Dutch aim for Super League in Ten Years

[Evil Homer]

Oh - if ten years is a magic number for Rotterdam, who is to say in ten years time a strong competition couldn't be formed in North America. Again, as sheepbender says about the above group, given time, money, marketing and knowledgeable people, why couldn't a North American comp eclipse them all.

No doubt it could, the only thing stopping it at the moment is a lack of money, marketing and knowledgeable people.

I fully understand where you are coming from, but the fact is that RL is not a rich sport, we can't afford to throw money at expansion franchises until they succeed. The funds that we do have are much better spent on projects leading to sustainable growth. I know you are relatively knew to the game, but we've seen this kind of thing in RL plenty of times before. When Super League started people had ideas for expansion similar to the ones you have posted on this thread, most of the existing English teams were going to be merged and it was going to be a European competition with teams based in major cities. For the first Super League season, the league included a Paris franchise under the guidance of the successful PSG soccer club, in fact the first ever Super League match was played in Paris in front of almost 18,000 people. The club lasted two seasons before going bankrupt. The RFL persisted with this expansion strategy for a few years and almost went bankrupt themselves before new management was forced to adopt a slightly different philosophy, which is what you see today. The fact is that, unless you have investors willing to persist and lose a lot of money over a long period of time, the idea of top-down expansion isn't going to work. It's not as simple as 'adopting marketing strategies', you need money, and at the moment that's not something the sport has got. If Rotterdam have the finances in place and a business model that will make them a sustainable Super League club in the future, then good luck to them. At the moment, they have a long, long way to go.

 

[langpark]

...shamelessly stolen from rlfans...

 

[bowes]

Thanks. I thought so yeah finally the quality juniors are coming through more teams would stop the growth. If enough teams want in then a 2nd SL should be set up for non English teams.

Already we have Toulose, Barcelona, Rotterdam, 2 Italian teams, wales apparently will be back. There's already 6 teams potentially find 4 more there's a comp. 1 of those could be Catalans. 3 to go

So you 2 dont support Rugby League becoming a global sport, would you rather keep it too yourselves then?


This Dutch/Rotterdam Spartans thing is great for the sport, it shows that there are people wanting to throw money behind the sport, because they believe in it. Sure 10 years is ambitious to get into Super League, and who knows, perhaps in that time, there will be a European based Super League seperate to the English one. Cos its not just the Dutch that are coming up, Norway and Sweden have domestic comps now. So as some are saying given the time, the money, the marketing and some decent knowledgable people behind the scenes, the sport could be a great success in Europe.

Excuse my geography, but getting around Europe is no worse than the Warriors flying to Perth for a game, so its feasible that teams from the whole continent could be involved, representing a country. Teams from France, Spain, Germany, Holland, Sweden, Norway, Serbia, Malta, Italy, Russia, and whoever else has a keen interest in Rugby League.

Sure the NRL will always be the dominant league, but to not support the global expansion of a sport we love is ridiculous.

If someone was just creating a social side in Bangkok to play touring sides and said they'd be in the NRL in 10 years would you take it seriously?

Real expansion attempts end up tarred with the same brush as thus kind of nonsense. I support all efforts to turn the Netherlands into another Serbia but you have to have realism.

 

[billy2]

10 years is a long time in RL.
If you look at how the international scene has changed in the last 10 it's easy to see that anything could happen in another 10.
In 10 years you will be able to watch all professional games in high definition on the internet on a pay per view basis from anywhere in the world and international travel will be much cheaper - all factors that will make expansion easier and more attractive.
In 10 years there could be a New York side in the ESL, or a South African side, no reason why not.

 

[langpark]

10 years is a long time in RL.
If you look at how the international scene has changed in the last 10 it's easy to see that anything could happen in another 10.
In 10 years you will be able to watch all professional games in high definition on the internet on a pay per view basis from anywhere in the world and international travel will be much cheaper - all factors that will make expansion easier and more attractive.
In 10 years there could be a New York side in the ESL, or a South African side, no reason why not.

I'll tell you why not.

10 years, as you say is a long time. 10 years, is exactly how long Serbian RL has existed for. Most of us consider Serbian RL to have been a roaring success so far. That said, they have something like 250 registered players. They've achieved that in 10 years, which I think is great. But to support a SL team, you'd need a base of something like 5000 registered players. This sort of growth will need much more than 10 years...

 

[bowes]

In 10 years time I'd hope to see some British expansion clubs becoming the size of Sheffield Eagles and at least 1 semi pro club in every region of England and certainly at least another French club in SL.

 

[Poul]

.....

Quick side note, why do teams all over the world use the nickname 'Spartans"? Sparta is a PLACE, not a nickname, like Warriors, for example. It's like being called the Rotterdam Queenslanders... Anyway, just saying...

Whilst as a proper noun the term "Spartan" describes an inhabitant of Sparta, in more general terms "spartan" decribes an individual (or team) who possess the qualities attributed to the warrior castes of the ancient Greek city state, namely being rigorously self disciplined or self restrained, and being resolutely courageous in the face of extreme danger, adversity or pain.

These "spartan" qualities became legendary following the battle of Thermopylae in @480 BC, in which (supposedly) 300 Spartan warriors made a rearguard fight to the death against an invading force of (purportedly) over 100,000 Persians.

So, really not a bad nickname for a footy team ;-)

 

[sheepbender]

If someone was just creating a social side in Bangkok to play touring sides and said they'd be in the NRL in 10 years would you take it seriously?

Real expansion attempts end up tarred with the same brush as thus kind of nonsense. I support all efforts to turn the Netherlands into another Serbia but you have to have realism.

Everyones bangin on about this 10 years, I think we all know itll take longer, but countries have to start somewhere, I know nothing of how well Serbias goin, but I know of Sweden and Norways efforts, and yea its similar, their domestic comps have only 4 teams in them and small pool of players to source from, who are mostly from union.. But theyve got people from League backgrounds runnin things, so hopefully in 'x' amount of years they can get together with other developing nations and have a European Super League.

Also Ive noticed a couple of people saying Wales should join this potential Euro league, why? Theyd benefit from being in the English leagues. Sure the Crusaders RL were bottom of the ESL, but theyre still far better than their european counterparts, sure they wouldnt dominate the english scene, but theyd dominate the European league.. Ireland and Scotland on the other hand...

 

[franklin2323]

If someone was just creating a social side in Bangkok to play touring sides and said they'd be in the NRL in 10 years would you take it seriously?

I don't think it will happen in 10 years double that if they are lucky. However if the ESL is full either someone needs to be culled or a comp needs to be set up.

Set a criteria such as junior numbers, finance etc. If enough teams pass then they should get in. Simple. Toulose is very close to having the capacity to support a SL team.

 

[bowes]

Everyones bangin on about this 10 years, I think we all know itll take longer, but countries have to start somewhere, I know nothing of how well Serbias goin, but I know of Sweden and Norways efforts, and yea its similar, their domestic comps have only 4 teams in them and small pool of players to source from, who are mostly from union.. But theyve got people from League backgrounds runnin things, so hopefully in 'x' amount of years they can get together with other developing nations and have a European Super League.

Also Ive noticed a couple of people saying Wales should join this potential Euro league, why? Theyd benefit from being in the English leagues. Sure the Crusaders RL were bottom of the ESL, but theyre still far better than their european counterparts, sure they wouldnt dominate the english scene, but theyd dominate the European league.. Ireland and Scotland on the other hand...

The leap is just far too huge especially with travelling. I guess the nearest we may get is Spanish and Italian sides in the French League but even that is far away with Italy stuck in infighting and the Catalonian League having folded. A more likely prospect is a Champions League type competition I guess though presumably just among emerging nations.

With time I think it's inevitable we'll get a 2nd French team in SL and plausible we'll get a 3rd. Likewise I expect Welsh teams to at least go back up to the Championship and wouldn't be surprised if there's a Scottish side in Championship 1.

 

[langpark]

Whilst as a proper noun the term "Spartan" describes an inhabitant of Sparta, in more general terms "spartan" decribes an individual (or team) who possess the qualities attributed to the warrior castes of the ancient Greek city state, namely being rigorously self disciplined or self restrained, and being resolutely courageous in the face of extreme danger, adversity or pain.

These "spartan" qualities became legendary following the battle of Thermopylae in @480 BC, in which (supposedly) 300 Spartan warriors made a rearguard fight to the death against an invading force of (purportedly) over 100,000 Persians.

So, really not a bad nickname for a footy team ;-)

Impressive knowledge, but the second paragraph wasn't necessary, it's only my favourite piece of history Though I would argue it was closer to 300,000 Persians...

Believe it or not, but I'm actually going to Thermopylae for the first time tomorrow (I live in athens)...

 

[deluded pom?]

Believe it or not, but I'm actually going to Thermopylae for the first time tomorrow (I live in athens)...

Isn't it about time you got a Greek league up and running then? ;-)

 

[langpark]

Isn't it about time you got a Greek league up and running then? ;-)

funny you should mention it, I'm working on it as we speak. Haven't made much progress though. Those that were involved with the previous administration seem to have vanished. I've contacted over 20 people from the past and the guy who was allegedly starting the game over on Rodos. All attempts have fallen on deaf ears. Anyway, long story, I guess now is not the time to go into it...

 

[roughyedspud]

Impressive knowledge, but the second paragraph wasn't necessary, it's only my favourite piece of history Though I would argue it was closer to 300,000 Persians...

Believe it or not, but I'm actually going to Thermopylae for the first time tomorrow (I live in athens)...

we've all seen 300 mate...its not that impressive knowledge lol

 

[langpark]

we've all seen 300 mate...its not that impressive knowledge lol

:lol:

I actually made a point of NOT watching it and still haven't.

If you ever get a chance though, watch the documentary about it done by the history channel. It's called 'Last stand of the 300 Spartans'. Sensational production...

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Wellsy - he said "bring over even more crap". To me that means the players from down under were crap and more would be brought over. I thought that was obvious.

No, it means that there is already a lot of crap from Down Under filling the gaps left by the lack of quality players available in this country, and more clubs means more gaps which means more crap from Down Under.

It doesn't mean that everyone from Down Under is crap. It means the only ones that will come over are crap because that's all we can afford with our cap.

Also Wellsy - league may be run by monkeys in England, but that doesn't mean that there will be monkeys running things on the continent. It will take money and some serious efforts in regards to marketing. I'm not that stupid to think that the game will sell itself. There is a lot of competition for the sports fans discretionary income. But, if a rugby league comp puts as much money into marketing as other sports groups they will win out.

You just said that once people know it exists they will flock to see it. If that's not saying the game will sell itself then you must have a different meaning for that sentence to the rest of the English speaking world.

Where is this money supposed to come from to run all these clubs? There is no TV deal anywhere but the UK (who I would shadow a guess as not ploughing a lot into a European League separate from the English League), so it would require a lot of money from (mainly) France to run. Then you'd need rich backers for each of those clubs. Since 4 of the 6 clubs you've mentioned don't exist (and you've struggled to even name 10 places anyway), how do you expect that to happen?

Here is a list of SL clubs that have sprouted from next to nowhere:
Paris St German - Lasted 2 years.
Gateshead Thunder - Lasted 1 year (now struggle at the bottom of the 3rd tier every season).
Celtic Crusaders - Lasted 1 year in Bridgend, before being relocated.
Crusaders RL - Lasted 2 years in Wrexham, going into administration after year 1 and pulling out in year 2.

So not only do you need to find all these backers for brand new clubs from random Leagueless places (of which we've only managed 4 in the last nearly 2 decades), but you also need to find a way to keep them in the game for a "record" 3+ years.

So where are the backers coming from? Where's the TV deal coming from? Where are the sponsors coming from? And we've not even mentioned where the players are coming from yet other than lower leagues in NSW and QLD.

THIS is why it's pie in the sky nonsense. The only real expansion I can see in terms of SL in the next 10 years is in France as they have ESTABLISHED RL clubs that have a chance of attracting investment that would stick around for longer than 2 years as well as a hotbed of RL talent. But any real expansion in France would only come from a TV deal from there which doesn't seem to be on the table yet.

 

[In-goal]

Good post wess, I'm just about done with reading pie in the sky rubbish. The RLIF is still an obsequies body at best, until they can get their act together, the international funding required will remain non existent.

The world cup, bless it's socks, really needs to be a bumper tournament, with great crowds and revenue, failure to achieve this means 4 more years of penny pinching.

 

[billy2]

Other sports would consider this a very modest and achievable aim.

Our sport was static or even contracting for 50 years till roughly 10 years ago, while other sports have been powering ahead.

We have seen good growth since the turn of the century and it is picking up in pace.

People still think small and love their doom and gloom and seige mentalities. It's the RL way. But literally anything is possible in the next 10 years, presuming we actually have a go and don't just collectively cry in our beer about how it's useless to try because not everything will work.

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Other sports would consider this a very modest and achievable aim.

Our sport was static or even contracting for 50 years till roughly 10 years ago, while other sports have been powering ahead.

We have seen good growth since the turn of the century and it is picking up in pace.

People still think small and love their doom and gloom and seige mentalities. It's the RL way. But literally anything is possible in the next 10 years, presuming we actually have a go and don't just collectively cry in our beer about how it's useless to try because not everything will work.

I think anyone expecting a new club in effectively a league free area to be in SL for more than a couple of years can only expect doom and gloom and we have no other examples to show us otherwise.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Will never happen. Not because it wouldn't be possible if the will was there from Ingerlund. But the flatcaps that make up the majority there deathrode a Welsh team at every turn so you can imagine what a Dutch team would be up against. A second French team will be lucky to get a start there in 10 years at this rate and it has a proven successful precedent behind it in Catalans.