. I hope your faith in the Board is justified. Maybe now they can make all these important long term decisions they couldn't make before. I can't wait for the results..

 

[magpiemax]

Mate,don't be surprised if Gemtiger is either on the board or is at the very least related to someone who is on it and will almost certainly be punted soon. :roll:

Experience tell's me that when someone has actually gone to great length to get on a thread for the first time and has written that articulately on this matter he certainly was'nt just killing a little time. :roll:

Good luck with the election's Gemtiger. :lol: