Disappointing

Discussion in 'International' started by deluded pom?, Aug 20, 2020.

  1. deluded pom?

    deluded pom? Coach

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    https://www.totalrl.com/morgan-know...morgan-knowles-switches-allegiance-to-england

    “But first and foremost I’m a really proud Cumbrian. I was born in Barrow and I’m English and I want to play for my country.“

    Not THAT proud though. You’re English and want to play for your country. Then you should have thought about that when you were preventing genuine Welsh players from representing THEIR country.
     
  2. adamkungl

    adamkungl Immortal

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    As much as a pity it is to see players go from smaller countries to bigger countries, it will continue to happen while the sport relies heavily on heritage players, and fails to give countries outside the top 3 or 4 regular, meaningful matches and tournaments.

    The answer is not to make more restrictions, or to rig the system in any other way.
    The answer is just - be better. Do more pathway development. Play more international matches.
     
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  3. Dakink

    Dakink Bench

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    What Adam said. Need to get the smaller nations to a higher standard.

    I can see Fiji and PNG really growing to challenge in future years. Hope Tonga can maintain the standard but the smaller population makes it more difficult. The game runs the risk of Oceania leaving Europe behind, crucial time period for the game in England and Europe.
     
  4. Pommy

    Pommy Coach

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    You’re not telling me Wales believed he genuinely considered himself to be welsh when they picked him ahead of welsh players are you?
    We’re you as upset when Fifita etc defected to Tonga?
     
  5. deluded pom?

    deluded pom? Coach

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    Fifita jumping to Tonga strengthens a weaker team. Knowles jumping to England weakens a weaker team. At least Fifita has stuck with Tonga. Will Knowles jump back if England don’t select him for the WC? It’s the hypocrisy I don’t like. Proud to play for (use) a tier 2 nation until their actual country comes knocking.
     
  6. Pommy

    Pommy Coach

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    Having good younger players play for developing nations strengthens them.
    I’m not against us having FIFA like rules with eligibility but I’m the first to admit it would result in a weaker competition.
    Why would any young Englishman play for another home nation if they couldn’t then ply for England later on. We would end up in a situation like where Shola Ameobi held out playing for Nigeria until he was about 30 and had zero chance of getting an England cap.

    I hate the hypocrisy of fans deciding which way players should be able to move in relation to their nations.
     
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  7. deluded pom?

    deluded pom? Coach

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    Wane has already come out and said he won’t pick any Australian Englishmen but is happy to select players from another nation.
     
  8. Pommy

    Pommy Coach

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    But this guy is from Barrow, unless things have changed due to Covid it’s not another nation.
     
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  9. langpark

    langpark First Grade

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    This will always happen and the benefits are mutual to both the player and the tier 2-3 nations.

    Also, I genuinely believe a lot of these players are up front about this when a smaller nations comes knocking early in their career. Wales are not stupid, they would rather these players for a few years, rather than never at all.
     
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  10. deluded pom?

    deluded pom? Coach

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    Wane has obviously been in his ear.
     
  11. deluded pom?

    deluded pom? Coach

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    He’s repped for Wales since U16s. It’s not just a few years.
     
  12. Pommy

    Pommy Coach

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    Utter f**king drivel.

    heaps of English people have relatives from other home nations, I had a Scottish grandfather. I don’t consider myself Scottish but I would have considered playing for them if I knew down the line it wouldn’t stop me playing for England had I been good enough at any sport.
    I reckon the same would apply for the other home nations.
     
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  13. deluded pom?

    deluded pom? Coach

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    OK, if you say so
     
  14. adamkungl

    adamkungl Immortal

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    It's mutually beneficial. I don't see how it's hypocritical or damaging to Wales.
    Better to have a handful of elite players sometimes, than never.
    No one's forcing them to pick English-born players are they?
    If England don't pick him, Wales would be silly not to, if he's interested.

    Blaming players for maximising their career opportunities instead of throwing it away for the greater good is a waste of breath, and unfair.
    Playing for Wales, Knowles might get a couple of games a year, or might not get any. In front of a handful of fans, against reserve grade footballers. Last year showed he won't even get a look in for GB.
    Playing for England he would get trips to Aus/NZ, a chance at winning a World Cup, a chance at NRL opportunities.


    All that said - if countries like Wales were getting real events every year, this would happen far less.
    You want to see change? This needs to happen:

    -England in Euros every 2 years. Euros go to a 4N format to increase competitive intensity and reduce costs.

    -Smaller nations getting guaranteed tour games v visiting Aus or NZ

    -GB tour locked in every 4 years. I think this would be beneficial for Wales if treated right.
    a) Welsh players getting a fair look for GB
    b) England (Knights) playing Celtic combined - as a GB selection trial - annually instead of proposed Exiles nonsense.
    c) GB tour in the 3rd year (2020, 2024, 2028), after Europe WC qualifications are finished so not clashing.

    Annually - England Knights v Celtic (best of 3)
    2021 - World Cup
    2022 - Euros vs England, France, Ireland. Test vs visiting Australia.
    2023 - WC-Qualifiers OR (if already qualified) 4N tournament with other qualified nations.
    2024 - GB Tour. Euros simultaneously.
    2025 - World Cup

    The RLEF and smaller nations are actually very close to the above.
    The Euro format is a bit of a mess, but the real missing piece is England.
    Need the RFL and England to buy in. Same as we need Australia to do better in the Pacific.
    Unfortunately, prioritising the Exiles concept as discussed in the last few weeks shows they are looking the wrong way, again. (And Australia are more interested in playing the All Blacks than playing Rugby League...)
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2020
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  15. Pommy

    Pommy Coach

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    I can’t believe you as someone who’s grown up in England thinks this guy actually thinks he’s welsh and has been talked in to plying for England by the coach. The guys twitter has himself down as a proud Cumbrian not a proud Welshman.
    you’ve invented a scenario in your head and are trying to pass it off as fact.
     
  16. yakstorm

    yakstorm Bench

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    He really isn't switching allegiances is he? I mean he is still eligible for Wales and if he isn't lacing up for England, he can pull on a Dragons jersey. He just wants to put himself in contention for an England jersey, if the time is right.

    The reality is, what Knowles has done is what the vast majority of players who are eligible for both a T2 and T1 nation do (the likes of Fifita and JT are in the minority), so its a bit hard to criticise him, especially as other have said, Wales isn't really providing him with huge opportunities.

    For me, at least now by having the current eligibility rules, we don't run the risk of Knowles ending up like Brough, who was forced to pick between Scotland and England and then pretty much didn't play international football between 2009 - 2012 (outside of one game for England against the Exiles) even though he wanted to play for someone.
     
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  17. deluded pom?

    deluded pom? Coach

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    “England coach Wane said: “I have been aware of Morgan for quite a while now, he is a player I admire greatly. His skilful and competitive way of playing really suits what we want to see from an England player. I am sure he will play a big part within our England top squad and the success we will have”
    .So Shaun Wane makes comments in the article I quoted and you don’t think he’s told Knowles he’s a chance for England!
     
  18. deluded pom?

    deluded pom? Coach

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    Neither are England. When did they last play?
     
  19. Pommy

    Pommy Coach

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    I don’t think he’s been talking him around, I’m sure he always wanted to play for England would if the opportunity arose. I don’t think it’s a situation like Semi being talked in to leaving Fiji as you’re suggesting. The guy is English born and bred.
     
  20. deluded pom?

    deluded pom? Coach

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    With a Welsh mother. :rolleyes:
     

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