Dragons teams 2008 versus 2020 Hook has a huge job ahead.

[Maddragon99]

As we all remember Wayne Bennett brought immediate success; a minor premiership in 2009 & a Premiership in 2010.

So I’m wondering what expectations we should have for Hook? Do we expect a similar result in such a short period of time?

Results do in a large part depend on the cattle so I was wondering which coach had the better starting point?

In 2008 we finished 7th with 13 wins coming off two previous years where we made credible title runs.

2020 our best place finish is likely 11th with 6 or 7 wins. Last finals appearance 2018 finished 7th.

The 2008 team included, Jason Nightingale, Brett Morris, Matt Cooper, Mark Gasnier (left in ‘09 but returned’10) Jamie Soward, Ben Hornby, Dean Young, Beau Scott, Matt Prior, Jarrod Saffy, Ben Creagh & Dan Hunt.

Of the current 2020 squad the only players I can think of that might make the 2010 Grand Final team are Jack de Belin for Jeremy Smith, Cameron McInnes for Nathan Fien & Paul Vaughan for Michael Weyman.

So obviously Bennett had a far superior squad to work with than what Hook is inheriting so a 2 year plan to win a premiership is completely unrealistic. It’s more like a 5yr plan.

 

[Brutalitops]

I mean a good deal of this squad got within 2 minutes of the prelims less than 2 years ago under Mary's crappy coaching. I don't think it's a bad as you state

 

[Inisai Toga]

As we all remember Wayne Bennett brought immediate success; a minor premiership in 2009 & a Premiership in 2010.

So I’m wondering what expectations we should have for Hook? Do we expect a similar result in such a short period of time?

Results do in a large part depend on the cattle so I was wondering which coach had the better starting point?

In 2008 we finished 7th with 13 wins coming off two previous years where we made credible title runs.

2020 our best place finish is likely 11th with 6 or 7 wins. Last finals appearance 2018 finished 7th.

The 2008 team included, Jason Nightingale, Brett Morris, Matt Cooper, Mark Gasnier (left in ‘09 but returned’10) Jamie Soward, Ben Hornby, Dean Young, Beau Scott, Matt Prior, Jarrod Saffy, Ben Creagh & Dan Hunt.

Of the current 2020 squad the only players I can think of that might make the 2010 Grand Final team are Jack de Belin for Jeremy Smith, Cameron McInnes for Nathan Fien & Paul Vaughan for Michael Weyman.

So obviously Bennett had a far superior squad to work with than what Hook is inheriting so a 2 year plan to win a premiership is completely unrealistic. It’s more like a 5yr plan.

interesting post, couldn’t swap Jeremy Smith for anyone though.

 

[Dragsters]

I mean a good deal of this squad got within 2 minutes of the prelims less than 2 years ago under Mary's crappy coaching. I don't think it's a bad as you state

Excellent point.

3 fricken field goals!

I was at that game and it still stings.

Plus, I'd swap Vaughan for Hunt before Weyman...

 

[Old Timer]

I mean a good deal of this squad got within 2 minutes of the prelims less than 2 years ago under Mary's crappy coaching. I don't think it's a bad as you state

Even some of the so called pundits on the TV now say that our existing roster is indeed over rated and not top 8 quality.

No doubt in my mind that Bennett inherited a lot better roster than Griffin will.

Also no doubt in my mind that we will be on much firmer foundations at the end of Griffin's time than we were at the end of Bennett's.

 

[Maddragon99]

I mean a good deal of this squad got within 2 minutes of the prelims less than 2 years ago under Mary's crappy coaching. I don't think it's a bad as you state

Only 8 players are still around from that squad are Dufty, Lomax, Pereira, Lawrie, B Hunt, T Sims, Vaughan & de Belin

G Widdop, K Mann, N Macdonald, T Lafai, L Ah Mau, J Graham, T Frizell, H Sele, J Latimore, L Leilua all gone

 

[possm]

interesting post, couldn’t swap Jeremy Smith for anyone though.

I'm saying all bets are off. Really excited to see what Griffin can do with his squad for 2021.

 

[Gareth67]

Realistically I believe that - with the correct signings the Dragons could finish in the top 8 , but not beyond . It will take Griffin or any coach for that matter at least 2 seasons to get the team playing the type of no- mistake football that is required to go on to the final 4 .

He , Griffin has a lot of ‘ Mary ‘ footy to erase from the players minds . They must be able to compete for the entire 80 minutes and of course improve their defense to keep the likes of teams such as the Storm or Roosters at bay - a very big ask in the mans first year at the club .

Still if Griffin is able to take the Dragons into the final 8 then I would say that he would had certainly earned himself a pass mark .

One final point that I believe needs to be made . So many fans are counting on the Dragons to sign players to take the place of our outgoings - Frizzell , maybe JDB and others . The availability of like for like replacements are extremely slim , we only need to look at Tamou ( who apparently knocked us back - not that I would want the free-loader wearing the Big Red V ) .

I am starting to wonder whether or not some of the media mud has stuck to Griffin and as a consequence the Dragons chances of being able to lure quality replacements - if indeed they can be found .

The availability of decent talent will make the difference as to whether or not Griffin has a successful first season .

 

[possm]

Realistically I believe that - with the correct signings the Dragons could finish in the top 8 , but not beyond . It will take Griffin or any coach for that matter at least 2 seasons to get the team playing the type of no- mistake football that is required to go on to the final 4 .

He , Griffin has a lot of current Mary footy to erase from the players minds . They must be able to compete for the entire 80 minutes and of course improve their defense to keep the likes of teams such as the Storm or Roosters at bay - a very big ask in the mans first year at the club .

Still if Griffin is able to take the Dragons into the final 8 then I would say that he would had earned a pass mark .

One final point that I believe needs to be made . So many fans are counting on the Dragons to sign players to take the place of our outgoings - Frizzell , maybe JDB and others . The availability of like for like replacements are extremely slim , we only need to look at Tamou ( who apparently knocked us back - not that I would want the free-loader wearing the Big Red V ) .

I am starting to wonder whether or not some of the media mud has stuck to Griffin and as a consequence the Dragons also .

The availability of decent talent will make the difference as to whether or not Griffin has a successful first season .

For the first time in many years I feel very happy with what is happening at the Dragons. I do feel confident that if Griffin is given a free go, he will coach our team to be in the top 4. It will all depend on if we can produce a forward pack that can match it with the best. I am tipping that our backline will more than match it with the best under Griffin's guidance.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

For the first time in many years I feel very happy with what is happening at the Dragons. I do feel confident that if Griffin is given a free go, he will coach our team to be in the top 4. It will all depend on if we can produce a forward pack that can match it with the best. I am tipping that our backline will more than match it with the best under Griffin's guidance.

Im very happy with Hooks appointment because its something that ive wanted for a few years now.......but Tbh I doubt if we are top 4 in the foreseeable future unless we can add at least two top players to our roster...whilst theres potential in some of our backline I cant see in its present format matching it with the best.....I would like to think Im wrong but theres a lot to happen before Im convinced

 

[possm]

Im very happy with Hooks appointment because its something that ive wanted for a few years now.......but Tbh I doubt if we are top 4 in the foreseeable future unless we can add at least two top players to our roster...whilst theres potential in some of our backline I cant see in its present format matching it with the best.....I would like to think Im wrong but theres a lot to happen before Im convinced

Yes, if Griffin produces a squad as well as I believe he will do than we may have a chance of making the top four. Ramsey's performance this round will give us an insight into what we can look forward too, even though Young is in control until the end of this season.

For season 2021 our week positions are:

• Fullback - Dufty is good in attack but poor in defence. Maybe Ramsey will be ready by 2021.
• Left Centre - if we can't off-load Norman, than select him at left centre.
• Five-eighth - I like the idea of Hunt playing as a running five-eighth.
• Backrow - we need a top line backrow forward to replace Frizell. I would rather see Host or Ford coming off the bench.
• Prop - we need to recruit no less than two hard nosed, top grade props with mongrel to help Vaughan and Kerr in our prop rotation. Ellis, Blacker and Lawrie need to be there in reserve grade as good replacements for injured first grade props. We really have no need for K Sims or Merrin for next season.

So the middle is my number one priority, closely followed by fullback. I think we will have the wingers, centres and halves covered without recruitment. The only other area of concern will be Lock, if De Belin is not cleared to play,

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

interesting post, couldn’t swap Jeremy Smith for anyone though.

Me either he just had that bit of mongrel in his game that weve sadly missed in our pack since

 

[I'm Hornby]

I agree that Hook has a lot of work to do where as Bennett came to the club at a great time and added the polish/experience that Brownie didn't have at the time to take us to our 2010 Premiership.

Certainly for us to get back to that level Hook will need at least 3-5 years in this job which is why the constant presumptions in the media that Young will be the next head coach is a bit premature.

If we have some decent years under Hook in 2021 and 2022 we will all need to get behind him to get a good contract extension, it would be only fair seeing as what an extended run Mary got whilst producing next to nothing results wise.

 

[Gareth67]

I agree that Hook has a lot of work to do where as Bennett came to the club at a great time and added the polish/experience that Brownie didn't have at the time to take us to our 2010 Premiership.

Certainly for us to get back to that level Hook will need at least 3-5 years in this job which is why the constant presumptions in the media that Young will be the next head coach is a bit premature.

If we have some decent years under Hook in 2021 and 2022 we will all need to get behind him to get a good contract extension, it would be only fair seeing as what an extended run Mary got whilst producing next to nothing results wise.

Agree I’m Hornby - no point swapping a shiny button for a dull one .

 

[redandwhite4evr]

As we all remember Wayne Bennett brought immediate success; a minor premiership in 2009 & a Premiership in 2010.

So I’m wondering what expectations we should have for Hook? Do we expect a similar result in such a short period of time?

Results do in a large part depend on the cattle so I was wondering which coach had the better starting point?

In 2008 we finished 7th with 13 wins coming off two previous years where we made credible title runs.

2020 our best place finish is likely 11th with 6 or 7 wins. Last finals appearance 2018 finished 7th.

The 2008 team included, Jason Nightingale, Brett Morris, Matt Cooper, Mark Gasnier (left in ‘09 but returned’10) Jamie Soward, Ben Hornby, Dean Young, Beau Scott, Matt Prior, Jarrod Saffy, Ben Creagh & Dan Hunt.

Of the current 2020 squad the only players I can think of that might make the 2010 Grand Final team are Jack de Belin for Jeremy Smith, Cameron McInnes for Nathan Fien & Paul Vaughan for Michael Weyman.

So obviously Bennett had a far superior squad to work with than what Hook is inheriting so a 2 year plan to win a premiership is completely unrealistic. It’s more like a 5yr plan.

Like most of us, I'm happy about Hook's appointment. However, there is going to be some lead in his saddle. Firstly, he has to find a full-back who can run fast and far, catch, tackle, pass bilaterally, communicate with the attacking and defensive lines, anticipate and position himself in defence. Good luck with that one! Good players have left and/or opted not to join us and Frizzell, in particular, will be impossible to replace. I hope he can still make some good signings but time is marching on and the available talent is shrinking. Also, I don't share his glowing endorsement of Dean Young as an assistant coach. Our defensive woes have been around as long as Young has and that's no coincidence. Hook will have to personally take over all the defensive coaching responsibilities to make significant improvements and that may well mean that other important areas of his responsibility-eg the development and transition of the Feagais, Sullivans, Schillers and Ramseys into NRL players doesn't get the time it deserves.

If he can move us up the ladder after his first year with these obstacles, he should be appointed coach for life!

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

Like most of us, I'm happy about Hook's appointment. However, there is going to be some lead in his saddle. Firstly, he has to find a full-back who can run fast and far, catch, tackle, pass bilaterally, communicate with the attacking and defensive lines, anticipate and position himself in defence. Good luck with that one! Good players have left and/or opted not to join us and Frizzell, in particular, will be impossible to replace. I hope he can still make some good signings but time is marching on and the available talent is shrinking. Also, I don't share his glowing endorsement of Dean Young as an assistant coach. Our defensive woes have been around as long as Young has and that's no coincidence. Hook will have to personally take over all the defensive coaching responsibilities to make significant improvements and that may well mean that other important areas of his responsibility-eg the development and transition of the Feagais, Sullivans, Schillers and Ramseys into NRL players doesn't get the time it deserves.

If he can move us up the ladder after his first year with these obstacles, he should be appointed coach for life!

I wouldnt read to much into his endorsement of Young.....I think tbh hes being polite for now because Young is currently in the caretaker role.....theres one thing Ive noticed about Griffin hes his own man....if he thinks and so he should that changes need to be made beit support staff or players then hes not frightened to carry them out....and imo he wont be bullied, persuaded or controlled by others unless it's for a valid reason

 

[FlameThrower]

All good posts here, and I echo the many comments about feeling optimistic for 2021. Yes we have some major challenges with squad makeup, recruitment and selecting the best of the juniors. The team needs to be rebuilt and wipe away the ‘Dragons Footy’ rubbish we’ve been seeing. Defence, attack and discipline are the 101 stuff we need to get sorted in the off season. Need to settle on a spine 1-6-7-9 and stick to it and not the constant changes we’ve seen in the last few years.
I’ll be seriously looking at renewing my membership at the Leagues Club and as a Red V member. Anyone who can should get behind the team and Club - we need cut the cord to the past and look forward to the future and rebuilding of this great Club.

Go the Dragons....

 

[LINESPEED]

Realistically I believe that - with the correct signings the Dragons could finish in the top 8 , but not beyond . It will take Griffin or any coach for that matter at least 2 seasons to get the team playing the type of no- mistake football that is required to go on to the final 4 .

He , Griffin has a lot of ‘ Mary ‘ footy to erase from the players minds . They must be able to compete for the entire 80 minutes and of course improve their defense to keep the likes of teams such as the Storm or Roosters at bay - a very big ask in the mans first year at the club .

Still if Griffin is able to take the Dragons into the final 8 then I would say that he would had certainly earned himself a pass mark .

One final point that I believe needs to be made . So many fans are counting on the Dragons to sign players to take the place of our outgoings - Frizzell , maybe JDB and others . The availability of like for like replacements are extremely slim , we only need to look at Tamou ( who apparently knocked us back - not that I would want the free-loader wearing the Big Red V ) .

I am starting to wonder whether or not some of the media mud has stuck to Griffin and as a consequence the Dragons chances of being able to lure quality replacements - if indeed they can be found .

The availability of decent talent will make the difference as to whether or not Griffin has a successful first season .

Griff certainly starts behind the 8ball - especially with JDB, Friz & unblooded juniors

.... & I don’t think the presence of Deano would be either a drawcard or offer stability & renewal, especially for juniors

(unless Cody is a WTF epiphanic moment)

...and his continued presence after 6 lamentable years with onfield training etc with the
current players would not offer psychological renewal & a clean break for them from the old ways?

And if the rebuilding falters will Albert begin the whiteanting

.... whereby in 2 years time we get rookie Deano and another half decade of “run harder” (not BE clever)
Dragons footy?

A young future (or current) marquee player out there might well see coaching instability & career vacuum written all over this possibility?

I certainly hope it’s not the case
- and that Griff is seen as a longer term prospect
.
.. but Albert has meddled to our great detriment before
...and his political influence at the Club has risen somewhat I suspect

The bright future hopefully begins with No 5 Satdy arvo at WIN!

(Sorry about the pressure kid)

 

[Mjab]

Griff certainly starts behind the 8ball - especially with JDB, Friz & unblooded juniors

.... & I don’t think the presence of Deano would be either a drawcard or offer stability & renewal, especially for juniors

(unless Cody is a WTF epiphanic moment)

...and his continued presence after 6 lamentable years with onfield training etc with the
current players would not offer psychological renewal & a clean break for them from the old ways?

And if the rebuilding falters will Albert begin the whiteanting

.... whereby in 2 years time we get rookie Deano and another half decade of “run harder” (not BE clever)
Dragons footy?

A young future (or current) marquee player out there might well see coaching instability & career vacuum written all over this possibility?

I certainly hope it’s not the case
- and that Griff is seen as a longer term prospect
.
.. but Albert has meddled to our great detriment before
...and his political influence at the Club has risen somewhat I suspect

The bright future hopefully begins with No 5 Satdy arvo at WIN!

(Sorry about the pressure kid)

Fully agree

 

[Gareth67]

Griff certainly starts behind the 8ball - especially with JDB, Friz & unblooded juniors

.... & I don’t think the presence of Deano would be either a drawcard or offer stability & renewal, especially for juniors

(unless Cody is a WTF epiphanic moment)

...and his continued presence after 6 lamentable years with onfield training etc with the
current players would not offer psychological renewal & a clean break for them from the old ways?

And if the rebuilding falters will Albert begin the whiteanting

.... whereby in 2 years time we get rookie Deano and another half decade of “run harder” (not BE clever)
Dragons footy?

A young future (or current) marquee player out there might well see coaching instability & career vacuum written all over this possibility?

I certainly hope it’s not the case
- and that Griff is seen as a longer term prospect
.
.. but Albert has meddled to our great detriment before
...and his political influence at the Club has risen somewhat I suspect

The bright future hopefully begins with No 5 Satdy arvo at WIN!

(Sorry about the pressure kid)

Excellent post LINESPEED - you have highlighted the deficiencies that have been in the Dragons Pathway system into the NRL grade itself . As you have said if Dean is still there then not much will change within the lower grades .

I do hope that Griffin is given the clout required to overcome that problem , but whilst C.Young is holding the keys to the Dragons ‘ safe ‘ then there may be some instability within the ranks .