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Charity Shield 2021

Inisai Toga

Juniors
Messages
851
The only surprising thing about yesterdays game for me was the response from Saints fans. Souths are unbelievably potent out wide, premiership favourites and given 75% of possession; we are arguably the worst defensive side out wide in the comp, trying to adapt with heavy training schedule new coach, new positions and new defensive structures.

Change WONT happen in an off-season with this squad. We’ll get better.....but it certainly won’t be an instant process. Least we’ve played the best and know how far we are behind.......
 

brissiedragon

Juniors
Messages
248
The only surprising thing about yesterdays game for me was the response from Saints fans. Souths are unbelievably potent out wide, premiership favourites and given 75% of possession; we are arguably the worst defensive side out wide in the comp, trying to adapt with heavy training schedule new coach, new positions and new defensive structures.

Change WONT happen in an off-season with this squad. We’ll get better.....but it certainly won’t be an instant process. Least we’ve played the best and know how far we are behind.......

Didnt look like new defensive structures to me. Same old take one step forward plant the feet then shuffle backwards when the other team attacks, Souths on the other hand had great defensive line speed bordering on offside every tackle and were hitting us at the line of scrimmage. Why we cant move up quickly and hit teams hard is beyond me. Walker and co were having a field day running at our so called defence. I was wondering during the game if McNoidea was still in the building somewhere, our defence looked exactly like the last 7 years.
I just dont understand why coaches dont copy defensive structures used by teams like Storm and Roosters.
 
Messages
4,637
Didnt look like new defensive structures to me. Same old take one step forward plant the feet then shuffle backwards when the other team attacks, Souths on the other hand had great defensive line speed bordering on offside every tackle and were hitting us at the line of scrimmage. Why we cant move up quickly and hit teams hard is beyond me. Walker and co were having a field day running at our so called defence. I was wondering during the game if McNoidea was still in the building somewhere, our defence looked exactly like the last 7 years.
I just dont understand why coaches dont copy defensive structures used by teams like Storm and Roosters.
I guess muscle memory is hard to overcome.
 

Inisai Toga

Juniors
Messages
851
Didnt look like new defensive structures to me. Same old take one step forward plant the feet then shuffle backwards when the other team attacks, Souths on the other hand had great defensive line speed bordering on offside every tackle and were hitting us at the line of scrimmage. Why we cant move up quickly and hit teams hard is beyond me. Walker and co were having a field day running at our so called defence. I was wondering during the game if McNoidea was still in the building somewhere, our defence looked exactly like the last 7 years.
I just dont understand why coaches dont copy defensive structures used by teams like Storm and Roosters.
Probably do, they just don’t have a) the talent to deliver b) the coaching talent (not us) to teach it.

Bennett did it with us but he had Cooper and Scott. Robinson admitted it took a long time to execute it and Souths blew them away last year. Were short in talent, time and confidence to expect quick change (unfortunately)...
 
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Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
95,491
Media ended the signing of Folau..He had the right to express his views . Right or wrong.There a lot of 2 face people
And people have the right to call him out for his hate speech. That's being honest about it, which is the opposite of being two faced.

And anyone who thinks Folau would have made a difference is deluding themselves.

He's over the hill, hasn't played NRL for 10 years, only looks good against paper thin defence, has some serious defensive issues of his own and half the supporter base don't want him. But by all means, feel free to dream the dream.
 

LINESPEED

Juniors
Messages
1,551
I guess muscle memory is hard to overcome.

Some simple instructions like:

Linespeed

Hit the line hard - consistently

Look for an offload

Backup

Make no errors (as per Bennett’s sole instruction to Latrell)

Be prepared to bleed for the Club FFS

The above should be bread & butter offerings from any forward?

So, our longest serving forwards must be indicative of the malaise?

Lazy & inconsistent with an air of entitlement borne of the old mateship-selection-without-form-or-consistency syndrome.

Pauly showed most passion cuddling the oppostion post-match

Where’s the Rooster’s, Raiders’, Storm or AllBlack shame-on-your-knees in defeat
guttedness?



A stint in CC for them -
As their languor rubs off on the recruits & kids

Look how keen the Rabbit reserves were.

Let’s hope Hook’s not looking for the old support base from the team elders
 
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R&WTILLIDIE

Bench
Messages
3,524
The only surprising thing about yesterdays game for me was the response from Saints fans. Souths are unbelievably potent out wide, premiership favourites and given 75% of possession; we are arguably the worst defensive side out wide in the comp, trying to adapt with heavy training schedule new coach, new positions and new defensive structures.

Change WONT happen in an off-season with this squad. We’ll get better.....but it certainly won’t be an instant process. Least we’ve played the best and know how far we are behind.......
Yeah we do know how far behind we are...we’re so far behind, we can’t even see Souffs
 

redandwhite4evr

Juniors
Messages
1,319
1. We are in rebuilding mode
2. The Coaching staff are still evaluating the squad
3. Souths are a top 4 side
4. We are short a couple of quality forwards
5. The backline has a lot of potential but it will take time to gel
6. It’s the first grade squad’s first game
7. The Coaching staff got a lot more out of this game than we did as fans
8. Sullivan will replace Norman by mid season
9. Griffin did say the training has focused on building and peaking as the season progresses
10. The premiership is not decided in February

Team for first round:

Dufty
Ravalawa
Lomax
Bird
Ramsey
Sullivan
Hunt
Merrin
Sims
Fuimono
Lawrie
Macca
Vaughan

Faamasili
Kerr
Ellis
Wyshart

Like the starting backline for Round 1- not sure about the forwards- Didn't see that much from Merrin and Fui in particular to justify their inclusion. I'll cut Macca some slack because he's still adjusting but he was pretty ordinary and didn't offer much by way of running threat from dummy half. if no improvement soon, Hunt will have to move in to rake with Clune and Sullivan to the halves.

The five things I took from the match were:-
1. Souths spine is world class. It was men against boys out there but, to be fair, every team in the NRL would have struggled against the Souths attack yesterday.
2. Corey Norman is still......Corey Norman. The arrival of Hook hasn't changed his obvious shortcomings. He got us a six again with a decent grubber... and that was it. A wild pass metres over the head of Pereira and after that, he wasn't sighted off Nobby's in attack. Hook has to swallow his pride and declare him a lost cause. Sullivan must be 5/8.
3. Souths are masters at moving the ball at speed and defensive systems need to match that speed in direct defence. As others have said, we were guilty of sliding, ball watching and being mesmerised- which thimble will the pea end up under?
4. Paul Vaughan is the nearest thing we have to a rep forward these days. Lawrie runs hard but the rest are average and I was particularly disappointed with Jackson Ford.
5.Jack Bird was a pleasant surprise. It's early days and it could still go horribly wrong with more injury, but he looked strong in attack and defence. Way better than the little I saw of Wiliame. Feagai was also strong.
 

thebigredv

Bench
Messages
3,351
Wait till JDB comes back he will stiffen our defensive line. Should back for the Anzac match v Roosters.


Mate I actually do think he will play out of skin if he returns but this is classic Dragon fan mentality right now.

1. We HAVE been waiting 2 years
2. We have no control over his fate
3. The Roosters will wipe the floor with us with or without him lining up as has been proven too many times in recent history
 

brissiedragon

Juniors
Messages
248
Probably do, they just don’t have a) the talent to deliver b) the coaching talent (not us) to teach it.

Bennett did it with us but he had Cooper and Scott. Robinson admitted it took a long time to execute it and Souths blew them away last year. Were short in talent, time and confidence to expect quick change (unfortunately)...



URL link above to vision to highlight my point re lack of defensive line speed... Our defence started at 35m out, one player moved 1 metre forward and the rest stayed still. Every defensive player thereafter was going backwards. Could be a very long season...
 

hewi

Juniors
Messages
2,496


URL link above to vision to highlight my point re lack of defensive line speed... Our defence started at 35m out, one player moved 1 metre forward and the rest stayed still. Every defensive player thereafter was going backwards. Could be a very long season...


Same as it’s been for the last 8 or so years, however I thought the back pedaling by the outside backs was as bad as anything we have seen. They were lost.
 

Inisai Toga

Juniors
Messages
851


URL link above to vision to highlight my point re lack of defensive line speed... Our defence started at 35m out, one player moved 1 metre forward and the rest stayed still. Every defensive player thereafter was going backwards. Could be a very long season...
I agree with you mate 100%. There are are arguably 3 blokes that don’t even look they have the knowledge or technique to defend in that example. Even with Souths good ball movement the scrambling defence should have stopped the try. My point is that some off the blokes in that video are still ‘learning, the commitment the toughness, positioning and the time required to develop good defence (Cooper, C Mortimer, G Quinn, R Ferguson, etc etc)

I know it’s a joke to think that some first graders can’t tackle but many can’t; particularly outside backs. This is the challenge ahead. Bennett know this, he’s got a couple of shit defenders in his own backline. My point is it’s not a knowledge thing it’s a skill and skills take time.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
13,491
Some simple instructions like:

Linespeed

Hit the line hard - consistently

Look for an offload

Backup

Make no errors (as per Bennett’s sole instruction to Latrell)

Be prepared to bleed for the Club FFS

The above should be bread & butter offerings from any forward?

So, our longest serving forwards must be indicative of the malaise?

Lazy & inconsistent with an air of entitlement borne of the old mateship-selection-without-form-or-consistency syndrome.

Pauly showed most passion cuddling the oppostion post-match

Where’s the Rooster’s, Raiders’s, Storm or AllBlack shame-on-your-knees in defeat
guttedness?



A stint in CC for them -
As their languor rubs off on the recruits & kids

Look how keen the Rabbit reserves were.

Let’s hope Hook’s not looking for the old support base from the team elders
Your comment regarding Vaughan is indeed valid.
If only the passion he showed embracing the South’s players typified his effort in the game.
Looks like he is still in the coffee shop.
 

thebigredv

Bench
Messages
3,351
That the bunnies beat us yesterday is no surprise to anyone but with a salary cap in place a team should not be able to toy with another the way they did to us.

Bunnies know how to recruit with Bennett at the helm. He didn't even need to coach yesterday. His 2nd string bunch of players had our measure. Yikes!! Please tell me this is Hunt, Norman and Vaughan's last year!!
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
95,491


URL link above to vision to highlight my point re lack of defensive line speed... Our defence started at 35m out, one player moved 1 metre forward and the rest stayed still. Every defensive player thereafter was going backwards. Could be a very long season...
Totally agree.

Pretty much happened right in front of me.

It illustrates the defensive problem perfectly, and we kept seeing it repeat itself throughout the game. Our forwards allowing Souths far too much width in attack, allowing them to come to us and then we're backpeddling and sliding. Souths on the other exploited it and charged at the 'defence' together. By the time they were within 15 metres, the goal line is virtually open, after that it only takes one half decent offload.

But wind it back to halfway and the middle of the field, and the start of the movement. Look at the Souths' formation and Saints' 'formation'. Look at our guys standing flat footed and not interested. That's where the try was set up.
 

be55

Juniors
Messages
268


URL link above to vision to highlight my point re lack of defensive line speed... Our defence started at 35m out, one player moved 1 metre forward and the rest stayed still. Every defensive player thereafter was going backwards. Could be a very long season...
Makes my blood boil watching this footage...

15 minutes into the game and that is the kind of defensive effort they are putting in...

At least Lawrie tries to get off the line and put some pressure on the attack but Sims just stands there and doesn't even attempt to go with him...

This allows Reynolds to go right into the line and set up the outside backs...

Sim's job is to get off that line and put pressure on the playmaker...

Tariq is standing flat footed for Christ's sake and looks like he's out for a walk in the park on a Saturday afternoon...

Surely this guy would understand that the team needs him to stand up with the loss of Frizzell and McInnes and he would want to be some kind of leader amongst the pack and he comes up with a defensive effort like that 15 minutes in...

Disgraceful...

This guy is a shadow of the guy who terrorized Konrad Hurrell a few years back in Toowoomba when he made Konrad his own personal tackling bag and turned him into road kill...

If our team keeps defending like this it's going to be a long and painful year for all of us...
 

Inisai Toga

Juniors
Messages
851
Makes my blood boil watching this footage...

15 minutes into the game and that is the kind of defensive effort they are putting in...

At least Lawrie tries to get off the line and put some pressure on the attack but Sims just stands there and doesn't even attempt to go with him...

This allows Reynolds to go right into the line and set up the outside backs...

Sim's job is to get off that line and put pressure on the playmaker...

Tariq is standing flat footed for Christ's sake and looks like he's out for a walk in the park on a Saturday afternoon...

Surely this guy would understand that the team needs him to stand up with the loss of Frizzell and McInnes and he would want to be some kind of leader amongst the pack and he comes up with a defensive effort like that 15 minutes in...

Disgraceful...

This guy is a shadow of the guy who terrorized Konrad Hurrell a few years back in Toowoomba when he made Konrad his own personal tackling bag and turned him into road kill...

If our team keeps defending like this it's going to be a long and painful year for all of us...
Agree, but even after Simms failure to do this Norman should have come up and slid across. Bird, also should have also just stayed on his man yet when came in it then created the overlap. 3 mistakes! Souths execute this move to precision and can do it in their sleep. Bird will get better with timing but Simms and Norman..........it’s a worry!
 
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