Dr Chris Anderson MD Strikes Again

[Shark]

This is in today's Herald regarding Phil Bailey's 'rise' to Origin and Test Match footy this year.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/11/24/1069522513989.html

Onya Bails, we're all really proud of ya, and all that...But mate, you're a bloody dope. I don't care if you have a broken big toe or a brain tumor - If you're injured, and further play means you risk doing greater harm to yourself, then you need a reality check. Test and Origin jumpers are simply NOT worth more than your health. They never really have been, despite what the romantics from the 1970s and selfish coaches may tell you.

NO PLAYER should EVER listen to the advice their Coach gives them regarding injuries. Doctors, especially expert doctors who specialise in sporting, neck, muscular and orthopedic injuries, study at University and work in Teaching Hospitals for years - Often 10 or more years for a top specialist - so that they can advise people with injuries on the best course of action to recover.

Footy coaches have none of this expertise.

So, I have to ask: What on Earth is Chris Anderson doing, threatening players with injuries to 'play on or I won't pick you for the big games'??? Furthermore, why is a guy like Phil Bailey listening to him?

Anderson tried this on with Paul Mellor last year, who had a back problem that threatened to get worse without the proper treatment and recovery. The order was 'do as you're told or you're out of the squad', despite Mellor being on a strict treatment program prescribed by a top spinal specialist.

Honestly? I reckon if Joey Johns, Gorden Tallis or Nathan Brown were being coached by Chris Anderson at club level, they would all be in friggin' WHEELCHAIRS by now!!!

Bails, take a leaf out of Obi-Wan Kenobi's book mate!

'Who's the more foolish? The fool, or the fool who follows him?'

 

[Special K]

..so he will get his foot fixed this off season won't he? :?

He limped off in the wales game too didn't he? And his foot is what messed with him at Manly...He should get it fixed :lol:

 

[wittyfan]

:shock: Yikes!

 

[millersnose]

is there no limits to the depths of depravity with wnich this evil anderson and his evil henchman kimmorley are prepared to sink :shock:

 

[blacktip-reefy]

Was there anyone who did not play against wales that was selected for the test match?

 

[Nages]

Mate, have you ever PLAYED football? I know blokes who have played with bad injuries in local comps - and some of them don't even get match payments...

It's a tough game and tough blokes play it. Change that and it just ain't League. If you think this doesn't happen in every team then you're kidding yourself.

 

[Frenzy]

Mate, have you ever PLAYED football? I know blokes who have played with bad injuries in local comps - and some of them don't even get match payments...

It's a tough game and tough blokes play it. Change that and it just ain't League. If you think this doesn't happen in every team then you're kidding yourself.

Agree 100%.

I'm sure some people have no idea what goes on.

blacktip knows but is sometimes selective with what he agrees with aren't ya reefy? :lol:

 

[blacktip-reefy]

Whats this got to do with me?
I just asked who played in the test that didn't play against wales?

 

[cheese]

mick crocker
mick devere

 

[Morpheus]

I feel that those " good" old days are long gone.

Players are investments for our clubs, and are paid accordingly, those who risk those assets are foolish . We have doctors and the doctors word MUST be final.

I look at the bigger picture, what good will our game gain if a player is seriously injured or killed due to refusing to listen to doctors orders, or a coach over rules the doc ?

I admire courage in our players, we all do, but courage and stupidity should not be confused.

Having said that, I talk generally, this Bailey situation does not seem to be all that bad as a sharks fan, I think Anderson has made the right call, in hindsight he recieved good value from Bailey this year and no further damage has been done.

 

[Nages]

I feel that those " good" old days are long gone.

Players are investments for our clubs, and are paid accordingly, those who risk those assets are foolish . We have doctors and the doctors word MUST be final.

I look at the bigger picture, what good will our game gain if a player is seriously injured or killed due to refusing to listen to doctors orders, or a coach over rules the doc ?

I admire courage in our players, we all do, but courage and stupidity should not be confused.

Having said that, I talk generally, this Bailey situation does not seem to be all that bad as a sharks fan, I think Anderson has made the right call, in hindsight he recieved good value from Bailey this year and no further damage has been done.

Agree 100%.

At no stage should permanent injury or a player's life be put at risk, and as Morpheous states, that should be up to doctors to decide with no involvement from coaching staff.

But that's not what we're talking about here.

In this case, and in the cases I referred to earlier, I'm talking about playing with pain and/or putting off treatment until the end of the season. And that's an important part of this game.

 

[Shark]

Well, in the article Bailey is quoted as saying that he would stay off it, have a training run late in the week, the foot would swell up, he'd need to ice it, he'd play in pain then start the whole process over again the following week.

How on EARTH is that not risking further injury? Pain is the way our bodies tell us something is wrong, end of story. To ignore it might make you a hero to some, but try telling that to your family when you can't run around in the back yard with the kids at 40 years of age.

In any case, I don't deny that some injuries can be 'played on' with, but I do really object to Coach Anderson CONTINUALLY insisting that his players - his STAFF - ignore medical advice and risk further injury, threatening to penalise guys who take the medically safe option.

In this day and age of litigation and duty of care, WorkCover would have a field day if someone IS really seriously hurt because of these instructions from the Head Coach.

Anderson did the same with Gibson and Treister last year. They both needed shoulder operations, but Ando insisted that the guy who delayed the op until the end of the season would get first crack at the starting position.

The point here is that Bailey got away with it, and his injury wasn't a really serious one, but it has not healed properly for some 9 or 10 months, so the potential for future complications should be considered. There is also the other matter of Anderson's ruthless, dark ages approach to injury.

 

[millersnose]

Shark

dont take this the wrong way

but this happens in all high level sport

this is not unique to anderson

there are plenty of real crimes to pin on anderson

this is nit picking

 

[Nages]

There is also the other matter of Anderson's ruthless, dark ages approach to injury.

Pain is all about degrees, Shark. Yes, it's our body's way of telling us there's something wrong, but then it's up to us to decide what to do with that information... I mean, if you get a headache you don't go to hospital, do you? You probably wouldn't even stop working.

Different guys have different thresholds of pain, and I can guarantee you that ability in this area is a major factor in how successful players are.

But I think the real issue here is how you seem to believe Ando is creating this problem, and that is just not true. Apart from the fact that he would expect his players to be tough (he is continuing to coach with a heart condition, and therefore setting a pretty high standard), he would be asking no more of them than any other coach in the league.

You obviously don’t like the guy, but don’t make stuff up. That he is demanding guys risk permanent damage to gets spot is just not true. If it is, please pass on the evidence - but a foot that needs icing and rest mid-week is absolutely pedestrian...

 

[Shark]

OK, perhaps another question we should ask is this - How much BETTER would Bails have been in 2003 had he taken a month off to let his foot heal properly, thereby permitting him to play most of the season fully fit, able to train properly and without pain?

As for evidence - Well, as it was reported several times last year, Paul Mellor nearly came to blows with Simon Gilles over the same issue. Mellor had been told to do plenty of pool sessions instead of running, by a back specialist, to get on top of a back injury. Anderson, through Gilles, DEMANDED that he run with the rest of the squad. Mellor refused, and the pair got so heated that they nearly exchanged blows. Mellor was then labelled a poor, lazy trainer, and a player who struggled to cope with the training demands of a modern NRL first grader.

Mellor NEVER refused to train. In fact, he was doing extra sessions to ensure his aerobic fitness would not drop while he was recovering from the back injury. But, thanks largely to Anderson's sledging and poor coaching techniques, Mellor was bundled out of the NRL.

He wasn't the world's best player, at best he was a solid first grader. But just because he wasn't a Noddy or a Beattie or a Stevens, he was a vauable part of our team and held his place in the squad on his merits.

John Lang would never treat a player like that. Nor, dare I say it, would Micheal Hagan, or Matthew Elliott or Tim Sheens, to name a few.

But, Chris Anderson would. Chris Anderson HAS. Bailey's case is not as bad as the Mellor example, but the case reeks of the Anderson approach to Medical Science, and that's what I object to.

 

[cheese]

:-({|= :-({|= :-({|= zZzzzzzzzzZZZZzZZZZzzzzz ZzzZZzzZZZzzzz

 

[Nages]

OK, perhaps another question we should ask is this - How much BETTER would Bails have been in 2003 had he taken a month off to let his foot heal properly, thereby permitting him to play most of the season fully fit, able to train properly and without pain?

As for evidence - Well, as it was reported several times last year, Paul Mellor nearly came to blows with Simon Gilles over the same issue. Mellor had been told to do plenty of pool sessions instead of running, by a back specialist, to get on top of a back injury. Anderson, through Gilles, DEMANDED that he run with the rest of the squad. Mellor refused, and the pair got so heated that they nearly exchanged blows. Mellor was then labelled a poor, lazy trainer, and a player who struggled to cope with the training demands of a modern NRL first grader.

Mellor NEVER refused to train. In fact, he was doing extra sessions to ensure his aerobic fitness would not drop while he was recovering from the back injury. But, thanks largely to Anderson's sledging and poor coaching techniques, Mellor was bundled out of the NRL.

He wasn't the world's best player, at best he was a solid first grader. But just because he wasn't a Noddy or a Beattie or a Stevens, he was a vauable part of our team and held his place in the squad on his merits.

John Lang would never treat a player like that. Nor, dare I say it, would Micheal Hagan, or Matthew Elliott or Tim Sheens, to name a few.

But, Chris Anderson would. Chris Anderson HAS. Bailey's case is not as bad as the Mellor example, but the case reeks of the Anderson approach to Medical Science, and that's what I object to.

Well obviously if those things were true I would agree with you. No player should be put in that kind of position.

I just don't believe they're true.

You say, 'it was reported several times last year...' Where? I certainly never read that anywhere. And you're quoting Anderson through Simon Gillies... It sounds anecdotal to me. Please try and stick to facts, not stuff you hear at the pub.

And as for your list of coaches - they all have players playing with injuries. Every single one of them.

 

[Shark]

Nages, both the Herald and the Telegraph reported on the Mellor/Gilles incident.

As for the details, after reading the paper I asked Mellor himself about the incident after a game last year. And as for the 'lazy trainer' tag, that was published on the Sharks Website, in a press release by Steve Rogers replying to many complaints following the Treister/Graham saga.

Granted, Anderson is more ruthless than most, but this ruthlessness has not produced the results he promised us.

 

[Nages]

Nages, both the Herald and the Telegraph reported on the Mellor/Gilles incident.

As for the details, after reading the paper I asked Mellor himself about the incident after a game last year. And as for the 'lazy trainer' tag, that was published on the Sharks Website, in a press release by Steve Rogers replying to many complaints following the Treister/Graham saga.

Granted, Anderson is more ruthless than most, but this ruthlessness has not produced the results he promised us.

Well I'd love to read any of those articles to see if they say specifically what you claim, or if it's more what you're reading into it. If it's specific, then I'm happy to eat my words.

Also, if his 'ruthlessesless' had delivered what he promised - would that have made it okay?

 

[blacktip-reefy]

Sit down to the table Nages, you got a lot of eating to do.
Everyone knows what happened in the Mellor incedent as we have all discussed it in our previous forums countless times. It happened, we had News articles, comments from Rogers & insiders on here who witnessed the event/events.
As an Anderson apologist, you will find it very difficult. nearly every negative story you have heard about him has turned out be true in his time at the Sharks. There are very few positives to come out of his tenure, which at best, can only be desribed as "ad-hoc" planning.

You wil be much better served to just place incredibly brilliant posts like cheese, who denigrates posters discussions whenever somebody questions another one of Andersons insane methods, with a big snore remark. Brilliant stuff.

& if you think Anderson is capable of succeeding in the NRL again, you are living in a fantasy land.
If you haven't noticed, since the heart problems, the guy has lost the plot. Totally.