Do we need an cap on third party agreements?

[cleary89]

TK on the roast today said he knows managers go to clubs and say "I want 500k plus 100k third party" and the club goes and finds the 100k.

We all know it happens. It's just a way around the salary cap.

 

[oikee]

And if an idea like that is implemented Oikee it makes fans keeping track of the cap far easier and a site like CapGeek for the NHL would probably pop up rather quickly for the NRL.

Exactly. It is a common sense system that makes sense to you and me, and even other top class leagues around the world.
The problem we still have is oldschool.
Clubs ,top clubs can easily find 3rd parties.
Somehow the brakes need to be put on that while rewarding clubs that bring through juniors, like the Tigers have just shown with Tedesco, i mean come on.
If another club buys him off the Tigers, or Brooks, then we might as well all walk away from the game.

This code is hanging on a knife-edge now if you ask me. Fans are tired, sick, and feeling old from backing this lame duck.
We expect improvements, and at the moment we are yet to see rewards from clubs who develop juniors.
I am not going to go off half-cocked, because i think only now we are seeing changes, and i will give Smith and Doyle and Greenburg and co 4 years until i make judgement.

The Salary cap amendments dont come in until next year. So no good worrying about it until we see the outcome.

All i know is every system has faults. I would love to see the salary cap worth of players on a chart system and as you said, it quickly becomes part of the code.

cheers. coast tigers, cheers as well.

 

[Game_Breaker]

Hasn't it already been confirmed that Fifita's contract won't be registered under the salary cap for anything way under his market value?

 

[BunniesMan]

Hasn't it already been confirmed that Fifita's contract won't be registered under the salary cap for anything way under his market value?

Yes that's true for all contracts but the issue is how is market value defined. The common sense view would be what any other team is offering, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Pete Cash]

That's another thing the nrl could do which is set a minimum contract value for each player but that's pretty subjective imo.

 

[Eion]

Transparency would be a good start. All contracts (including tpa's) should be made public.

I reckon there would be some pretty diabolical arrangements out there...

 

[Game_Breaker]

Yes that's true for all contracts but the issue is how is market value defined. The common sense view would be what any other team is offering, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

That won't work IMO

What would stop a club offering an inflated bid knowing they won't be able to sign player X, just so they could apply pressure on their rivals salary cap

 

[georgesnmith]

the people here saying the ARLC should have minimum contract for player's, would they be the same ones complaining when israel folau went to the ARU?

 

[Jaegerex]

No third party deals are supposed to have nothing to do with who the players for. Otherwise they wouldn't be THIRD party deals, they'd be a way of giving some teams bigger caps. Which is what some people say we currently have even know it is against the spirit of the rules.

So BM if you started personally sponsoring Inglis and next year he went to the Roosters you would continue to sponsor Inglis?
I do know what you mean but I believe you missed my meaning, anyone should be able to sponsor anyone they wish as long as both parties agree, if someone then wishes to stop said sponsorship for a change in circumstances they should have every right too.
BUT and a big but, third party deals should have zero presence in contract negotiations, currently the rules only stop the club negotiating these deals or guaranteeing them, there is nothing to stop a third party sitting in and making an offer to a player if they sign for said club.

 

[BunniesMan]

That won't work IMO

What would stop a club offering an inflated bid knowing they won't be able to sign player X, just so they could apply pressure on their rivals salary cap

Because most players would agree to the inflated bid and then that club would be stuffed.

 

[STORM.99/07]

When a Dodgers pitcher can earn $33 mil a season then it makes our salary cap look like an insignificant amount of money.I think all the top players in the NRL should be paid what they are worth not the mere pittance they are paid.
rooney earns 500,000 pounds a game.

 

[BunniesMan]

Rooney plays in the biggest sport on the planet.

And the major american sports cater to a country of 315 odd million people. There's about 10 million people per team for most of the major sports. Here we're closer to 1 million per team and they're no where near as evenly distributed as they are in the US.

We punch way above our weight when it comes to sport but comparing us to Europe or America is ridiculous.

 

[STORM.99/07]

I am not comparing us to USA & Europe but I think if our elite sportsman gets a chance to be paid well then they should be able to.

 

[Perth Red]

As I have said I am not against third party agreements and players making as much as they can.

What I am against is a player making $1 million dollars but being in a clubs Salary Cap at $400,000 for example. This gives too much advantage to some clubs.

I think the NRL have to decide what every player is worth under the Salary Cap and make sure that every team does no exceed the designated Salary Cap.

This would not allow teams to have all the best talent. It would also not stop players from earning more than what the NRL designated their value under the cap.

The NRL want the Salary Cap and they do want a even competition it may get to the stage were they have to decide what a players Salary Cap level should be.

Maybe the answer is that salary negotiations have to be shared with the NRL salary dept. this way they could see if anything suspect is occurring in terms of a club offering a lot less yet managing to sign the player. If club a offers $500k and club b $700k yet player signs with club a it would be clear something is going on.

 

[Sunshine Coast Tiger]

the people here saying the ARLC should have minimum contract for player's, would they be the same ones complaining when israel folau went to the ARU?

I wished Izzy stayed in NRL but I don't begrudge him tacking big money from rugby.

It would have been interesting to know if his contract would have been registered by the previous salary cap auditor if it was at a different club than the Eels. I can think of a few clubs that would have made a way for it to work

The NRL in the case of Izzy deal with the Eels were really tough about the value he had to be included at under the salary cap. They set a standard but did they implement it amongst all clubs since?

Brett Finch on the roast today mentioned the best teams in the NBA, AFL and EPL get the best talent.

The first two codes he mentioned have a player draft. This allows for the clubs that finish at the bottom to get the first pick of the best young talent. I believe the minimum contract for a drafted player in the NBA is 3 years plus options. In the AFL I believe it is 2 years.

If you get great young talent in your club for a minimum of 2-3 years it is up to the organisation to provide an environment were they want to stay longer.

The EPL is totally different they have no salary cap. They do have transfer fees. For example Wayne Rooney was an Everton junior/academy player. When he was sold for millions to Manchester United, Everton got the vast majority of that money. This gives Everton the opportunity to use that money and sign other players it also gives them a reason to keep investing in their junior programs.

The NRL will never have a draft and has no transfer fees. The even salary cap should see clubs rewarded for developing junior talent but it doesn't work in practice. The inability for the NRL to police third party agreements and ensure players are placed in the salary cap at a proper value not the heavily discounted value that many clubs use has made it a very unlevel playing field. Other codes with salary caps like the NFL are totally transparent in what players are paid under the cap. The NFL want the salary cap to work and they are the biggest sport in the USA, they rarely have any team dominate for extended periods of time. For example I doubt any team would have made the playoffs as many times as the Brisbane Broncos have in the last 15 years. They also have a draft system.

Was the salary cup designed for rich clubs to pick up the best junior talent from poorer clubs? Was it good when clubs like Manly in the past raided strong junior clubs like Wests Magpies and South Sydney? I was around to watch that and I never want to see that again.

The NRL need to re-work the salary cup for the good of the game. The NRL works best the more good teams there are. They should find ways to encourage clubs who invest in juniors by giving them greater concessions and making sure that players that move to other clubs are included in their new clubs salary cap at proper levels. Unfortunately I don't think it will happen to many rich clubs have far too much influence on our game.

 

[oikee]

Sunshine coaster. They need to change the way the system is at the moment because it looks ridiculous and can be seen to be so. I mean even Mention of the Roosters wanting to buy Tedesco makes our game look and sound so backward, amateur.
And Manly buying Penriths junior Santini when they already have young international play makers as in Forun and Cherry evans. Why try to bottle all our best talent.
I mean just yesterday we had the code come out and say we have not got the talent to add more expansion teams. ?????
Well if we are going to alow clubs to buy and hide our talent then no, we never will.
satini should have gone to the Broncos, who need a five-eight, we are useing a winger at the moment to play stand-off, and the Titans had Harrison as a five-eight, you might as well just put a muppet in this position because he is about as good as one in this role.

And then you had the dragons with Sam Willimas who is useless as tits on a mule and Quinlan who is not really that good a fullback just yet.

So we have clubs playing amateurs while Manly and Roosters want to hoard these young superstars.
That is not working, and it is obvious it needs fixing.
Gus Gould talked about a halves academy, maybe that is a idea, and have a few halves on stand-by with option of being paid for by the clubs and then can be bought by the clubs who need these players, not just because you want to lock them away for a rainy day.

If Manly want Satini, good, sell Cherry-Evans to Brisbane now, not in two years time,
Brisbane needs him now.
The way the NRL is run now is only protecting clubs from going backwards, and they dont want more pain of losing crowds and fans . They are too scared of change and cant see the forest behind all the barriers they have put up.

Change is coming, they had better get it right because we will have to see alot of upheavil which should have been sorted last super league war.
The code not only went backwards then, it also got everything so totally wrong with mergers and culling teams in cities.
Only a crazy fool culls the second Brisbane team, a code hellbent on killing itself, and that is what we are seeing, a code struggling to grow now.