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Congratulations NSW

hellteam

First Grade
Messages
6,532
Okay, I really think it's about time NSW fans got over this.

No amount of bitching and whingeing you will do will get Inglis out of a Maroon jersey. He plays for QLD, that's it.

You also won't make any QLDers 'guilty'. He wants to play for QLD, he's a QLDer. Give up!

Now shut up.
 

analyst

Juniors
Messages
141
This is really just a recycled thread

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?p=5581141#post5581141

One of QLD's best players is playing for the wrong team.

You want inglis fine, but one mans great skills is not going to make up for the rest of the teams shocking first half mistakes you take inglis's QLD try and add it to the NSW score and NSW still loss.

He grew up supporting Queensland because Arthur Beetson, our first Origin captain and an Aboriginal, was one of his heroes," Coolwell said.

inglis wants to play for QLD which means if he was forced to play for NSW because of technicality then his heart would be with the wrong team and I suspect that would have an effect on his confidence and skills, the last thing NSW needs is to have a player who's heart is with QLD and to be honest a guy like inglis who idolized Arthur beetson and probably current players like lockyer would not play for any state at all if he could not play for the state he wanted to play for not to mention a NSW coach would not choose a player who has no passion for NSW even if he is playing great footy ,actually jamie lyon played origin this year .......woops did I just bring up old news?
 

Lambretta

First Grade
Messages
8,689
I mentioned this in jest on another site to a mate from Queensland and his response was "well, they just wanted to play for the side that picks black fellahs"

He's bloody spot on. Had either Inglis or Folau stated they wanted to play for NSW they probably would have been made to wait another 3 years and made to feel bloody worthless into the bargain.

You would have had sh*te excuses questioning their defence or their commitment etc etc etc. Now I know that people can wheel out all the "but this player was better than this one because ..... blah blah blah" but if I were black I would probably look at the treatment of black players in the past and think "right, Queensland it is then"

NSW's historical selection stupidity is Queensland's gain. If I were either Folau or Inglis, I'd want to play for the State that WANTED me to play for them. Not the State that chose me out of a mix of sheer desperation and external pressure.

It's about time NSW fans stopped bitching and moaning about the players making the ONLY sensible choice. Where they were born or where they went to school is irrelevant. What is relevant are the reasons behind their choices to want to play for Queensland rather than New South Wales.
 

Bulldog Force

Referee
Messages
20,619
I mentioned this in jest on another site to a mate from Queensland and his response was "well, they just wanted to play for the side that picks black fellahs"

He's bloody spot on. Had either Inglis or Folau stated they wanted to play for NSW they probably would have been made to wait another 3 years and made to feel bloody worthless into the bargain.

You would have had sh*te excuses questioning their defence or their commitment etc etc etc. Now I know that people can wheel out all the "but this player was better than this one because ..... blah blah blah" but if I were black I would probably look at the treatment of black players in the past and think "right, Queensland it is then"

NSW's historical selection stupidity is Queensland's gain. If I were either Folau or Inglis, I'd want to play for the State that WANTED me to play for them. Not the State that chose me out of a mix of sheer desperation and external pressure.

It's about time NSW fans stopped bitching and moaning about the players making the ONLY sensible choice. Where they were born or where they went to school is irrelevant. What is relevant are the reasons behind their choices to want to play for Queensland rather than New South Wales.
I've been calling for Nathan Merritt to play origin for years now. But that's beside the point - just ask Michael Jennings.
 

Bulldog Force

Referee
Messages
20,619
Wow good one Bulldog force never seen that before!

Queensland (24)
Tries: Greg Inglis, Israel Folau, Darren Lockyer, Cameron Smith
Goals: Johnathan Thurston (4/4)

def

New South Wales (14)
Tries: Jarryd Hayne (2), David Williams
Goals: Kurt Gidley (1/3)
nahnah.gif
 

analyst

Juniors
Messages
141
I mentioned this in jest on another site to a mate from Queensland and his response was "well, they just wanted to play for the side that picks black fellahs"

He's bloody spot on. Had either Inglis or Folau stated they wanted to play for NSW they probably would have been made to wait another 3 years and made to feel bloody worthless into the bargain.

You would have had sh*te excuses questioning their defence or their commitment etc etc etc. Now I know that people can wheel out all the "but this player was better than this one because ..... blah blah blah" but if I were black I would probably look at the treatment of black players in the past and think "right, Queensland it is then"

NSW's historical selection stupidity is Queensland's gain. If I were either Folau or Inglis, I'd want to play for the State that WANTED me to play for them. Not the State that chose me out of a mix of sheer desperation and external pressure.

It's about time NSW fans stopped bitching and moaning about the players making the ONLY sensible choice. Where they were born or where they went to school is irrelevant. What is relevant are the reasons behind their choices to want to play for Queensland rather than New South Wales.

I mentioned arther beetson and was going to touch on the subject of "black fellahs" but thought "I wont make this contraversioal, but you are spot on and I agree with the above statement totally
 

analyst

Juniors
Messages
141
I mentioned arther beetson and was going to touch on the subject of "black fellahs" but thought "I wont make this contraversioal, but you are spot on and I agree with the above statement totally

But I would add to that ,its not so much NSW not picking aboriginal players its more so the inglis's of today (not that there are too many with inglis's skills) would have seen the arther's and tallis's play when they were young so naturally they want to emulate thier idols I have no doubt that if your a kid who dreams of being like lockyer or arthur then you going to want to play for QLD no doubt about it.
 

watatank

Coach
Messages
14,099
He's bloody spot on. Had either Inglis or Folau stated they wanted to play for NSW they probably would have been made to wait another 3 years and made to feel bloody worthless into the bargain.

Folau would have got a run just like Hayne did after his debut season. I don't think Inglis would have got a run straight away, though.
 
Messages
3,542
It has been discussed many times to the point of who gives a sh*t?
Apparently a lot of people give a sh*t abour ORIGIN. Look at the posts in this forum, the crowds it attracts and views on TV.
Note the word origin. Its not sour grapes, its just utter bullsh*t. I don't give a f**k who they want to play for. I want to play for Netherlands in cricket so I can get a run but that doesn't mean I can go play for them. And SoO has even more importance on a junior growing up then cricket does.
It does matter and its a f**king debacle. If we have people playing for whoever offers the most money/where they want to play why dont we just play 2 club sides against one another?
In fact scrap the whole NRL concept, just play a best of 3 series between 2 random dream teams in June. One team can wear yellow, the other green. And players can choose where they want to play. Because that is all origin is with these 2 nuffies being absolute dogs to the state that bread them.
 
Messages
17,427
Apparently a lot of people give a sh*t abour ORIGIN. Look at the posts in this forum, the crowds it attracts and views on TV.
Note the word origin. Its not sour grapes, its just utter bullsh*t. I don't give a f**k who they want to play for. I want to play for Netherlands in cricket so I can get a run but that doesn't mean I can go play for them. And SoO has even more importance on a junior growing up then cricket does.
It does matter and its a f**king debacle. If we have people playing for whoever offers the most money/where they want to play why dont we just play 2 club sides against one another?
In fact scrap the whole NRL concept, just play a best of 3 series between 2 random dream teams in June. One team can wear yellow, the other green. And players can choose where they want to play. Because that is all origin is with these 2 nuffies being absolute dogs to the state that bread them.

Don't rant at me when you have no idea what I'm talking about.
I am saying I am sick of hearing about it, and hearing it as our excuse for losing the series.
 

Lambretta

First Grade
Messages
8,689
Folau would have got a run just like Hayne did after his debut season. I don't think Inglis would have got a run straight away, though.

Possibly - but the errors of the past have created a situation where young black/aboriginal players will feel more affinity to Queensland rather than New South Wales.

Look at talents like Mundine, Blacklock & Preston Campbell. Had they been Queenslanders they would have had a bucket load of Origin caps between them. As it is, what did Mundine play? 1 game off the bench?

If someone is eligible to play for both States - as Folau and Inglis were, which State were they going to choose? There's only one answer.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Haha of course, rules are made for a purpose, but then again they should be broken whenever people wish. Thats just ridiculous. Its state of ORIGIN. Can anyone explain to me how we have the situation we do now.
If thats the case hand the Bulldogs the 2002 premiership. The salary cap stop sides poaching, but those players all loved the Bulldogs and wanted to play for them. So why were they penalised?

First point explained - whenever strict enforcement of laws causes a situation to develop that is inconsistent with the purpose of the rules and thus iniquitous, an appellate judge will probably in any common law jurisdiction (UK, AUS, NZ) set aside the matter at hand and decide contradictory to the strict interpretation of the rules. The rules in this situation are perceived guidelines as they could not have intended to make rules that encompass every possible scenario nor cause inconsistency with purpose in exercise. Thus, they are tested and enforced on a case by case basis. Obviously Inglis and Folau are still playing for QLD, thus, QLD is not breaking the rules. Its not ridiculous - its consistant with common law and it has been done for hundreds of years. Its the best legal system in the world!

Your bulldogs metaphor is a disanalogy. The rules of the salary cap are about ammount a club can pay its players. The purpose is to prevent richer teams buying all the best players leaving the poorer clubs with less money. The purpose is to promote a more even playing field for the clubs to compete in. There is no salary cap in origin. Rep players choose to represent states and countries for the love of it and not for monetary payment. Its not their employment. Thus, it is different to the Bulldogs who paid their players. Therefore, you must be angry that Folau and Inglis love NSW more.
 
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Frank_Grimes

First Grade
Messages
7,018
If someone is eligible to play for both States - as Folau and Inglis were, which State were they going to choose? There's only one answer.

Let's get something straight: Folau has never been elligible to play for anyone but QLD. His first senior football was in QLD. I don't know where people are getting the idea that he should be in Blue.
 

Jason Maher

Immortal
Messages
35,981
Imagine the outcry from up north if the reverse of the Inglis situation ever happened. Inglis is not elligible for Queensland under the current rules. End of argument.
 
Messages
3,542
First point explained - whenever strict enforcement of laws causes a situation to develop that is inconsistent with the purpose of the rules and thus iniquitous, an appellate judge will probably in any common law jurisdiction (UK, AUS, NZ) set aside the matter at hand and decide contradictory to the strict interpretation of the rules. The rules in this situation are perceived guidelines as they could not have intended to make rules that encompass every possible scenario nor cause inconsistency with purpose in exercise. Thus, they are tested and enforced on a case by case basis. Obviously Inglis and Folau are still playing for QLD, thus, QLD is not breaking the rules. Its not ridiculous - its consistant with common law and it has been done for hundreds of years. Its the best legal system in the world!

Don't patronise me, I know how the law system works in any Westminster(sp?) system. The law has a duty to stay constant within the ethical views of society. We are not talking about a law here, but rather a rule. There is a difference there in itself. Secondly common law is a form of law as it causes precedence in which must be followed in any court lower than the one in which the decision was handed down within the same system. If this is the case, why doesn't the ARL abolish the Origin rules which currently stand. Laws are not ignored, but rather changed. The rules were changed in 1980 in order to make interstate matches more competitive (and rightly so), the origin laws were brought in, thus creating the State Of ORIGIN. For good reason these rules still exist, and are blatantly being ignored.

State of Origin defined:
Origin: The point at which something comes into existence or from which it derives or is derived.

The beginning of footballing existance clearly began for these 2 players in NSW.

Simple as that really.
 

ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
Don't patronise me, I know how the law system works in any Westminster(sp?) system. The law has a duty to stay constant within the ethical views of society. We are not talking about a law here, but rather a rule. There is a difference there in itself. Secondly common law is a form of law as it causes precedence in which must be followed in any court lower than the one in which the decision was handed down within the same system. If this is the case, why doesn't the ARL abolish the Origin rules which currently stand. Laws are not ignored, but rather changed. The rules were changed in 1980 in order to make interstate matches more competitive (and rightly so), the origin laws were brought in, thus creating the State Of ORIGIN. For good reason these rules still exist, and are blatantly being ignored.

State of Origin defined:
Origin: The point at which something comes into existence or from which it derives or is derived.

The beginning of footballing existance clearly began for these 2 players in NSW.

Simple as that really.

With the greatest respect you are not right. So many mistakes. I will help you out.

There is a reason why the courts could force the NRL to reenter Souths despite the NRL ruling otherwise. The NRL's decisions are subject to law. The law may impose DECISION upon private bodies and force injunctions if it thinks right to do so. That said the NRL eligibility rules are subject to judicial review law. This is the branch of law that scrutinizes whether a decision was made following the correct procedure.

Westminster is a Parliamentary system not a judicial system. USA has a common law legal system and not a Westminster parliament system. They do not have a Parliament in their government!

Australia's legal system is based upon judges interpreting Parliament's statutes. Statutes can overrule previous Judge's decisions held at common law. Therefore, the statutes dictate to judges what they can and cannot decide. These statutes are however interpreted by judges. This is to prevent tyranny and injustice according to Blackstone. As such it is the role of Parliament to legislate current social ethics into law or judges to take into account public policy ramifications when interpreting legislation. No court in effect binds itself under stare decisis within commonlaw. Therefore the law may always be free to adapt.

All law is a set of rules, therefore any association's rules are analogous to law. These rules must be consistent with law. You cannot contract out of law. This is why players have their lawyers goto the "judiciary" of the NRL when suspensions (penalties) are executed. This is why they can sue the decision making body in a full court of law if they do not agree with the decision made. (ala Souths again.)

The Inglis case was tried by the appropriate authority and they gave him the green light, thus, they they decided that no law or state of origin rule was broken. This is almost certainly because all rules must be ascertained in light of their text (before you goto the dictionary you must see if origin is defined in the rules itself -) and in light of their purpose. We disagree what the purpose is. You say to make it more competitve. I say to allow people like Beetson to qualify for the state which they love. The purpose should be stated in the rules. Now if a body of rules is to deprive someone of the liberty of choice - the rules must enunciate this clearly. This may not be presumed even by the rules definition of origin and certainly not by a dictionary! Australia is a free society. People who have lived in two states have the choice to say which state is their most loved. Former immigrants who are citizens can choose to say whether they are Australian or Tongan! Likewise whether they are Queenslanders or NSWmen. This probably influenced the authority that duely found Inglis's decision to play for Queensland was within their interpreted purpose of those rules!

I hope I didn't patronise you - I know the law is subtle and some struggle to grasp it - but it makes sense. Please do not try to educate me on legal matters again. I have not seen the state of origin eligibility rules and I do not really need to for the purposes of arguing with you because those rules are subject to greater law of which I am familiar.

If you think the authority erred in its decision, instead of bleating on this website - sue them in court - you may even be awarded damages if in the very unlikely event the judges find for you. Until you do - no rule or law has been breached with Inglis playing for Queensland. Its a free country! Until then, I suggest you think of State of Origin as a State of Choice. Inglis chose QLD. For what its worth - Im glad he did!
 
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ANTiLAG

First Grade
Messages
8,014
I apologise if that previous post was too wordy. Just wanted to settle the matter with him once and for all.
 
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