continued improvement

[beecww]

I'm 79 year s old, old have been on this site for about 10 years.
I was able to watch every grand final from 56 to 66.
I have now watched the e worst administration of this club for the last 15 years, and sadly seen the club sink to the lowest depths in its' history.
The selection of coaches during this period, has been so poor that not one of them ha s ever been offered a contract for another NRL club since their tenure here. The only one who seemed to be worth his money won a state cup, but was white anted and left to go to Souths.
This brings me to the past 2 season where thankfully there has been slow but gradual improvement.
I read on here about the dislike of Tyrell Sloan. He has come up through the ranks where, to my eye all he has had to do is run like
Offiah and score tries. So his defence is poor, but to blame him for the last try loss last weekend was wrong.
Saints were outnumbered 4 to 3. Sloan, Suli and Flanagan.and Kikau coming back inside. So really 5 to 3. Sloan ran up and hit the
centre while both Suli and Flanagan backed ott Galvin and tackled nobody.
To finish, we have beaten Melbourne, taken Canberra and Caterbury to the wire, which makes me think how
many of our side would make any of those teams.

 

[56to66]

Anthony Griffin lost many games by a couple of points here and there, however it wasn't enough to keep him going.

Has there been improvements? At least 3 games this year should have been won by smart play by play to pop a fieldgoal, is it that hard for Flanagan to send a message to the players.

So what about 2026, say we lose 15 games by 1 to 6 points, and every game there was opportunity win?

I don't care who you are, how nice you are, your measured by win/loss and at the moment Flanagan running at 39%, that pretty crap in my books!

 

[I'm Hornby]

Anthony Griffin lost many games by a couple of points here and there, however it wasn't enough to keep him going.

Has there been improvements? At least 3 games this year should have been won by smart play by play to pop a fieldgoal, is it that hard for Flanagan to send a message to the players.

So what about 2026, say we lose 15 games by 1 to 6 points, and every game there was opportunity win?

I don't care who you are, how nice you are, your measured by win/loss and at the moment Flanagan running at 39%, that pretty crap in my books!

Yes mate great comparison and shows the double standards people have between the previous coach and the current coach.

In Griffin's last season prior to his sacking we were two wins and 8 losses and we'd lost 5 of the 8 games by 6 points or less (we lost 4 games by 2 points and 1 game by 1 point).

Interestingly Griffin's win record went from 33% in his 1st season, to 50% in his second season which was at least 'constant improvement' and yet his third season wasn't enough to keep him going past round 11 despite the many close losses.

As you've pointed out it's all about Ws and Ls, they're the sole metrics for a coach and the trajectory of Flanagan's coaching is going backwards, there has been no improvement.

 

[jak]

I'm 79 year s old, old have been on this site for about 10 years.
I was able to watch every grand final from 56 to 66.
I have now watched the e worst administration of this club for the last 15 years, and sadly seen the club sink to the lowest depths in its' history.
The selection of coaches during this period, has been so poor that not one of them ha s ever been offered a contract for another NRL club since their tenure here. The only one who seemed to be worth his money won a state cup, but was white anted and left to go to Souths.
This brings me to the past 2 season where thankfully there has been slow but gradual improvement.
I read on here about the dislike of Tyrell Sloan. He has come up through the ranks where, to my eye all he has had to do is run like
Offiah and score tries. So his defence is poor, but to blame him for the last try loss last weekend was wrong.
Saints were outnumbered 4 to 3. Sloan, Suli and Flanagan.and Kikau coming back inside. So really 5 to 3. Sloan ran up and hit the
centre while both Suli and Flanagan backed ott Galvin and tackled nobody.
To finish, we have beaten Melbourne, taken Canberra and Caterbury to the wire, which makes me think how
many of our side would make any of those teams.

well said mate, me and a few others on this forum were sitting with you at those games, I agree with everything you have written in your post.

 

[Dragon David]

Yeah, pretty crappy if 39% is the actual stat at this moment 567to66.

Our problems have been fairly much the same for over a decade. In my opinion the better period in the last decade was during Mary's coaching period - not of his coaching mind you but the players that he had. When Mary was the coach, to me I felt more of a buzz and looked forward to the games for the following reason:-
The St. George Illawarra Dragons had a dynamic squad between 2015 and 2019, with key players including Gareth Widdop, Josh Dugan, and Jack de Belin. Other notable players during this period were Tyson Frizell, Euan Aitken, and Ben Hunt. The team also saw the departure of some prominent players like Brett Morris and Gerard Beale in 2015.

Here's a more detailed look at the squad and notable players:
Key Players & Movements:

• Gareth Widdop: A crucial player who joined in 2014 and became a fan favorite, earning several accolades including the Red V Members' Player of the Year in 2014 and 2015, and a Dragons Medallist in 2017.
  
  
• Josh Dugan: A prominent player in the Dragons' backline during this period, known for his strong running and try-scoring ability.
  
  
• Jack de Belin: A consistent performer in the forward pack, playing all his NRL matches with the Dragons since his debut in 2011.
  
  
• Tyson Frizell: A powerful back-rower who was a regular in the starting lineup.
  
  
• Euan Aitken: A young center who emerged from the Dragons' lower grades, impressing with his speed and footwork.
  
  
• Ben Hunt: Joined the Dragons and became a key player in the halves.
• 
  
• Matt Dufty: Joined the Dragons in 2017 and left to go to the Bulldogs in 2022
  
  
• Departures: Brett Morris (to Bulldogs), Gerard Beale (to Sharks), and others left the club in 2015.

Other Notable Players:

• Leeson Ah Mau: A prop who played a significant role in the forward pack.
  
  
• Mitch Rein: A hooker who was a regular in the team.
  
  
• Ben Creagh: A long-serving captain who retired in 2016.
  
  
• Jason Nightingale: A winger known for his try-scoring ability.
  
  
• Peter Mata'utia: A versatile player who could play in multiple positions.
  
  
• Joel Thompson: A back-rower who was a regular in the team.

There were other notables like Tariq Sims, Paul Vaughan, James Graham, Nene MacDonald, Cam McInnes etc.

There is no denying that Shane Flanagan has had very good experience and results when at the Sharks, but the past year and a half he appears like a Hook type of coach and we have him for another year which I am hoping he will improve his win result stats. Bloody hoping again like for so many years now.

 

[Dragon David]

Sorry - 56to66 not 567to66.

 

[Tuddy]

I think Flanagan has done a great job in what have been very difficult circumstances.

He’s blooded a lot of our juniors and worked out to a great extent the ones he wants to keep and the ones he can afford to lose. This is something we have ALL been crying out for, for so many years. I am sick of seeing our juniors, that we have developed, walking out the door straight into a first grade spot for another team.

He’s also identified where we need to buy, but that’s tough work without a recruitment manager. Has Anderson even been confirmed yet?

People that don’t understand the front office game can blame Flanagan all they want, but it’s the structures, systems and strategies that build a long term dynasty. Not wins and losses from week to week. Ask Frank Facer.

I know Flanagan can do his part, but can the new CEO and the board? I certainly don’t think Haran can. How this guy is still there is inexplicable.

But yeah, let’s blame the Head Coach (not even some very dodgy appointments in his staff) every time we lose, because it must be all about statistics and wins and losses.

Every time I read the posts from these numpties I think to myself, it’s not their fault, it’s just genetics or being dropped on their head when they were a baby.

 

[56to66]

It shouldn't take an experienced coach 4:years to get it right, if that was the case, we could have gone for Josh Hannay. Des Hasler is another experience coach gone.
Flanagan has got until now and mid next year to get done, or he can go knocking on the door to Anthony Griffin house for a few cold drinks.

 

[sammymills]

It shouldn't take an experienced coach 4:years to get it right, if that was the case, we could have gone for Josh Hannay. Des Hasler is another experience coach gone.
Flanagan has got until now and mid next year to get done, or he can go knocking on the door to Anthony Griffin house for a few cold drinks.

a 30 can box of coke, griffin loved his coke.

 

[KingFlanno7]

*Deleted*

 

[UDGE]

Yeah, pretty crappy if 39% is the actual stat at this moment 567to66.

Our problems have been fairly much the same for over a decade. In my opinion the better period in the last decade was during Mary's coaching period - not of his coaching mind you but the players that he had. When Mary was the coach, to me I felt more of a buzz and looked forward to the games for the following reason:-
The St. George Illawarra Dragons had a dynamic squad between 2015 and 2019, with key players including Gareth Widdop, Josh Dugan, and Jack de Belin. Other notable players during this period were Tyson Frizell, Euan Aitken, and Ben Hunt. The team also saw the departure of some prominent players like Brett Morris and Gerard Beale in 2015.

Here's a more detailed look at the squad and notable players:
Key Players & Movements:

• Gareth Widdop: A crucial player who joined in 2014 and became a fan favorite, earning several accolades including the Red V Members' Player of the Year in 2014 and 2015, and a Dragons Medallist in 2017.
  
  
• Josh Dugan: A prominent player in the Dragons' backline during this period, known for his strong running and try-scoring ability.
  
  
• Jack de Belin: A consistent performer in the forward pack, playing all his NRL matches with the Dragons since his debut in 2011.
  
  
• Tyson Frizell: A powerful back-rower who was a regular in the starting lineup.
  
  
• Euan Aitken: A young center who emerged from the Dragons' lower grades, impressing with his speed and footwork.
  
  
• Ben Hunt: Joined the Dragons and became a key player in the halves.
• 
  
• Matt Dufty: Joined the Dragons in 2017 and left to go to the Bulldogs in 2022
  
  
• Departures: Brett Morris (to Bulldogs), Gerard Beale (to Sharks), and others left the club in 2015.

Other Notable Players:

• Leeson Ah Mau: A prop who played a significant role in the forward pack.
  
  
• Mitch Rein: A hooker who was a regular in the team.
  
  
• Ben Creagh: A long-serving captain who retired in 2016.
  
  
• Jason Nightingale: A winger known for his try-scoring ability.
  
  
• Peter Mata'utia: A versatile player who could play in multiple positions.
  
  
• Joel Thompson: A back-rower who was a regular in the team.

There were other notables like Tariq Sims, Paul Vaughan, James Graham, Nene MacDonald, Cam McInnes etc.

There is no denying that Shane Flanagan has had very good experience and results when at the Sharks, but the past year and a half he appears like a Hook type of coach and we have him for another year which I am hoping he will improve his win result stats. Bloody hoping again like for so many years now.

Great post it's such a shame widdop suffered the injuries he did i think 18,19,20 would have been a lot different if he stayed healthy most underrated player at the dragons since hornby who should have played many more rep games spilt milk now though but he carried that team in 18 we don't have anywhere near the standard of players as we had then i think if we can get a few top range players and hopefully some more of the youngsters coming thru are as good as the ones blooded this year flanagan will go alright hoping

 

[Unsainty79]

Anthony Griffin lost many games by a couple of points here and there, however it wasn't enough to keep him going.

Has there been improvements? At least 3 games this year should have been won by smart play by play to pop a fieldgoal, is it that hard for Flanagan to send a message to the players.

So what about 2026, say we lose 15 games by 1 to 6 points, and every game there was opportunity win?

I don't care who you are, how nice you are, your measured by win/loss and at the moment Flanagan running at 39%, that pretty crap in my books!

You are right that it's not great, but some of the football under Griffin was absolutely dire. He had stacked the side with some money ball signings like McGuire and McCullough who in fairness did OK, but it was hard to see what was next under Griffin. It felt like that team was at its absolute capacity.

Flanagan & co at the very least are giving some of the juniors in Stewart, Egan, T Couchman & King-Togia a red hot crack and we even bypassed RCG and Saifiti because they wanted 3 year deals.

 

[I'm Hornby]

a 30 can box of coke, griffin loved his coke.

Flanno was enjoying one too as we lined up the penalty goal on Saturday Night, he must be morphing in to Griffin

 

[I'm Hornby]

You are right that it's not great, but some of the football under Griffin was absolutely dire. He had stacked the side with some money ball signings like McGuire and McCullough who in fairness did OK, but it was hard to see what was next under Griffin. It felt like that team was at its absolute capacity.

Flanagan & co at the very least are giving some of the juniors in Stewart, Egan, T Couchman & King-Togia a red hot crack and we even bypassed RCG and Saifiti because they wanted 3 year deals.

It feels about the same to me right now being at our capacity and not getting better.

Flanagan is great for a money ball signing too, he has given us a good few, I'm sure you can work out who.

That's great that you feel Flanagan is giving some of the juniors a red hot crack. Toby Couchman debuted under Griffin, Ryan Couchman debuted under Carr. I remember Griffin had Ramsey playing really well at fullback in the 2022 season. Griffin also brought through Amone and Sullivan had enough opportunities for Flanagan to decide to let him go when he got to the club.
Remember this was all during COVID years when reserve grade was heavily disrupted, so all in all I don't think you can say there's a great deal of difference in this aspect.
In recent times Flanagan hasn't given game time to LPT and he decided to drop Finau for an extended period of time after ANZAC day.
Whether or not these players will actually develop, be successful, stay at the club etc is still unknown, we don't yet know for sure how successful Flanagan will be in this regard, we do know that the results are going backwards under him so far this year.

 

[hewi]

It shouldn't take an experienced coach 4:years to get it right, if that was the case, we could have gone for Josh Hannay. Des Hasler is another experience coach gone.
Flanagan has got until now and mid next year to get done, or he can go knocking on the door to Anthony Griffin house for a few cold drinks.

‘That’s it,but I wouldn’t give him till mid next year. First 6 rounds 4 wins or you are gone.

 

[JamesRustle]

2023 - 16th on 5 wins with -199 F/A
2024 - 11th on 11 wins with -126 F/A
2025 with 7 games to play and 14 points up for grabs - 11th on 6 wins with -58 F/A. We may end up with an improved F/A compared with the last 2 seasons, but I can't see us improving on 11 wins from here.



There is not too much between our best and worst performances... we are just a very average team. Average winning margin is 10.3. Average losing margin is 10.9.

We have lost 4 games by 2 points or less and another 2 games by a converted try or less - that's 6 games and 12 competition points we have let slip. Get the bounce of the ball, a favourable call or make 1 less error in half those games and we are on 9 wins and sitting inside the top 8.

53% of our games have been decided by a converted try or less. Of those 9 games, we have won 3. I recall a stat or comment where if you win at least half of your close games you generally play finals, it was probably about 10 years ago where the Raiders missed, then made finals the following year and the main difference was they converted the close results in the second year.

We have won 13+ on 3 occasions and lost 13+ twice - granted the losses were worse, losing by 28 and 50 (to middling teams), where the wins were 22, 14 and 14 (against garbage teams).

Throw in the 7 and 8 point losses and that’s 64% of games decided by 8 points or less… of those games we have won 3 of 11 - yikes.

On average:
- we score 1 more try when playing at home (average points scored 23.5 at home v 20.4 away)
- we concede 2 less converted trys when playing at home (average points conceded 18.6 at home v 31.2 away)

We have won 4 of 8 games at home and all of our 13+ wins have been at home.

We have won 2 of 9 games away, away wins were by 2 and 4 and all of our 13+ losses have been away.

Historically, you need 13 wins to play finals. This year you might sneak in with 12 wins. I think you can confidently book holidays after 6 September! ... or earlier if you don't want to sit through our remaining games.

We have 6 wins to date and have 4 home games and 3 away games remaining.

I hope we have not blown all of our resilience in the last 3 games. From this years stats, we might win 2 of the home games (Raiders, Sharks, Sea Eagles, Panthers) and 1 of the away games (Cowboys, Warriors, Rabbits) and hopefully that is sufficient to avoid the spoon!

 

[Anon]

At least 3 games this year should have been won by smart play by play to pop a fieldgoal, is it that hard for Flanagan to send a message to the players.

f**k me. We are talking about first grade rugby league players. Do they really need a message from the coach to set up for a field goal towards the end of a game when the scores are level or we are leading by 6 points?

 

[jeffdragon]

We all know we needed forwards halves and got very little quality.
In the market for many forwards but got the leftovers.
It's all about wins and losses however you look at it.

In 26 no guarantees it will get better.

When we play boring footy it is shit.
When we throw it around we look half decent.

 

[Inisai Toga]

You are right that it's not great, but some of the football under Griffin was absolutely dire. He had stacked the side with some money ball signings like McGuire and McCullough who in fairness did OK, but it was hard to see what was next under Griffin. It felt like that team was at its absolute capacity.

Flanagan & co at the very least are giving some of the juniors in Stewart, Egan, T Couchman & King-Togia a red hot crack and we even bypassed RCG and Saifiti because they wanted 3 year deals.

Fair comment, but Griffin couldn’t call on juniors as they hadn’t played for so long as the lower grades competition had been called off; no one to give much of a go.

 

[Flinstone]

f**k me. We are talking about first grade rugby league players. Do they really need a message from the coach to set up for a field goal towards the end of a game when the scores are level or we are leading by 6 points?

Fans watching on can tell when to go for a field goal the players look like they have no clue when to take one .
The second game against Parra we were up by 6 with i think 8 min to go, 20m out perfect time for field goal and put the pressure on Parra. No didn't take it and we just got away with the win otherwise it would of been another game let slip. After the game they asked Kyle why didn't they go for field goal, he said Gutho made the call to just play on.
Did they not learn from about 3 or 4 games earlier in the year.

Do the players not know the game plan, earlier in the year even Flanno was disappointed in the lack of direction and leadership to take the field goal when we should of.

I think there too scared if they miss it's a 7 tackle set and now they give the opposition an opportunity, so they prefer to take the tackle on 5th close the the opposition try line and back their defense.