Dragons club records

[Bluebags1908]

Hi all,

I'm not a Dragons fan, but I buy David Middleton's yearbook every year and it totally sh!ts me that all the Dragons stats are only from 1999. I reckon the stats from 1921-1998 should be included. It's as if 15 premierships and all the club records such as most games, top tryscorer, 91-6 win vs Canterbury in 1935, etc didn't happen.

When I read the Dragons stats it gives me the feeling that they are fake mickey-mouse stats that don't mean jack sh!t because the real stats go back to 1921.

I know that some Illawarra people would be upset but in fairness there would be no Illawarra Steelers records that would be better than any of the old Saints records. If none of the Steelers stats would be records for the combined team why then are we ignoring a team's glorious history as if it didn't happen?

My solution is - can't we combine the St. George and St. George-Illawarra records and also list the Steelers records separately so that they are preserved forever?


If you look at the Gold Coast Titans records in the same book, the Gold Coast 1988-1998 stats and the Titans stats are both in there together on the same page but the records are listed separately.

So why can't we have the joint team's stats from 1999 continue on from the St. George stats 1921-1998, and maybe have Illawarra Steelers stats listed next to it seperately on the same page?

I know some might bring up the Wests Tigers example, but the big difference with Wests Tigers is that Balmain and Wests still field senior teams in the NSW Cup so both teams still exist separately in their own right. There is no separate St. George and Illawarra teams at the senior levels so this should give them enough excuse to combine the two?

If St. George and the Steelers decide to combine their stats who's decision is it to make it official? Is it up the the individual club(s) or does it have to be approved by the NRL? Or is the decision left to David Middleton? I don't think Middleton should be making the decisions on what record counts and what doesn't. He should just keep the records.

 

[LOYAL DRAGON]

whats stats do the steelers have:lol:

 

[watatank]

I agree that it's ludicrous that these records have not been kept. I think the idea put forward is a great idea. tbh St George-Illawarra is still effectively St George and should be treated as such (at least in the record books). But in saying that, St George has had ties to the Illawarra region in the past and while the Steelers more or less died in 1998 the Illawarra region was and is part of that past so no doubt those records should also be kept to preserve that part of the past as well.

 

[Willow]

My solution is - can't we combine the St. George and St. George-Illawarra records and also list the Steelers records separately so that they are preserved forever?

DRAGONS FIRST GRADE - RECORDS 1921-2008
[SIZE=-1]St George Dragons 1921 - Illawarra Steelers 1982[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Competitions since 1921 - Dragons TOTAL = 88[/SIZE]

http://www.jubileeavenue.com.au/history/records.php

It incorporates a number of St George and Illawarra records. It is based on the official St George Football Club journal from a few years ago.

For example:

Most Tries in a Season
•St George
Tommy Ryan 26 tries, Season 1957
[SIZE=-1]•[/SIZE]Illawarra
Alan McIndoe 19 tries, Season 1991
[SIZE=-1]•[/SIZE]St George Illawarra
Nathan Blacklock 27 tries, Season 2001

Naturally, the records are dominated by St George by virtue of a longer history in the NSWRL first grade.

With premierships, the club's view is that the next one will be number 16, ie St George 15 + St George Illawarra 1 = 16.

This is not the view of the NRL, despite the NRL itself being a merger between the ARL and Super League, and by their own interpretation not existing before 1998. Of course that hasn't stopped the NRL adopting the NSWRL and ARL records since 1908.

I've always maintained that history and heritage is something for the clubs and supporters to decide.

In my opinion the records should be a continuation.

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

It's not just statistics. Last season for the Centenary of RL, Canterbury released a range of hooped jerseys for each club, with the season of foundation on the back. Fellow merged club Wests Tigers had 00 on the rear, whereas we had 21. It doesn't seem to be anything concete on the issue, but if you asked most punters on the street they would say we have been around for over 80 years.

 

[Ray Parlour]

I dont see it as really a merger but more so we took over Illawarra or in another words they asked nicely if they could join with us and we said yes, we will take your juniors.

 

[Willow]

It's not just statistics. Last season for the Centenary of RL, Canterbury released a range of hooped jerseys for each club, with the season of foundation on the back. Fellow merged club Wests Tigers had 00 on the rear, whereas we had 21. It doesn't seem to be anything concete on the issue, but if you asked most punters on the street they would say we have been around for over 80 years.

I don't know Wests Tigers stance on this, I suspect plenty of fans would like to combine the premierships of Balmain and Wests. Quite frankly I see that as a decision for them to make.

The problem is with the NRL. They form a merger of their own, and quite happily inherit all the competition's records as a continuation of their own. They have effectively taken over ownership of the NSWRL records. Also worth noting that the NRL is quite happy to exploit the history of St George whenever they feel it will get a few more bums on seats.

 

[SN0WMAN]

NSWRL NRL used to house it's own statistics until they came across Mr Middleton who basically had no life and devoted his time to memorising statistics. Fatty and Co jumped on his bandwagon and he has basically since been given total control over all NRL statistics. And cause Mr Middleton doesn't seem to think we warrant to count everything before 1999, they alledgedly don't exist. I've emailed a complaint to him before which he basically replied he doesn't believe so - threw it back at him with no further response.

 

[LOYAL DRAGON]

I dont see it as really a merger but more so we took over Illawarra or in another words they asked nicely if they could join with us and we said yes, we will take your juniors.

asked nicley:lol: i like that

 

[Jubileeboy]

The movie 'Rainman' was based on David Middleton !

 

[drake]

Middleton is a News Ltd stooge. f**k him; we know who we are and what we've won.

The NRL is just the current incarnation of professional, commercialised Rugby League. As long as Franchises like Melbourne are referred to as 'clubs', I'll never take them seriously.

If Melbourne is a club, then McDonalds is a restaurant.

 

[Bluebags1908]

DRAGONS FIRST GRADE - RECORDS 1921-2008
[SIZE=-1]St George Dragons 1921 - Illawarra Steelers 1982[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Competitions since 1921 - Dragons TOTAL = 88[/SIZE]

http://www.jubileeavenue.com.au/history/records.php

It incorporates a number of St George and Illawarra records. It is based on the official St George Football Club journal from a few years ago.

For example:

Most Tries in a Season
•St George
Tommy Ryan 26 tries, Season 1957
[SIZE=-1]•[/SIZE]Illawarra
Alan McIndoe 19 tries, Season 1991
[SIZE=-1]•[/SIZE]St George Illawarra
Nathan Blacklock 27 tries, Season 2001

Naturally, the records are dominated by St George by virtue of a longer history in the NSWRL first grade.

With premierships, the club's view is that the next one will be number 16, ie St George 15 + St George Illawarra 1 = 16.

This is not the view of the NRL, despite the NRL itself being a merger between the ARL and Super League, and by their own interpretation not existing before 1998. Of course that hasn't stopped the NRL adopting the NSWRL and ARL records since 1908.

I've always maintained that history and heritage is something for the clubs and supporters to decide.

In my opinion the records should be a continuation.

This website is great... but problem is that it's 'unofficial'.

What is the stance taken by board of directors of St. George Illawarra RLFC? What is Peter Dousts' stance on this issue?

As far as I am concerned, the St. George Dragons only need approval from the Illawarra Steelers to make the combined records 'official'. As long as the Steelers are happy with it then it shouldn't be up to any outsiders to tell the Dragons what is and what isn't their club records. It's the club that should be telling David Middleton what to do, not the other way around.

And you make a very, very good point when you say that the NRL itself is the result of a merger and they have taken their records off the NSWRL.

Also, what is R2K's stance on the issue of club records before 1999? Do you think we could start up a lobby group within R2K to push to get the records reinstated?

And unlike Wests Tigers, which has Balmain and Wests in existence together since 1908, between 1921 and 1981 St. George were the joint-venture's only representative in the top-flight competition so, in theory, if the joint venture is meant to be stronger that when the club was stand-alone and the stand-alone club was still good enough to achieve certain milestones as a single entity then it would be assumed it would have also achieved such records if it were a joint venture.

 

[drake]

Doust's stance?

"Where are the crownies?"

He never rocks the boat.

 

[petetheileet]

Middleton is a News Ltd stooge. f**k him; we know who we are and what we've won.

The NRL is just the current incarnation of professional, commercialised Rugby League. As long as Franchises like Melbourne are referred to as 'clubs', I'll never take them seriously.

If Melbourne is a club, then McDonalds is a restaurant.

Thats my Creed

 

[LOYAL DRAGON]

Middleton is a News Ltd stooge. f**k him; we know who we are and what we've won.

The NRL is just the current incarnation of professional, commercialised Rugby League. As long as Franchises like Melbourne are referred to as 'clubs', I'll never take them seriously.

If Melbourne is a club, then McDonalds is a restaurant.

love my Macas

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

Just wondering if the Steelers would hold a record combined? I know Rod Wishart was an excellent goal kicker (and funny to watch, particularly being run down by Martin Lang in an SOO game), would he beat any St George record, or any other Steeler for that matter?

 

[Wicks]

This website is great... but problem is that it's 'unofficial'.

What is the stance taken by board of directors of St. George Illawarra RLFC?

It's not unofficial

It is based on the official St George Football Club journal from a few years ago.

They combined the statistics years ago and it is updated in the year in review annually

The NRL and Middleton disagree

 

[Wicks]

Just wondering if the Steelers would hold a record combined? I know Rod Wishart was an excellent goal kicker (and funny to watch, particularly being run down by Martin Lang in an SOO game), would he beat any St George record, or any other Steeler for that matter?

They hold the longest losing streak which is 11 in 1988

Wishart has the most points in a season 176 most tries 68 most goals 386 most points 1044 and most points in a match 22 which he did four times

 

[Scott Gourley's Lovechild]

They hold the longest losing streak which is 11 in 1988

Wishart has the most points in a season 176 most tries 68 most goals 386 most points 1044 and most points in a match 22 which he did four times

So that's a St George, Illawarra, and STGI record?

 

[Willow]

This website is great... but problem is that it's 'unofficial'.

What is the stance taken by board of directors of St. George Illawarra RLFC? What is Peter Dousts' stance on this issue?

It was based on the club's football club journal. It is fan driven but originally sourced from the club's published records, and after the joint venture.

The club has maintained that the next premiership will be No.16.