'downtown' rule

[Cammo]

No they aren't. A downtown offender can't be played onside by an opposition player touching the ball.

Simply by running past the play the ball before the ball is kicked past you it's an automatic penalty. You can't be played onside, you can't stay 10m away and it's ok, it's just a penalty.

The whole purpose of the rule is to stop lazy forwards from getting an easy headstart downfield so they don't get as tired chasing the kick.

Then why are only a couple of people on this forum talking about it and it's not something picked up by anyone else? No commentator mentioned it, no journalist has mentioned it

Also you need to let the coaches know who train us junior footy refs to change the way they train us then, as we are taught to interpret the rule as the player is deemed onside if the opposition plays at the ball and they are not within 10 meters of the play, therefore have no involvement in the play.

Cause you obviously know the rule better than them

 

[Cammo]

I am not even claiming it was a try, the pass was a mile forward and it should have been called back. Just should not have been called back for offside

 

[innsaneink]

Section 14. Law 3.

Placed onside
3. An off side player is placed onside if:
(a) an opponent moves ten metres or more with the
ball.
(b) an opponent touches the ball without retaining it.
(c) one of his own team in possession of the ball
runs in front of him.
(d) one of his own team kicks or knocks the ball
forward and takes up a position in front of him in
the field of play.
(e) he retires behind the point where the ball was last
touched by one of his own team.​

 

[mxlegend99]

The rules clearly state that when Manly played at the ball and lost it, the players were all onside. The only way they could have been penalised is if they were inside the 10, or if the Sea Eagles had retained the ball and they tackled him before running 10 metres.

The notes don't contradict this, so it was a fair try as far as a video referee is able to rule. Given the only play which was illegal was the forward pass which can't be ruled on by a video referee.

 

[Danish]

For f**ks sake offside is different to downtown.

Offside is simply in front of the kicker. An offside player can be played onside.

A downtown player cannot be played onside. A downtown player does not need to affect the play or come within 10m, it's a straight penalty as soon as it's done.

It was introduced after the dragons and a few others used to send their big props jogging upfield on the last to get an easy jog downfield. They were jogging down field in a line, then staying outside the 10 so as not to be offside. This was deemed an unfair advantage and the "downtown" rule was introduced to stop its practice.

People aren't talking about it for the same reason the video ref didn't penalise it. They don't know the rules

 

[Cammo]

For f**ks sake offside is different to downtown.

Offside is simply in front of the kicker. An offside player can be played onside.

A downtown player cannot be played onside. A downtown player does not need to affect the play or come within 10m, it's a straight penalty as soon as it's done.

It was introduced after the dragons and a few others used to send their big props jogging upfield on the last to get an easy jog downfield. They were jogging down field in a line, then staying outside the 10 so as not to be offside. This was deemed an unfair advantage and the "downtown" rule was introduced to stop its practice.

People aren't talking about it for the same reason the video ref didn't penalise it. They don't know the rules

Ladies and Gentleman, let me present Danish our new refs boss, the only one who knows the rules :sarcasm:

 

[Danish]

Ladies and Gentleman, let me present Danish our new refs boss, the only one who knows the rules :sarcasm:

It ain't hard, you just have to read the book they are written in.

"Any player who is in front of the kicker in general play is not permitted to advance beyond the point of the previous play- the-ball until the ball has gone past the offside players."

Downtown isn't offside. It is an immediate penalty offence that an offside player can commit.

 

[Jaegerex]

Then why are only a couple of people on this forum talking about it and it's not something picked up by anyone else? No commentator mentioned it, no journalist has mentioned it

Also you need to let the coaches know who train us junior footy refs to change the way they train us then, as we are taught to interpret the rule as the player is deemed onside if the opposition plays at the ball and they are not within 10 meters of the play, therefore have no involvement in the play.

Cause you obviously know the rule better than them

He actually does, Danish is correct. A downtown penalty occurs the moment of the kick, not the moment of collection or deflection. It is one of those rules added, in the headlines for a couple weeks and then generally forgotten about. I had myself forgotten completely about it until it was mentioned last night and then assumed they had dropped it after teams generally stopped doing it, but it is still in the 2014 rules still.
As it isn't a common issue I would guess it has dropped out of most peoples memory and they just revert to the basic onside rule they have lived with for most of their life.

Edit: Considering people, players, commentators and coaches have at times forgotten the changes to losing the ball while scoring that happened this year, I wouldn't be surprised if this rule implemented 4 years ago has just gone out of sight, out of mind.

 

[Marshall_magic]

Has there been a downtown penalty in the past 3 years? How many times has it been committed and how many times has it been pinged? The rule has gone the way of the cannonball and the voluntary tackle, according to the rulebook you can't do it, but on the field no one cares.

 

[Jaegerex]

Has there been a downtown penalty in the past 3 years? How many times has it been committed and how many times has it been pinged? The rule has gone the way of the cannonball and the voluntary tackle, according to the rulebook you can't do it, but on the field no one cares.

Don't forget the third man in tackling the legs, lots of crackdown at the start of the year, then we get 3 months of barely anything despite the odd one still going through.
As you said, technically it is illegal but no one really remembers, and if they do, don't care. You would expect when being scrutinised by the video ref though, those odd rulings everyone forgets, would be picked up.

 

[Apey]

The video refs didn't pick up on it therefore it must be the correct ruling.

#Cammologic

 

[Cammo]

He actually does, Danish is correct. A downtown penalty occurs the moment of the kick, not the moment of collection or deflection. It is one of those rules added, in the headlines for a couple weeks and then generally forgotten about. I had myself forgotten completely about it until it was mentioned last night and then assumed they had dropped it after teams generally stopped doing it, but it is still in the 2014 rules still.
As it isn't a common issue I would guess it has dropped out of most peoples memory and they just revert to the basic onside rule they have lived with for most of their life.

Edit: Considering people, players, commentators and coaches have at times forgotten the changes to losing the ball while scoring that happened this year, I wouldn't be surprised if this rule implemented 4 years ago has just gone out of sight, out of mind.

Well current junior refs are not trained to enforce a rule that is an automatic penalty, and also are told that a "downtown" player can be played onside. So all it comes down to is what the current interpretation of the rule is. It is not treated as a separate rule.

In it's current state, that was a try (although the forward pass should have negated it anyway) Not all rules that are written down are currently enforced or used

Look at this current rule on Scrums as an example

"Both prop forwards, on the side where the ball is put into the scrum, MUST have their outside feet forward and the halfback must feed the ball into the scrum using the space between their feet. All players must remain in the scrum until the ball is out of the scrum."

The above almost never happens, yet no one cries about that because it is not a rule enforced anymore. No Halfback feeds the ball between the two opposing Props feet

I can understand if reading solely on what the rules say and using it as a separate situation to offside then yes it would be a penalty. But he current "downtown" rule as written in the rules is not the current ruling on the field. Therefore it was a try as explained earlier because the Manly player playing at the ball put the bulldogs player onside

 

[Cammo]

The video refs didn't pick up on it therefore it must be the correct ruling.

#Cammologic

Works for me

 

[some11]

I vaguely remember a stepping off the mark/proper play the ball "crackdown" a few years ago.

Refs gave up after 5 rounds.

 

[Jaegerex]

That works for me Cammo, as I said I had thought they had scrapped it due to being one of those things never enforced.
They just need to make sure their rule book matches and is updated to how they want to rule on the game. As you mentioned, the scrum rules could use tweaking and what not. Like they have been over the years on grounding rules so letter of the law rulings don't award tries to knock ons.

 

[Lossy]

On Roosters-Sharks pre-match, Kimmorley said he confirmed with Russell Smith that it was a downtown and shouldn't have been awarded.

Danish beats Cammo by KO.

 

[Jaegerex]

Also worth noting, if downtown can be played onside by not being inside the 10 it is identical to a regular offside so they may as well scrap it.

 

[insert.pause]

Referees dept confirmed today that the final Bulldogs try v Manly should have been ruled No Try. Brown out of play - downtown. Warren Smith (@WarrenSmithFOX)

 

[Danish]

I'll take my apology whenever you are ready cammo

Perhaps the NRL should take me on as a consultant to teach the refs the rules :sarcasm:

 

[Dutchy]

Mightn't make a difference to the result, but that 12 point f/a difference could prove costly come MP/Top 4 etc with how close the comp is.