David Gallop: State of the Game address

[nqboy]

I think a second Brisbane side is still needed as well. I think Brisbane Rugby League fans need an alternative. If Sydney can handle having 500 NRL clubs Brisbane can handle having two of them!

The exciting thing about the NRL is that after the next expansion (Probably two teams) the League will be looking to expand into some really exciting areas.

True, true. The dream of a NATIONAL Rugby League (as in Perth and Adelaide) is still a way off but a second Brisbane side, the CC and the Orcas are all good proposals.

 

[Kurt Angle]

Who said anything about expanding there ?

There's more suburbs in Sydney we can put teams in.

RL is booming, Bring back North Sydney, Newtown.

Narellan would be a part of Sydney now and I think Hornsby needs a side.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Are we forgetting Carrara? The Southport Sharks are still the wealthiest club in the area. It will be interesting to watch support for the lions now they have missed the finals after all the success they've had. Is Carrara too close to the Lions (who don't polarise support the way the Broncos do) and SEQ population too small? Western Sydney and Carrara must be the next steps for the AFL, I hope what you're saying about support for AFL there is true.

No, we're not forgetting Carrara.

But the AFL are plenty pissed off that the NRL is there first. AFL will go there because they have nowhere else to expand to. They're running scared otherwise there'd be a team there already. They have 3 or 4 financially crippled teams in Melbourne and the AFL don't mind forcibly moving teams. they haven't done that yet to the Gold Coast because they're concerned.

Western Sydney is a joke when it comes to AFL. I live here and AFL is as relevant to the people of Western Sydney as Curling is.

It'll be a disaster. The Swans needed 20 years to average 15k a week, this one will need 50.

 

[nqboy]

This has been an interesting thread with a few different ideas to follow. Can't be bothered going back and finding the quote but someone listed the stadiums in Sydney that needed upgrades - Parra, Penrith, Shark Park and one other I think - because they were struglling with larger crowds. What about Kogarah, WIN, Leichardt and Campbelltown?

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

All them too.

It won't be long before we have a match of the round at the Stadium. The SCG used to have big crowds at the game of the round back in the day.

 

[Green Machine]

Horse sh*t.

They've been plugging AFL incessantly in Sydney for 25 years and it's got them 15,000 people per week in the ground and sweet f**k all on the TV.

They had their heyday in 1996. If the pink flamingos make the GF they'll get a decent rating but it won't get anywhere near what it did in 1996. It got the ratings in 1996 because of one player and he doesn't play any more.

Big bad boofy bumgrinder Barry isn't worthy to lick Lockett's boots as far as popularity in Sydney goes. But they're both poofs.

And what, do you think the AFL is going to stop promoting their sport is Sydney because they get lapped in the TV ratings? Has it stopped them so far? Has Channel 7, 9 or 10 refused to screen Swans games? Where are you getting the figure that the Swans are attracting 15k home attendances. So far this season their average home ground attendance is 31,516. The Swans got record ratings in 1996 because of the Super League War. They took off because Rugby League dropped the ball. Sydney has a population close to 3 million people. In the mid 80’s when they had the Capper fad, it was estimated that there was over 250,000 ex-pats from the Southern states in Sydney. How many would it be now? Its all well and good to jump up and down and say, "they’ve had their day in Sydney," but the NRL has continued to give them free kicks. Thank god the NRL have woke to the damage of not having “Live” coverage of FTA, that has given people an opportunity to sample AFL and the Wallabies. Thank god they have seen the effects of giving out an exclusive radio contract to a station that won’t broadcast the Saturday Night games which opened a door for other stations to call AFL and Rugby Union. Going forward, I don’t want the NRL to walk around high fiving each other and saying how great a job they doing. I want them to pull their heads out of their arses and stop giving Union and AFL free kicks,

 

[Balmain_Boy]

Sydney has like 4.5 million people...

 

[Green Machine]

Are we forgetting Carrara? The Southport Sharks are still the wealthiest club in the area. It will be interesting to watch support for the lions now they have missed the finals after all the success they've had. Is Carrara too close to the Lions (who don't polarise support the way the Broncos do) and SEQ population too small? Western Sydney and Carrara must be the next steps for the AFL, I hope what you're saying about support for AFL there is true.

The AFL seems like the cat with nine lives. The NRL put a side on the Gold Coast to lock the AFL out of SEQ and AFL still get to keep Carrara as a venue. It will be interesting how many games Hawthorn play there next year,

 

[iggy plop]

I don’t think that will stop them (whether it is successful or not). The AFL is banking on population shift from the Southern States to NSW and Sydney in particular. The State Government are going to build them a stadium inside BOP. Western Sydney is a growth market that the AFL has identified that they need to be in. They are going to keep coming,

Carr's government has been/was a disgrace. Allowing for Telstra Stadium to accomodate the melbourne game, building them a stadium at blacktown and the poker machine taxes are just a few pro-AFl and anti Rl things he has done.

For a bloke who hated sport, Carr certainly didn't mind wasting cash on the AFL - that f**king horrid melbourne game.

So much for Sydney's game being catered for.

 

[iggy plop]

If Union decide to go Central Coast there would be trouble ahead too.

Why would they ever decide to go the the Central Coast?

More chance of Hoppa playing for the toffy Wallabies.

 

[iggy plop]

Gee, so the AFL is no threat to Rugby League at all. The Swans with all its poor TV ratings somehow get better TV exposure that any NRL side in Sydney. A low sport like the AFL has equal radio coverage if not better, that the whole NRL in Sydney. The Swans have Phillip Clark on 2GB, Russell Barwick and James Brayshaw on 2MMM and Steve Price on 2UE. Who does Rugby League have on Sydney Radio? I pick up a magazine lift out of one of the Sunday papers where Jean Kittson told what it was like to follow Football in Sydney and in particular her Swans. I wonder how the Swans keep getting pages of print space in the Sunday papers if they are going so terrible. The AFL might get a $150m TV deal soon. To treat them with no respect is asking for trouble. If you listen to any AFL commentator, the thing that the AFL is praying for is a Swans Grand Final win.

People who keep bagging the Swans/AFL (like me) need to look at the unjustifiable coverage the sport gets in Sydney. It's a concern.

But in saying that, they have had a good ride for a long time now and still can't crack it for more than a niche.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

And what, do you think the AFL is going to stop promoting their sport is Sydney because they get lapped in the TV ratings? Has it stopped them so far? Has Channel 7, 9 or 10 refused to screen Swans games? Where are you getting the figure that the Swans are attracting 15k home attendances. So far this season their average home ground attendance is 31,516. The Swans got record ratings in 1996 because of the Super League War. They took off because Rugby League dropped the ball. Sydney has a population close to 3 million people. In the mid 80’s when they had the Capper fad, it was estimated that there was over 250,000 ex-pats from the Southern states in Sydney. How many would it be now? Its all well and good to jump up and down and say, "they’ve had their day in Sydney," but the NRL has continued to give them free kicks. Thank god the NRL have woke to the damage of not having “Live” coverage of FTA, that has given people an opportunity to sample AFL and the Wallabies. Thank god they have seen the effects of giving out an exclusive radio contract to a station that won’t broadcast the Saturday Night games which opened a door for other stations to call AFL and Rugby Union. Going forward, I don’t want the NRL to walk around high fiving each other and saying how great a job they doing. I want them to pull their heads out of their arses and stop giving Union and AFL free kicks,

FFS, what are you on?

Have you ever heard of paragraphs?

AFL had their day in 1996, the combination of the Super League war and the popularity of one player gave them a banner year.

From then on it's been all downhill to now where they ran second or something like that yet they averaged 30k and sweet f**k all in the ratings.

It's taken them 25 years to get there.

The NRL aren't sitting on their hands, in fact they were absolutely pro-active in the fight against AFL when they announced that the 16th team was the Gold Coast.

How many people in Sydney listen to AFL games on the radio?

There's f**k all watching live games on TV so the amount of people listening on the radio would be a small percentage of that small percentage.

 

[dubby]

Its not a threat in the short term, but the market it is preaching at cannot be underestimated. I went to the SCG a couple of years ago, was invited to the members by business folk, and the crowd was big and really into the game. I couldn't follow it, lost interest, and spent the second half in a rotation buying beers from the bar. Apart from that, It was the amount of families & in particular kids at the game which astounded me. I'd never go back but there are plenty who do.

It is these kids who go to the AFL who will grow up following AFL as opposed to league. In other words, what they grow up watching is what they will follow all their lives. Sure as sh!t if I grew up in Bleak City I'd probably think (like the rest of em) AFL is the pinnacle of sport and follow the Cats or some mob like that. Thank god I'm Sydney-bred.

I dont think League will ever be overtaken as the no1 sport in Sydney in my lifetime, but I'm also just as certain that AFL will not only survive, but grow its market too. What will be critical is League not losing any corporate dollars to the Swans. The Swans games at Telstra generate huge corporate dollars, and gate taking to-boot. Re-invested, their game will continue to grow. And as stated in the quote above, the AFL would love nothing more than for the Swans to win the comp. This is their holy grail, and a meal ticket into the Sydney market - biggest in the country. The NRL cannot underestimate this. Forget the talk of "we are not trying to compete with league" - that is their goal no question.

I used to think that the only people who followed AFL were ex-mexicans, gays and weird Sydney families. I've got an opinion now is that they are more like Amway members - A secret society in the community with great numbers, who sneakily coerce simple folk to join there group with the promise that there lives will be ever richer for the experience. Some - like me, realise the fraud that it truly is. Sadly, others remain trapped in the idea, lots of them.

I think you have it spot on there mate, 100% spot on. Along with Amway you could liken them to Jehovahs Witness' as well..

 

[dubby]

Why would they ever decide to go the the Central Coast?

More chance of Hoppa playing for the toffy Wallabies.

Because one John Singleton is very unhappy that the Central Coast was overlooked for a team he was going to develop. Remember the huge ruckus he caused not long ago and the protest he made at Gosford? Remember his threat that if the NRL did not support a team in Gosford, he would approach Union? I do!

Anti-Christ, i agree the corporate $$ are not in the NT or Tassie, i overlooked that, but what about Cairns? Large Vic population and large playing numbers...could be a sleeping giant? Population that of Townsville so its a possability.

My main concern tho is the bush....league is not what it was in some areas, but most of you guys are city folk who think life does not exist west of Penrith am i right?

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Cairns isn't even a blip on the AFL radar mate. NQ would be further down the list than Newcastle.

League has been the one major sport that has given the bush representation in their main comp. Canberra, Newy, NQ and the Gong to a lesser extent.

AFL has 1 team outside a capital city and that's Geelong which is 60 or 70k's frm Melbourne.

I think the only place outside of the 5 major cities that AFL are eyeing off is the Gold Coast. Apart from that it's Western Sydney, which is laughable, then nothing.

They're at the point where they really have nowhere else to go and they're going to have to move a team rather than start a new team. That will cause them problems too.

 

[Green Machine]

FFS, what are you on?

Have you ever heard of paragraphs?

AFL had their day in 1996, the combination of the Super League war and the popularity of one player gave them a banner year.

From then on it's been all downhill to now where they ran second or something like that yet they averaged 30k and sweet f**k all in the ratings.

It's taken them 25 years to get there.

The NRL aren't sitting on their hands, in fact they were absolutely pro-active in the fight against AFL when they announced that the 16th team was the Gold Coast.

How many people in Sydney listen to AFL games on the radio?

There's f**k all watching live games on TV so the amount of people listening on the radio would be a small percentage of that small percentage.

The subject of this topic is the administration of the NRL not how popular the AFL is in Sydney and South East Queensland. I for one, think David Gallop has done a very good job as CEO of the NRL. As for the people who set policy at the NRL (News Ltd and the ARL), I think their performance is pitiful.

I’ll put a paragraph in for you. A case in point would be the recent announcement to support Rugby League in Victoria. All the parties had done an outstanding job in abstracting a brand new stadium and Government funding out of the Victorian Government. News Ltd threw in some cash. One single State of Origin is moved to Melbourne as part of the sweetener to give Rugby League its best shot in Victoria. What happens? All hell breaks loose and everyone from the ARL and NRL are questioned as to why they did this from a radio shock jock who supposed to be a media partner. The amount of money we are spending in Victoria would be spash in the ocean compared to what the AFL are spending in NSW and QLD.

On the subject of media coverage of the AFL. I do not here a single complaint from anyone in the media, criticising the money the AFL is spending in Sydney and SEQ. I have not heard one TV executive come out say, running fifth in the ratings is bleeding us dry in advertising revenue. At 8.00pm tonight, the Swans will be on again. Next week the ratings will come out and the Eels V Broncos match will decimate their coverage. But, will there be any complaints in the media about poor viewing numbers? The AFL are going to keep coming. As for Saturday night Swans matches running fifth behind The Iron Chef, it might be funny, but look at the down side. The AFL through their awarding of TV contracts have got Channel 10 to offset their loss’s in Sydney against their Southern States viewing audience. The tragedy is 100,000 viewing audience in fifth means 100,000 Sydneysiders are being given the opportunity to watch AFL. What is Foxsports-1 viewing audience for NRL on a Saturday Night?

What about radio? What does Rugby League provide on a Saturday afternoon and on a Saturday night at 7.30pm? The NRL give out exclusive rights to a station that won’t broadcast games. At 1.00pm on Saturday I’m looking for some Rugby League talk or debate. Does the Rugby League put on a Premier League match with coverage for me? 2BL now cover AFL on Saturday afternoon. Johnny Gibbs calls Super 12's on Saturday night.

As for expansion, the AFL are at their potential as far as expansion goes. They don’t need to expand much more. They have total market supremacy with two teams in Adelaide and Perth. They have a team in both the Sydney and Brisbane markets. Tasmania and the Northern Territory will never have the population base to support a national league team of any code, but the AFL still stages games in these markets to satisfy their fans. What does the NRL do for fans in Perth and Adelaide? The WARL had to go out and recruit Cronulla to play a home in Perth so they could see Rugby League again. The AFL’s long term goal is to move two teams out of Melbourne. There are only two growth markets in Australia that have the potential to support for a national league side of any code. The jury is still out on Western Sydney but South East Queensland will be their next stop for sure. I hope the revamping of the Gold Coast NRL will claim back lost territory and dilute the interest in AFL. The points I raise are not to say the AFL will win over Western Sydney or take over NSW or Qld, but to say they are a very aggressive competitor. They are highly organised and a lot more professional than us,

 

[Green Machine]

People who keep bagging the Swans/AFL (like me) need to look at the unjustifiable coverage the sport gets in Sydney. It's a concern.

But in saying that, they have had a good ride for a long time now and still can't crack it for more than a niche.

The AFL knows it is going to cost them a lot of money to establish their game in our heartland. I recon I have come across at least 50 people in Sydney, through business and social functions that come from the Riverina, Victoria, Tasmania, South Australia or Western Australia and AFL is the sport they follow. The signs of AFL fans around Sydney may not be totally visible, but they are out there. Without a doubt, they have achieved a niche market and I think Rugby League has not put up much of a fight to stop them achieving this. And I don’t see any signs of the free ride stopping. Could you imagine, a morning sports show in Melbourne, that is broadcasted to the whole of Victoria, having a Rugby League fan as one of the hosts of the show?

 

[littleduck]

The AFL knows it is going to cost them a lot of money to establish their game in our heartland. I recon I have come across at least 50 people in Sydney, through business and social functions that come from the Riverina, Victoria, Tasmania, South Australia or Western Australia and AFL is the sport they follow. The signs of AFL fans around Sydney may not be totally visible, but they are out there. Without a doubt, they have achieved a niche market and I think Rugby League has not put up much of a fight to stop them achieving this. And I don’t see any signs of the free ride stopping. Could you imagine, a morning sports show in Melbourne, that is broadcasted to the whole of Victoria, having a Rugby League fan as one of the hosts of the show?

Any AFL supporter in Sydney right now would already have a long time allegiance to a team... therefore a Western Sydney AFL team would only succeed if it attracts 10s of thousands of new fans to the game... that might be difficult when there are 5 NRL teams in Western Sydney.

 

[Green Machine]

Any AFL supporter in Sydney right now would already have a long time allegiance to a team... therefore a Western Sydney AFL team would only succeed if it attracts 10s of thousands of new fans to the game... that might be difficult when there are 5 NRL teams in Western Sydney.

Littleduck,
Crowds are not a problem for the AFL in Sydney. The Swans home ground attendance this season is 31,516. The whole NRL’s average so far this season is 16,486. Maybe you should write to the AFL and tell them, they have it all wrong. So, with Parramatta Stadium sold out tonight, how did the NRL and Channel 9 present this game.

Early this season, Channel 9 approached the NRL a couple of days before the Tigers V Eagles clash to see if they would agree to a “Live” telecast. Channel 9 wanted to move the telecast to “Live” coverage so their Wimbledon coverage would not clash with the football. The NRL agreed.

A couple of blokes I work with went to Ticketek on Monday to purchase tickets for tonight’s Eels V Broncos clash. All they could get was seats in the corners. I think by Tuesday it was sold out. So, what was the NRL “Delayed” telecast up against tonight on FTA TV? Channel 10 was screening the West Coast Eagles V Swans “Live”. Over on Foxsports-1, the “A” League was screening a “Live” double header from Auckland and Adelaide. On radio, ABC Local (Sydney 2BL) radio was calling the AFL. 2MMM was also calling the AFL from Western Australia. Because of Channel 9's "Delayed" telecast, radio was locked out of Parramatta Stadium.

But wait for it, it gets better. Tomorrow night, Channel 7 is telecasting the Bledesloe Cup “Live” from New Zealand with the coverage starting at 5.00pm. Channel 7 have delayed their Saturday night news bulletin until the Rugby Union telecast is compete. This is very strange, considering Channel 9 will not let the NRL start their Grand Final coverage until their half hour news bulletin is competed. Channel 9 believes their nightly news is a institution and can not be moved. When the first night Grand Final was played in 2001, Channel 9 refused to move their 60 Minutes program. Channel 7 now leads Channel 9 in ratings for the nightly news bulletins.

Last season the NRL moved a Semi Final match to North Queensland in a couple of days. Sunday is sold out a Kogarah and Channel 9 has no AFL commitments so that means……………………..

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

The subject of this topic is the administration of the NRL not how popular the AFL is in Sydney and South East Queensland. I for one, think David Gallop has done a very good job as CEO of the NRL. As for the people who set policy at the NRL (News Ltd and the ARL), I think their performance is pitiful.

I find it difficult to criticise them because the game is booming, but there are obvious areas for improvement.

I’ll put a paragraph in for you.

It's an improvement, but you have a long way to go.

A case in point would be the recent announcement to support Rugby League in Victoria. All the parties had done an outstanding job in abstracting a brand new stadium and Government funding out of the Victorian Government. News Ltd threw in some cash. One single State of Origin is moved to Melbourne as part of the sweetener to give Rugby League its best shot in Victoria. What happens? All hell breaks loose and everyone from the ARL and NRL are questioned as to why they did this from a radio shock jock who supposed to be a media partner. The amount of money we are spending in Victoria would be spash in the ocean compared to what the AFL are spending in NSW and QLD.

You don't think that's the point?

The AFL have pumped tens of millions into Sydney, for what return?

15,000 spectators per week and poor ratings.

Should we go down the same track in a city that is more hostile to League than Sydney has ever been to AFL?

I applaud that we're giving it a shot, but I'm not confident.

On the subject of media coverage of the AFL. I do not here a single complaint from anyone in the media, criticising the money the AFL is spending in Sydney and SEQ.

I think the expectations for Sydney were fairly low to being with. The hops may have been high, but not the expectations.

That they've since dived again doesn't seem to phase anyone probably because the money has already been coughed up.

The problem for the AFL is the next round of TV contract action. If it's 7 and 10 only, AFL will take a bath.

I have not heard one TV executive come out say, running fifth in the ratings is bleeding us dry in advertising revenue. At 8.00pm tonight, the Swans will be on again. Next week the ratings will come out and the Eels V Broncos match will decimate their coverage. But, will there be any complaints in the media about poor viewing numbers? The AFL are going to keep coming. As for Saturday night Swans matches running fifth behind The Iron Chef, it might be funny, but look at the down side. The AFL through their awarding of TV contracts have got Channel 10 to offset their loss’s in Sydney against their Southern States viewing audience. The tragedy is 100,000 viewing audience in fifth means 100,000 Sydneysiders are being given the opportunity to watch AFL. What is Foxsports-1 viewing audience for NRL on a Saturday Night?

That's the point, the AFL have been coming and coming hard for 25 years for not much. They'll keep coming but Sydney has been saturated with the stuff for decades and it isn't working. If anything it's started a negative reaction.

I've heard figures larger than 100k for Super Saturday games, but I don't have them for Foxtel.

100,000 people is nothing. Fact is that 100k probably wouldn't even cover Victorian expats for the past 10 years.

What about radio? What does Rugby League provide on a Saturday afternoon and on a Saturday night at 7.30pm? The NRL give out exclusive rights to a station that won’t broadcast games. At 1.00pm on Saturday I’m looking for some Rugby League talk or debate. Does the Rugby League put on a Premier League match with coverage for me? 2BL now cover AFL on Saturday afternoon. Johnny Gibbs calls Super 12's on Saturday night.

2BL's AFL and Johnny Gibbs' Union audiences could fit comfortably in my shed.

When the radio rights are opened up again, they'll call League.

As for expansion, the AFL are at their potential as far as expansion goes. They don’t need to expand much more. They have total market supremacy with two teams in Adelaide and Perth. They have a team in both the Sydney and Brisbane markets. Tasmania and the Northern Territory will never have the population base to support a national league team of any code, but the AFL still stages games in these markets to satisfy their fans. What does the NRL do for fans in Perth and Adelaide? The WARL had to go out and recruit Cronulla to play a home in Perth so they could see Rugby League again. The AFL’s long term goal is to move two teams out of Melbourne. There are only two growth markets in Australia that have the potential to support for a national league side of any code. The jury is still out on Western Sydney but South East Queensland will be their next stop for sure. I hope the revamping of the Gold Coast NRL will claim back lost territory and dilute the interest in AFL. The points I raise are not to say the AFL will win over Western Sydney or take over NSW or Qld, but to say they are a very aggressive competitor. They are highly organised and a lot more professional than us,

Well, I agree with most of that but I don't believe they're as aggressive as you seem to think or they would have made the move to the Gold Coast before now. They have to move soon or they'll be presiding over the death of a couple of Melbourne Clubs.

And they should be absolutely petrified of Western Sydney. The money they've sunk into the Swans fjust to get a foot in the door will seem like a pittance compared to what they'll have to outlay to get even slight interest from Western Sydney.

The funny thing is I have a feeling that Western Sydney and the Gold Coast may both get AFL teams at the same time. My bet is the Western Bulldogs to Western Sydney and one of the other ailing teams to the Gold Coast.