change or persevere?

[ghoti]

Just picking up on the main essence of most threads after the last two games...but 90% of the forum wants widespread changes and the coaching staff will persevere, so what's the logical way forward? After setting up a squad for three months, it's a huge risk to made sweeping changes and introduce a poorly prepared new squad two games into the season without any preparation...so I do think the coaching staff would be right in persevering. But it doesn't seem to be working either. I think persevering with progressive changes in positional play is the right way forward to rescue the season..

Our main issues are:
- Poor kicking game
- Cramping ball runners out wide
- No ball playing threats in the middle
- Stagnation with forwards playing too many minutes
- Errors

Kicking game is hard to get around considering our lack of personnel who can do the job, though Murphy's kicking game is stronger than both Robson and Barba's. I'm hoping by mid-season he has the confidence to come through and maybe replace Robson at 7.

Ball runner issues has a lot to do with the halves, but also with Graham crabbing at the edges and Gallen stalling the sweeps by wanting to get involved as a pivot. To get around this, Gallen to move to the front row and Graham to come into the centre as a roving lock, which also helps the ball playing aspect from the middle. He won't handle the hit-up demands of a modern lock, but who says we have to fit the modern mould?

Issues with ball playing in the middle also has to do with Gordon standing too far wide and wanting to play as a traditional injected runner mould of fullback. That role in our squad, with guys like Lewis, Toops and Boogs, is filled by second rowers - and we need to play them angular, rather than the Gallen/Heighington/Graham hold and play style of backrower which isn't working. Barba needs to play like a modern day fullback, with the half (Robson or Murphy) working with Graham in the centre as the attacking hubs.

Forwards need to rotate often to keep the spark up, especially with the pace of the rucks. Considering this, I think the game this year is partially about mobile forwards, but there is just as much traction in having a few giants who are kept fresh to take advantage of tiring halves, hookers, etc. So that means Tagataese, the Fifita's, Gallen rotating around for 20 minute spells a piece.

And, as most have identified, Gordon isn't the fullback to do the job, but he's still the best one for it for now. Alternate with Holmes until he's ready to go to the back, and Gordon can fight out for the wing spot with Gagan, or shift to centres.

So my team for mid-season 2015:

1. V Holmes
2. M Gordon / J Gagan
3. R Leutele
4. G Beale / S Saulima
5. S Feki
6. B Barba
7. T Murphy
8. P Gallen
9. M Ennis
10. D Fifita
11. A Tupou
12. L Lewis
13. W Graham

14. J Robson
15. J Bukuya
16. A Fifita
17. S Tagataese

 

[Ads]

All great ideas but unfortunately Flanno would never make the changes. I think we are basically in a holding position until the club sacks him.

 

[carcharias]

He has already said Barba is playing shit.

Flanagan reckons Barba isn't running the ball enough and not giving himself enough room .
Fair assessment?

http://mobile.news.com.au/sport/nrl...against-brisbane/story-fndv2w3r-1227261684994

Flanagan also put val Holmes in like all and sundry were screaming for .
How'd he go?
I saw him play the ball worse than my 9 yr old .

Took a good catch.
Probably go to AFL

 

[Ads]

He has already said Barba is playing shit.

Flanagan reckons Barba isn't running the ball enough and not giving himself enough room .
Fair assessment?

http://mobile.news.com.au/sport/nrl...against-brisbane/story-fndv2w3r-1227261684994

Flanagan also put val Holmes in like all and sundry were screaming for .
How'd he go?
I saw him play the ball worse than my 9 yr old .

Took a good catch.
Probably go to AFL

Bit hard to get any room out there when we play sideways. Barba at 6 is a failure, the sooner he is fullback the better we go.

Val did no worse than Brown last week and thats the point. Brown wouldnt have done any better, yet out of the two only Val can pull something out of nothing.

 

[southland]

Just picking up on the main essence of most threads after the last two games...but 90% of the forum wants widespread changes and the coaching staff will persevere, so what's the logical way forward? After setting up a squad for three months, it's a huge risk to made sweeping changes and introduce a poorly prepared new squad two games into the season without any preparation...so I do think the coaching staff would be right in persevering. But it doesn't seem to be working either. I think persevering with progressive changes in positional play is the right way forward to rescue the season..

Our main issues are:
- Poor kicking game
- Cramping ball runners out wide
- No ball playing threats in the middle
- Stagnation with forwards playing too many minutes
- Errors

Kicking game is hard to get around considering our lack of personnel who can do the job, though Murphy's kicking game is stronger than both Robson and Barba's. I'm hoping by mid-season he has the confidence to come through and maybe replace Robson at 7.

Ball runner issues has a lot to do with the halves, but also with Graham crabbing at the edges and Gallen stalling the sweeps by wanting to get involved as a pivot. To get around this, Gallen to move to the front row and Graham to come into the centre as a roving lock, which also helps the ball playing aspect from the middle. He won't handle the hit-up demands of a modern lock, but who says we have to fit the modern mould?

Issues with ball playing in the middle also has to do with Gordon standing too far wide and wanting to play as a traditional injected runner mould of fullback. That role in our squad, with guys like Lewis, Toops and Boogs, is filled by second rowers - and we need to play them angular, rather than the Gallen/Heighington/Graham hold and play style of backrower which isn't working. Barba needs to play like a modern day fullback, with the half (Robson or Murphy) working with Graham in the centre as the attacking hubs.

Forwards need to rotate often to keep the spark up, especially with the pace of the rucks. Considering this, I think the game this year is partially about mobile forwards, but there is just as much traction in having a few giants who are kept fresh to take advantage of tiring halves, hookers, etc. So that means Tagataese, the Fifita's, Gallen rotating around for 20 minute spells a piece.

And, as most have identified, Gordon isn't the fullback to do the job, but he's still the best one for it for now. Alternate with Holmes until he's ready to go to the back, and Gordon can fight out for the wing spot with Gagan, or shift to centres.

So my team for mid-season 2015:

1. V Holmes
2. M Gordon / J Gagan
3. R Leutele
4. G Beale / S Saulima
5. S Feki
6. B Barba
7. T Murphy
8. P Gallen
9. M Ennis
10. D Fifita
11. A Tupou
12. L Lewis
13. W Graham

14. J Robson
15. J Bukuya
16. A Fifita
17. S Tagataese

AGREE wholeheartedly with yr assessments Ghoti. However I would give Feki a go in the centre spot and try Saulimi/Gagan as winger. Holmes and Gordon rotating fullback and winger is a no brainer.

AGREE: Gal to prop. Better managed Prop rotations. Graham to lock - so he stops running Leutele and Feki out of the game.

Fingers crossed Murphy gets the support and training he needs to step up because we critically need a kicker in play. Barba is a confidence player and we need to relieve him of any pressure to kick. Let him kick when he is good and ready i.e. confident with himself and those around him.

Standby for Rd 3. and for none of this to happen...

 

[carcharias]

Plenty of nothin for him to pull something out on Friday night.

I actually think the team looked better
I also think the broncos defended extremely well on their line.
We were very unlucky
They were too lucky from two fluke/arsey tries

I even thought we could have got a penalty try or at least had a broncos player binned.
Dunno what the ruling was...but it looked almost a sure thing.

 

[millersnose]

He has already said Barba is playing shit.

Flanagan reckons Barba isn't running the ball enough and not giving himself enough room .
Fair assessment?

http://mobile.news.com.au/sport/nrl...against-brisbane/story-fndv2w3r-1227261684994

Flanagan also put val Holmes in like all and sundry were screaming for .
How'd he go?
I saw him play the ball worse than my 9 yr old .

Took a good catch.
Probably go to AFL

Yep

I was under the impression this was one of the answers because last weeks winger dropped a bomb

 

[bad boy bubby]

Yep

I was under the impression this was one of the answers because last weeks winger dropped a bomb

It will be talked up that Holmes would have scored a try at the end. I wish I had the crystal ball to see that.
It will not be talked of the fact that the two players who missed that tackle off the tap which resulted in a try and subsequently the game.

 

[Surely]

Just picking up on the main essence of most threads after the last two games...but 90% of the forum wants widespread changes and the coaching staff will persevere, so what's the logical way forward? After setting up a squad for three months, it's a huge risk to made sweeping changes and introduce a poorly prepared new squad two games into the season without any preparation...so I do think the coaching staff would be right in persevering. But it doesn't seem to be working either. I think persevering with progressive changes in positional play is the right way forward to rescue the season..

Our main issues are:
- Poor kicking game
- Cramping ball runners out wide
- No ball playing threats in the middle
- Stagnation with forwards playing too many minutes
- Errors

Kicking game is hard to get around considering our lack of personnel who can do the job, though Murphy's kicking game is stronger than both Robson and Barba's. I'm hoping by mid-season he has the confidence to come through and maybe replace Robson at 7.

Ball runner issues has a lot to do with the halves, but also with Graham crabbing at the edges and Gallen stalling the sweeps by wanting to get involved as a pivot. To get around this, Gallen to move to the front row and Graham to come into the centre as a roving lock, which also helps the ball playing aspect from the middle. He won't handle the hit-up demands of a modern lock, but who says we have to fit the modern mould?

Issues with ball playing in the middle also has to do with Gordon standing too far wide and wanting to play as a traditional injected runner mould of fullback. That role in our squad, with guys like Lewis, Toops and Boogs, is filled by second rowers - and we need to play them angular, rather than the Gallen/Heighington/Graham hold and play style of backrower which isn't working. Barba needs to play like a modern day fullback, with the half (Robson or Murphy) working with Graham in the centre as the attacking hubs.

Forwards need to rotate often to keep the spark up, especially with the pace of the rucks. Considering this, I think the game this year is partially about mobile forwards, but there is just as much traction in having a few giants who are kept fresh to take advantage of tiring halves, hookers, etc. So that means Tagataese, the Fifita's, Gallen rotating around for 20 minute spells a piece.

And, as most have identified, Gordon isn't the fullback to do the job, but he's still the best one for it for now. Alternate with Holmes until he's ready to go to the back, and Gordon can fight out for the wing spot with Gagan, or shift to centres.

So my team for mid-season 2015:

1. V Holmes
2. M Gordon / J Gagan
3. R Leutele
4. G Beale / S Saulima
5. S Feki
6. B Barba
7. T Murphy
8. P Gallen
9. M Ennis
10. D Fifita
11. A Tupou
12. L Lewis
13. W Graham

14. J Robson
15. J Bukuya
16. A Fifita
17. S Tagataese

1. Gordon
2. Gagan
3. Bird
4. Feki
5. Holmes


Beale is shyte leutele been here a while now is what he is can't have him above the promising youngsters and feki is better so gets the centre spot

 

[Snoop Shark]

For the limited opportunities Holmes got on Friday night he already was an improvement on having Brown out there. Beale did him no favours out there what so ever.

Watching other teams play its clear fullbacks are playing more of a play maker role linking with outside backs to create oppurtunities. Penrith and in particular Moylan are a perfect example of this.

Flash is offering SFA for us at the back. We need Val to be there sooner rather than later. Not sure where that leaves flash maybe on the wing or even in the centres if he has a dummy spit. Flash is a great hole runner and I don't see how he couldn't do a better job than Beale. That would leave the other centre spot in my opinion to Jack Bird with Gagan and Feki playing on the wings.

1. Holmes
2. Gagan
3. Gordon
4. Bird
5. Feki
6. Barba
7. Murphy(purely for his kicking game)

14. Robbo

It's a massive reshuffle to our backline but if we are any chance of doing anything this year it needs to happen

 

[Card Shark]

the broncos defended extremely well on their line.

Please remind me which team they had to stop from scoring?

 

[bluey]

Gordon cannot pass properly at 1 so what chance has he got at 3, if Holmes replaces him he has to go to the wing.

 

[Card Shark]

Persevere with a few strategic positional changes i.e. Get players in their best positions

Gordon has played his best football (for Penrith) on the wing;
Barba has played his best football at fullback;
Gal plays best like a prop, when he's not interrupting the ball play. Put him there, 50 mins a game;

 

[Sharkbite]

Like most Sharks supporters I am extremely frustrated at the "style " of play we have been producing for some time now. Whilst I realise ball control & set completions are important it is also important what you do with the ball when you have it. Surely our coaching staff don't seriously believe that 5 one out hit-ups and a weak kick at the end is the recipe for success. I could accept this safety first approach with some of previous squads, but I believe we have a squad this year to be a lot more threatening than we have shown. We have no forward support play, our edge runners don't run any effective lines ( cramping our backs ), no decoy runners, a poor kicking game, the list goes on.
We have had these issues for some seasons now and while I agree that we need some positional changes we must first change our philosophy of how we want to play the game. Most supporters I believe would be prepared to cop a loss if our team were at least creating opportunities and having a crack. We have a squad with points in them but I think our basic approach of " the Grind " is very outdated. The game is evolving rapidly and what may have worked 5 years ago will not cut it today. Lets "not die with the music in us ".

 

[Snoop Shark]

Gordon cannot pass properly at 1 so what chance has he got at 3, if Holmes replaces him he has to go to the wing.

It's more so for his hole running having the likes of val and barba putting him in the clear

 

[Since 73]

Our problems.....?

All stem from two areas:

1. The training paddock. Our 'style' of play - or styleless - is not conducive to scoring points. It is flat, repetitive, safe and boring to watch. And the lack of points speaks for itself.

2. Headspace/attitude. Whatever has gone on there for the past 3-4 years has guys like TC, Gall and Fifita with attitudes that are so detrimental that there can be little succes as successful clubs have egos in check when it comes to the crunch.

Both problems stem from one element - the coach

Potter. Now there's a name.
Took no bullshit from big heads Farah and marshal. Unfortunately the board would not back him to their detriment.
He gave young blokes a chance in the halves of all places.
His forwards aimed up and played tough - he demanded it.

And the cream on the cake.....
His team played football.

 

[Since 73]

We have big heads.
We have young guys demanding a go.
We have the pack.
We don't play football.

We just need the coach.

 

[ghoti]

Like most Sharks supporters I am extremely frustrated at the "style " of play we have been producing for some time now. Whilst I realise ball control & set completions are important it is also important what you do with the ball when you have it. Surely our coaching staff don't seriously believe that 5 one out hit-ups and a weak kick at the end is the recipe for success. I could accept this safety first approach with some of previous squads, but I believe we have a squad this year to be a lot more threatening than we have shown. We have no forward support play, our edge runners don't run any effective lines ( cramping our backs ), no decoy runners, a poor kicking game, the list goes on.
We have had these issues for some seasons now and while I agree that we need some positional changes we must first change our philosophy of how we want to play the game. Most supporters I believe would be prepared to cop a loss if our team were at least creating opportunities and having a crack. We have a squad with points in them but I think our basic approach of " the Grind " is very outdated. The game is evolving rapidly and what may have worked 5 years ago will not cut it today. Lets "not die with the music in us ".

I don't mind us playing boring if we're winning games, but you're right - the idea of the grind is a perfectly acceptable way to play the game if your squad is suited to that. our squad was in 2002 and 2008 which was why we went so well both of those years. but the grind is useless if your arm wrestlers aren't up to the task.

i would say that THE most important part of being successful with the grinding type gameplan (aside from the obviously faultless defence) is your kicking game, as it's purely territory and possession. Nobody can win the grind if you can't dump the ball into the opposition's quarter at the end of every set.

the only way the squad in its current guise (without a kicking game) can be effective is through ball running...and we have guys like Fifita, Gallen, Lewis, Bukuya, Tupou who can create good go forward, and guys like Barba, Gordon, etc who are quick enough to find the gaps.

it's all well and good for Flanno to say we want to get in the grind, but what's the point when you can neither trust your defence nor gain the field position?

 

[ghoti]

Potter. Now there's a name.
Took no bullshit from big heads Farah and marshal. Unfortunately the board would not back him to their detriment.
He gave young blokes a chance in the halves of all places.
His forwards aimed up and played tough - he demanded it.

And the cream on the cake.....
His team played football.

Potter would do quite well with our squad I reckon... he was pretty hard done by at Wests, but didn't seem to have the respect of the players. Also very worried that Farah was adamant he couldn't coach - whether this was a personal thing or not, you gotta wonder

 

[carcharias]

Please remind me which team they had to stop from scoring?

Yeah

But still
Two legit chances we had they scrambled very well to stop us scoring.