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Comparing Ranieri to Mourinho

Eddie.

Bench
Messages
4,188
God the dribble Just continues on other threads regarding Chelsea…

Claudio Ranieri was a nice man. People enjoyed the way he conducted himself and the manner in which his character developed. The English media loved him because he at first he didn't understnas a word of English and they made fun of him. He was always good for some ridiculous quote where he would relate art or wild animals to a football match or something totally warped.

Most REAL Chelsea fans were not sad to see Ranieri sacked. Most HALF Assed Chelsea fans or FANS OF OTHER CLUBS were sad to see Ranieri go. Why were these people sad? – Because he was entertaining, not because of his managerial ability. When you go through Ranieri’s career it is hard to find any significant achievements despite having managed some big clubs. In his 4 seasons at Chelsea he managed to deliver the club nothing in the silverware department. Go on the Chelsea Forum and see what kind of reaction you get when you say Ranieri should not of been shown the door....

Go On...

Most Real Chelsea supporters refer to Ranieri as the “Clown”. He was mockingly known as the “Tinkerman” because of his horrible fascination with making 6 or 7 changes for each and every game or completely changing the shape of the team mid match. This led to some absolutely disastrous performance by Chelsea and horrendous inconsistency. Something that has quickly disappeared under the structured and disciplined approach of our new manager.

Perhaps the most famous of a long line of Ranieri clangers occurred in the CL Semi Final against Monoco. Chelsea had done well to hold Monaco to 1-1 away from Home with 10 minutes to go. So you’ve got the away goal, you baton down the hatches and wrap up things at home?? Not according to Ranieri. He took a defender off and bought on a 3rd striker in Hasselbaink. Chelsea capitulated with 3 at the back and ended up losing the Match 3-1 and losing the tie. Ranieri often out smarted himself. At 1-1 at Old Trafford in a match be put Jesper Gronkear a incredibly frustrating left winger, into the back line. Chelsea capitulated again. Players on the whole liked Ranieri as a person but not as a manager. Hasselbaink said so in his book. Players were often scoring a hat trick one week and finding themselves out of the side the next. He had the resources to win at Chelsea and he never came close.

Now lets look at Mourinho. Jose has not lost a home match in 4 seasons of league football at Porto and Chelsea. He has won 4 consecutive league titles. I Believe he has won between 8-10 trophies in the last 4 seasons including the Portuguese Premiership and Cup, The English Premier League, The Champions League, the UEFA Cup and the League Cup. This is what can be referred to as success. A proven winner.

You want to go on about signings? Yeah, sure Ranieri bought some good players to the club. He also bought some bad players who were a bad influence on team spirit and had Chelsea looking more like Real Madrid in that regard. Mutu and Veron were destabilising characters.

The first thing Mourinho did was take John Terry captain and get rid of these players. Sure you might laugh at the price of Drogba but I can tell you he is a valuable contributor. He has a dog of a first touch and fluffs some chances, but he works hard for the team, he celebrates others success as much as his own and he doesn’t whinge when left out. Mourinho brings in players who he belives will fit into the team spirit and not after personal glory. Players such as Carvalho, Ferreria and Essien may not be world beaters but they are hard workers and they contribute well to the team. Ranieri bought Joe Cole but it was Mourinho who has got the best out of him. Cole was a selfish player who was wildly inconsistent under Ranieri. Under Mourinho he has become a world class midfielder who sets up the play as well as defends for the team.
 

InsaneShark

Juniors
Messages
66
In basic:

You could put a stuffed toy as the manager of Chelsea and they would still win. I belive Mourinho is a brilliant manager, but im sure the likes of Alan Pardew would have as much success if he had his own Russian money bag.
 

Eddie.

Bench
Messages
4,188
InsaneShark said:
In basic:

You could put a stuffed toy as the manager of Chelsea and they would still win. I belive Mourinho is a brilliant manager, but im sure the likes of Alan Pardew would have as much success if he had his own Russian money bag.

Why haven't Madrid won anything for 3 seasons?

Why didn't Raneri win the league with Abramovich? - and don't give me that first season rubbish.

Sure Any manager could get Chelsea into the top 3 or 4 every year. But to say any old coach would have the same success rate as Mourinho at Chelsea is kidding themselves. Ranieri proved it.
 

InsaneShark

Juniors
Messages
66
Im not holding my breath just yet. From what it seem's Mother Russia seems to want to bring in a'1001 world class players, it now even seems Rudd van Nistelrooy and Shevcenko could both be going to Chelsea. They will either be the most ridiculously purchased team (even more than Real M) in history and be highly successful or they will too suffer from too many Chiefs and not enough Indians syndrom.
Real Madrid have had high quality managers, it was merely the players lacking the commitment. Not to mention the board issues that Real Madrid have had and continue to have.

I fear that if old man Russian go's too spastic on the transfers it will lessen the team.

Personally i dont really care, im proud of my Hammers. We produce alot of our own players and also have the best performing "English" team in the premiership on stat's. By no means are they world class, but fingers crossed within 10years they can be a top 6 team and consitantly in Europe.

But with the likes of "open cheque book Chelsea" around, they will probley just buy Anton F and Nigel Reo-C off us in the next few seasons, then just sit them on the bench.
 

Eddie.

Bench
Messages
4,188
Pensacola Q.C said:
500 million dollar loss. Pwned by Rijjkard. Nuff said.:lol:

Chelsea beat Barcelona in 2005
Barcelona beat Chelsea in 2006

Both managers have won the Champions league.

Cant see the "ownage" to be honest but full marks for trying.
 

The Devil

Bench
Messages
2,515
Eddie. said:
Why haven't Madrid won anything for 3 seasons?

Maybe they fact that Real Madrid have NO idea when it comes to talent. Forking out a huge contract for Sergio Ramos, whilst rejecting both Ronaldinho and Eto'o who go on to become star players for Barca.

Eddie. said:
Why didn't Raneri win the league with Abramovich? - and don't give me that first season rubbish.

Scott Parker, Hernan Crespo, Wayne Bridge, Damien Duff, Geremi, Glen Johnson, Alexi Smertin, Adrian Mutu, Joe Cole, Juan Sebastien Veron AND Makelele are all bought for your team for the upcoming season..

Not only that, but the pressure to play most if not all players in the team will no doubt place immense pressure on the manager. Try to get a team with a lot of new faces to gel in one season. Nearly impossible. If you don't play a player your rich billionaire backer get mad, should you play a player who is out of form or not suited to the team, the team is dragged down.

lose-lose situation for Ranieri there.

Mourinho is still yet to win the Champions League with Chelsea, something that Ranieri could not achieve.. i don't see Jose being sacked
 
Messages
13,812
despite my obvious dislike for chelsea and jose, i am man enough to admit that Jose would be one of the top 4 managers in the world. Capello, Hiddink, Rijkaard & Mourinho are the 4 best coaches in the world IMO. If you dont agree with me on Jose, then think back to FC Porto.
 

hybrid_tiger

Coach
Messages
11,684
No doubts Mourinho is an excellent manager, but his transfer policy is questionable at best.

Not many of the players he has signed have been a success.
 

aqua_duck

Coach
Messages
18,628
hybrid_tiger said:
No doubts Mourinho is an excellent manager, but his transfer policy is questionable at best.

Not many of the players he has signed have been a success.
I agree 100%, I think I was the one who brought up the topic. I never said Ranieri was a better manager than Jose, all I said was given a little time I think Ranieri would have won the league as well with the budget given. I mean Eddie, if you have played any sport at all you'd know that you can't just bring together a whole new bunch of players and expect them to gel straight away, especially 12 world class players who all expect 1st team football. Whilst Eddie says that Essien, Drogba, Carvalho and Paulo Ferreira aren't world beaters but are solid and contribute well, mate thats the very least you;d expect considering they cost a combined 85 or so million pounds, not to mention SWP who would bring the Carvalho transfer total to over 100 million pounds. I mean you can't tell me that these days you can't get a better bunch of 5 players who'll contribute to your team for 100 mil. Whilst Mourinho is a much better tactician than Ranieri I think his transfer policy and player judgement leave alot to be desired, esepcially compared to someone like Arsene Wenger.
 

The Devil

Bench
Messages
2,515
pennywisealfie said:
despite my obvious dislike for chelsea and jose, i am man enough to admit that Jose would be one of the top 4 managers in the world. Capello, Hiddink, Rijkaard & Mourinho are the 4 best coaches in the world IMO. If you dont agree with me on Jose, then think back to FC Porto.

Even at FC Porto they had a relatively strong squad, whom Mourinho had been in charge with for a few season. I'm not saying Mourinho is a bad manager, i'm saying most capable managers would be able to have some success given what Mourinho has to work with.
 

Eddie.

Bench
Messages
4,188
The Devil said:
Even at FC Porto they had a relatively strong squad, whom Mourinho had been in charge with for a few season. I'm not saying Mourinho is a bad manager, i'm saying most capable managers would be able to have some success given what Mourinho has to work with.

The man did wonders a t Porto. UEFA Cup one year, CL the next. Amazing stuff for a team that was not meant to progress even close to the final.

His transfer buys have oftened been a little puzzling. However name me a player he has bought in that is disrupting team harmony? He buys players that are happy to play within the team structure. You don't get to the stage where Van Nstelroy is not turning up for games, or Ronaldo from Madrid is whinging.

Look at Hernan Crespo, the man was a disconsolate figure under Ranieri at Chelsea who spoke out agains the club and manager. To the point where he never wanted to return. Under Mourinho Crespo was a totally different player, committed and enjoying the success of the team. Mourinho brings in players that help foster team spirit and thats why he has been so successful.
 

The Devil

Bench
Messages
2,515
We are not doubting his skills as a manager. He is a good manager, which is why Abrahmovic signed him over from FC Porto. The reason why most non Chelski fans dislike him is because of his sheer arrogance.

People dislike the club because they ruined the transfer market. Any chance a team had of signing any player is dashed by the ridiculous amount of money Chelsea and their billions are able to offer them. Only rare cases where money is unable to tempt a player from choosing a club, i.e Hleb

Even the most one-eyed Chelsea supporters cannot deny this. Another thing that people dislike about Chelsea is the fact that they dish out millions upon millions for some players whom other clubs would love to have, only to never have them start and on the bench all the time. i.e SWP
 

Iafeta

Referee
Messages
24,357
I agree, again, with everything you say Eddie.

Ranieri made some howling decisions at Chelsea.

As far as, oh but look at the cash Chelsea have, look at the spending sprees of other European clubs - Real, Madrid, Milan, Barcelona, heck even Manchester United or Bayern Munich in comparison to the rest of the teams in their leagues. It has not, never has, never will, guaranteed success. Infact, creating an entirely new system with an entirely new team takes a lot of moulding from a manager. No ifs, no buts.

I think Mourinho is a man with a lot of conviction, he believes strongly in the team but moreso success. He can come across as conceited, but I believe this is more a result of the success he wishes to attain and the lengths he will go in achieving them. A draw or a loss to a top club isn't good enough for him. Ranieri, well I think a loss to a top club like Barca or Milan would be deemed acceptable, lets move on.

Good on Mourinho, good on Chelsea. Time for other English clubs to beat them - they can, and eventually will. Money doesn't buy premierships. Just ask Real Madrid. Its not a matter of adding money to water and in 2 minutes get a cup or premiership. Its not two minute noodles. Every minute detailh as to be right. Yes, he has an advantage, but its an advantage others in the past have been known to misuse.
 

hybrid_tiger

Coach
Messages
11,684
Eddie. said:
Look at Hernan Crespo, the man was a disconsolate figure under Ranieri at Chelsea who spoke out agains the club and manager. To the point where he never wanted to return. Under Mourinho Crespo was a totally different player, committed and enjoying the success of the team. Mourinho brings in players that help foster team spirit and thats why he has been so successful.

But look at Crespo at Milan and look at him now. He isn't performing as he was previously.
 

Eddie.

Bench
Messages
4,188
hybrid_tiger said:
But look at Crespo at Milan and look at him now. He isn't performing as he was previously.

Crespo is alot more settled in Italy. All his friends and family are over their. In all likelyhood he will leave Chelsea again at the end of the season. He has only recently started to speak English and doesn't enjoy London.

Further more Chelsea don't play a game suited to Hernan Crespo. They play the long ball game for Drogba. Im sure you know as well as me that Crespo is a great mover and is a far superior player when the ball is played on the ground and into the angles he is running. He is not a rough and tumble player who will knock balls down at the feet of other Chelsea players. Crespo is considered secondary to Drogba, whether that is right or wrong is another issue. They also play the counter attacking game for the wingers. So when you go 1-0 up Crespo is usually the first man saying hello to the bench as Drogba will hold the ball up more in the front line.

Crespo has stated that the only reason he decided to come back was because of the manager and the fact that he now at least felt welcome at the club, despite not liking London. He could see that with Mourinho he could achieive his first title outside of Italy. The emotion he showed after the Premiership was won said it all.

It is a testament to Mourinho's man management. Where as crespo was disenchanted playing half the games under Ranieri, he enjoyed his football playing half the games at Chelsea.

And of course Crespos form will not be the same in England, he knows the Italian game in side out and has a wonderful record over there. To adapt to a league where the style is alot different - i thought he did well. Besides if you look at his goals per minute ratio in England i still think it would be pretty good.

He did well.
 

Eddie.

Bench
Messages
4,188
The Devil said:
We are not doubting his skills as a manager. He is a good manager, which is why Abrahmovic signed him over from FC Porto. The reason why most non Chelski fans dislike him is because of his sheer arrogance.

People dislike the club because they ruined the transfer market. Any chance a team had of signing any player is dashed by the ridiculous amount of money Chelsea and their billions are able to offer them. Only rare cases where money is unable to tempt a player from choosing a club, i.e Hleb

Even the most one-eyed Chelsea supporters cannot deny this. Another thing that people dislike about Chelsea is the fact that they dish out millions upon millions for some players whom other clubs would love to have, only to never have them start and on the bench all the time. i.e SWP

I thought you said all his transfer signings are hopeless? Make up your mind.

I thought Iafeta put things forward very well..

Mourinho has a ego, no doubt about it. It steams from the truck load of self belief he has in his management. He alwats shows unwavouring support of the playing group. Thats why he will often come across as arrogant.

He will go in and nominate the week Chelsea will win the title. WHy? Because he believes it is acheivable. By hereing this the players know their coach believes in them.

He will go in and defend Drogba when he is labelled a "diver". Why? Because Drogba needs to know that the manage believes in him when all the press are hammering him.

He will go in and say Chelsea get different treatment from Refs. Why? To put pressure on the refs, mind games. It is whinging, but like i said it is his style and he sticks solid to it.

He has created a seige mentality. I think the players feed off it. There are not to many players that speak out against the manager despite the fact their are often numerous top line players sitting in the stands week after week.

He is arrogant. I can see why people don't like him, but i can also see that people jump on his tactical decisions more to do with the fact they despise the man then with anything concrete.

There are different characters in sport.
 

The Devil

Bench
Messages
2,515
quote me saying that Chelseas signings have been hopeless.

He's arrogant, i can kind of stand that. The fact that everytime they lose it's never their fault is something i can't take. Another thing i can't take is that he has no humility, he has rarely, if ever, congratulates the other team or admits that his team waws outplayed.

I think it was last seasons Champions League match when he said "the better side lost" or something along the lines of that.
 

hybrid_tiger

Coach
Messages
11,684
I also believe until Mourinho wins the CL with Chelsea, he has not been a total success.

With an unlimited budget and the ability to puchase any player on the planet, a CL title must come next season.
 

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