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diving..

AlwaysGreen

Immortal
Messages
49,241
You have to take the video ref out of it completely. I'm not a ref basher or a video ref basher but I am a self confessed touch judge basher. These merkins stand on the sideline with their little f**king flags and do nothing all game except signal a ball or player is out or that a goal is scored and even then the dopey gimps can't do it right. They should assist the refs on stuff like milking penalties and diving.

And the penalty/kick for touch rule needs an overhaul. If a penalty is warranted it should be six again for acts of foul play and 3 more tackles for lesser offences. If sides keep making these minor offences bin the captain or the repeat offender. Teams milk penalties because they know a touch finder and a new set of six changes the games momentum.

And suspend the divers and milkers post game. Fining them is not a deterrent. The clubs will pay it anyway and we all know clubs will pay any price for success.

PS: all touch judges should be shot on sight.
 

Quidgybo

Bench
Messages
3,054
If you take a dive to milk a penalty, have to leave the field. Video ref reviews it, if it worth a penalty free interchange, if not you lose an interchange.

I'd work it slightly differently.

If through apparent injury a player forces the referee to stop the clock then the player has to leave the field and see a doctor for two minutes. He can be interchanged immediately (at cost) or he can return to the field after two minutes if the doctor clears him.

And eliminate free interchanges. If the tackle is illegal then the referee can penalise the foul play and place the offender on report or send him off. But that has no effect on what happens to the player who stayed down, he must still leave the field. He's clearly too injured to play on before being cleared by a doctor.

So if you take a dive then you'll either cost your team an unnecessary interchange, or leave them down to 12 men for two minutes. Either way, it's you sitting on the sideline. If you're really unable to get up and play the ball then you need to see a doctor anyway and your team will have to use an interchange. That's why you have 10 of them.

Leigh.
 
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Danish

Referee
Messages
31,974
All the NRL needs to do is make any player who forces play to be stopped due to an alleged head injury must leave the field and complete a concussion check with an NRL supplied, independent doctor.

The test would take about 2-3 mins to complete, and the team would be docked an interchange to bring the player off and on, unless foul play is deemed the cause.

Do that, and watch players suddenly stop laying down overnight.

It also has the added benefit of increasing player welfare as team trainers will not be able to force concussed players to go back on and risk serious injury

:edit: didn't actually read all through the thread, just posted my thoughts on the issue as I've stated them on here before. Turns out my opinion lines up almost word for word with Quidgy's above :lol:
 
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dogslife

Coach
Messages
18,746
It's good in theory.

But last night the video ref intervened and deemed that not only was it a penalty, but Horo deserved to be put on report. Mind boggling stuff
 

Packy

Bench
Messages
4,243
i think the issue is the punishment/reward from penalties. We have to have them but when dubious ones are given late in the count it can change a game. And even worse is that the refs get it wrong too. How many times do you see a good kick chase get the ball receiver and the next play a penalty goes to the attacking team cos the D was eager.. The refs blow on suspicion far too often.

Maybe a limit to the distance you can get with a kick for touch or an automatic 10/20 metres instead..
 

Loudstrat

Coach
Messages
15,224
Who was the players rep with the VR? Do they get a say in such matters? And if so, why did they not say "That was a f*cking love tap on a milk maid - play on"?
 

Danish

Referee
Messages
31,974
It's good in theory.

But last night the video ref intervened and deemed that not only was it a penalty, but Horo deserved to be put on report. Mind boggling stuff


Inglis would still have to go off and miss 3-5 minutes getting checked our and given the all clear though. Just wouldn't cost them any interchanges.


Would he still have stated down knowing he'd miss at least the next 2 attacking sets?
 

Jason Maher

Immortal
Messages
35,981
The worst thing about the GI incident was that it was a team effort. A trainer ran on immediately, presumably under instruction from Madge, to tell GI to stay down.
 

jc155776

Coach
Messages
13,517
Wonder what all the dragons fans in here who hate diving think of weymans effort? As soon as scum was called he makes a miraculous recovery....
 

Willow

Assistant Moderator
Messages
109,092
Well JC, I think any player found guilty of diving should be suspended. There first needs to be proof of course but anything that stamps it out of the game has my vote. I like Danish's and Quidgybo's suggestions as well.

It's nothing new, unfortunately. But does seem to have been on the increase over the last 5 years or so.

Uncertainty over `diving
ANTONY STEWART
June 16th, 2007

Paul-Gallen.jpg
FAIR OR FOUL ... Paul Gallen attracted criticism for staying down after being hit high during last Monday's clash against the Dragons. A Dragons player was later penalised.


JUST try to picture it.
There is two minutes to go in the grand final, the Cowboys are leading by one point, right in front of their own posts and working the ball out of their own 20m zone.
Then, as Matt Bowen takes a dart out of dummy-half, the force of the tackle from Melbourne defender Dallas Johnson causes the fullback to stay down.
As per the NRL's slight modifications to refereeing interpretations this week, which attempts to prevent players feigning injury to acquire a video referee-spotted penalty, Bowen must give up the ball so a teammate can play the ball 5m to his left.
However in his legitimately groggy state Bowen doesn't hand over the pill as quickly as he probably should.
This puts referee Paul Simpkins in a difficult situation.
He's left wondering: "Is Bowen actually hurt or just trying to waste time in an effort to ensure North Queensland claim the premiership?"
If Simpkins decides on the latter then he now must penalise the Cowboys for time wasting.
It's not a change to the interpretation but the newly announced strict enforcement of the existing rule following a spate of actor-type penalties in the middle of the season.
As a result, Storm hooker Cameron Smith lines up a shot and kicks the penalty goal that hands Melbourne the NRL crown for 2007.
OK, so this is a pretty extreme example and it probably will never happen but the fact is it could.
The whole `faking injury to allow the video referee to have a look and get a penalty' thing has been around for a while, but it has probably never received more attention then when Cronulla's Paul Gallen clearly `took a dive' last Monday.
It led to the NRL putting out a media release outlining some modifications to the rules to act as a `disincentive for players feigning injury'.
But if anything, the grand final example from above proves that no matter what rules are put in place, there is always going to be a grey area that is going to lead to controversy.
If Simpkins doesn't award the penalty and Bowen was indeed faking then the Storm cry foul after the match and say he cost them a premiership.
Alternatively, if he does and Bowen ends up spending the night in hospital, North Queensland have just as a legitimate right to cry foul and Simpkins once again cops the blame.
Leaving it up to the referee to decide on a potentially match-turning penalty based on whether one player is a better actor than another just is not fair on the man in the middle.
So perhaps the blame should not be pointed at the ref in those situations.
The responsibility should be totally on the shoulders of the players.
If someone wants to stay down, that's fine – it's gamesmanship and you don't want to lose that or you will risk turning rugby league into a game played by robots.
But if they choose to do it, they should be the ones to cop the ramifications – the media scrutiny and public disgust – and the potential lifelong reputation that accompanies it.
If that happens you will soon find `diving' becoming a thing of the past and we can all get back to enjoying real footy.
http://www.cowboysstampede.com.au/showthread.php?4008-League-Lines-Uncertainty-over-diving-(16Jun07)
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,365
hate it.

sick of seeing players deliberately stay down to milk the penalty..

saw a classic case of it last night where a player was hit on the shoulder, he stays down until the ref blows a penalty and puts the offender on report.

said 'victim' then gets up perfectly fine and winks at the player who was put on report..

seeing more and more cases happen each weekend, and of course towards the end of the game when a penalty is more critical we see the diving / milking happen more often..

what can be done to stamp it out? don't want to hear people say it's gamesmanship, or 'part of the game'.. we are playing football, not acting..

to me, it's cheating.

Ive seen a few stay down that have resulted in no penaly - play on - play the ball- not many tho

Most that stay down have been fouled, either copped one in the nose or chin (like GI the other night)....he probably couldve gotten up immediately if he wanted to - these are tough men, but he did no wrong - the tackler that hit him in the chin did....most replays show penalty warranted

Just because its missed initially doesnt mean it didnt happen
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,365
Well JC, I think any player found guilty of diving should be suspended. There first needs to be proof of course but anything that stamps it out of the game has my vote. I like Danish's and Quidgybo's suggestions as well.

It's nothing new, unfortunately. But does seem to have been on the increase over the last 5 years or so.

Uncertainty over `diving
ANTONY STEWART
June 16th, 2007

Paul-Gallen.jpg
FAIR OR FOUL ... Paul Gallen attracted criticism for staying down after being hit high during last Monday's clash against the Dragons. A Dragons player was later penalised.


JUST try to picture it.
There is two minutes to go in the grand final, the Cowboys are leading by one point, right in front of their own posts and working the ball out of their own 20m zone.
Then, as Matt Bowen takes a dart out of dummy-half, the force of the tackle from Melbourne defender Dallas Johnson causes the fullback to stay down.
As per the NRL's slight modifications to refereeing interpretations this week, which attempts to prevent players feigning injury to acquire a video referee-spotted penalty, Bowen must give up the ball so a teammate can play the ball 5m to his left.
However in his legitimately groggy state Bowen doesn't hand over the pill as quickly as he probably should.
This puts referee Paul Simpkins in a difficult situation.
He's left wondering: "Is Bowen actually hurt or just trying to waste time in an effort to ensure North Queensland claim the premiership?"
If Simpkins decides on the latter then he now must penalise the Cowboys for time wasting.
It's not a change to the interpretation but the newly announced strict enforcement of the existing rule following a spate of actor-type penalties in the middle of the season.
As a result, Storm hooker Cameron Smith lines up a shot and kicks the penalty goal that hands Melbourne the NRL crown for 2007.
OK, so this is a pretty extreme example and it probably will never happen but the fact is it could.
The whole `faking injury to allow the video referee to have a look and get a penalty' thing has been around for a while, but it has probably never received more attention then when Cronulla's Paul Gallen clearly `took a dive' last Monday.
It led to the NRL putting out a media release outlining some modifications to the rules to act as a `disincentive for players feigning injury'.
But if anything, the grand final example from above proves that no matter what rules are put in place, there is always going to be a grey area that is going to lead to controversy.
If Simpkins doesn't award the penalty and Bowen was indeed faking then the Storm cry foul after the match and say he cost them a premiership.
Alternatively, if he does and Bowen ends up spending the night in hospital, North Queensland have just as a legitimate right to cry foul and Simpkins once again cops the blame.
Leaving it up to the referee to decide on a potentially match-turning penalty based on whether one player is a better actor than another just is not fair on the man in the middle.
So perhaps the blame should not be pointed at the ref in those situations.
The responsibility should be totally on the shoulders of the players.
If someone wants to stay down, that's fine ? it's gamesmanship and you don't want to lose that or you will risk turning rugby league into a game played by robots.
But if they choose to do it, they should be the ones to cop the ramifications ? the media scrutiny and public disgust ? and the potential lifelong reputation that accompanies it.
If that happens you will soon find `diving' becoming a thing of the past and we can all get back to enjoying real footy.
http://www.cowboysstampede.com.au/showthread.php?4008-League-Lines-Uncertainty-over-diving-(16Jun07)



LOL.
Antony Stewart...who's this f;wit?
 

DC_fan

Coach
Messages
11,980
Every club has a diver. Could be that every player is a diver. If it come down to getting an advantage for your team through a penalty tell me which player wouldn't do it.
 
Messages
15,545
Simple rule change can eliminate the problem. If the 4 officials on field miss the penalty, then bad luck. If the offence is reportable then it goes on record and is reviewed post game by the judiciary regardless, but a penalty is not awarded posthumously.
 

Springs

First Grade
Messages
5,682
Agree. Hate it. Just another thing that separates the NRL (and ESL, if they dive over there) from the rest of the sport. Get rid of the video ref altogether.
 
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