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Eels vs Titans Game Day Thread

EelsFan05

Bench
Messages
2,961
No I said most teams. And even with their other superstars the Storm still lost a grand final 40-0 with Smith unavailable.

Why in the same paragraph say, 'most teams only have one superstar', and the Storm and Cowboys don't win without Smith and Thurston etc etc, if that wasn't the inference to be drawn you deluded fool.
 

yy_cheng

Coach
Messages
18,734
Norman's absence was not the reason we lost, that's not to say if he played we still don't win but we should have won that game even without Norman. I think if we halved our error rate we would have won
We should've won I agree but if Norman was there, we might've bagged a few more tries and that changes things
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,406
Why in the same paragraph say, 'most teams only have one superstar', and the Storm and Cowboys don't win without Smith and Thurston etc etc, if that wasn't the inference to be drawn you deluded fool.
Because even without one of their stars they still don't win. How much more so for teams that lose their only star?
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,406
Way too much emphasis on stats to tell if players have a good game. Just watch the game.
I did watch the game, and I saw the Titans forwards defend well but do little in attack. The stats back that up, as they always do.

That's why coaches care about stats rather than just relying on the few standout moments they remember. They are only human after all, and a lot of the relevant detail isn't memorable. Hence their use of statistics.
 

EelsFan05

Bench
Messages
2,961
Because even without one of their stars they still don't win. How much more so for teams that lose their only star?

Would you like to compare the Storm and Cowboys win/loss record to ours over the last 5, or even 10 years? I hardly think one grand final loss is a big enough sample size to establish whether the Storm rely on one superstar.

My point remains that we used to rely heavily on a Hayne for far to long. It resulted in us not winning a thing. I'm hoping that we don't become that same team with Norman.

The Storm and Cowboys have been perennial finalists because the have two or three superstars surrounded by committed well coached supporting players. At one time Melbourne had four but thats another story.

Over to you to skew the conversation in another direction.
 
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Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,406
Would you like to compare the Storm and Cowboys win/loss record to ours over the last 5, or even 10 years?
With their stars out or what? One of the reasons those guys are champions is because they rarely miss games. But when they do their teams struggle like Portuguese chicken. Thurston carried injury all through 2010 and the Cowboys only won five games. They were without Scott and Taumalolo today and they got smashed by f**ken Manly.
I hardly think one grand final loss is a big enough sample size to establish whether the Storm rely on one superstar.
Well that's the only sample we've got mate. It doesn't prove your point either, that they can win without their stars. And I didn't say they rely on one, they obviously rely on however many they've got.
My point remains that we used to rely heavily on a Hayne for far to long. It resulted in us not winning a thing. I'm hoping that we don't become that same team with Norman.
How often do you expect us to win without a player of his calibre?
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,423
Would you like to compare the Storm and Cowboys win/loss record to ours over the last 5, or even 10 years? I hardly think one grand final loss is a big enough sample size to establish whether the Storm rely on one superstar.

My point remains that we used to rely heavily on a Hayne for far to long. It resulted in us not winning a thing. I'm hoping that we don't become that same team with Norman.

The Storm and Cowboys have been perennial finalists because the have two or three superstars surrounded by committed well coached supporting players. At one time Melbourne had four but thats another story.

Over to you to skew the conversation in another direction.

Despite what I posted earlier, you do make a valid point. We have seen (and it has been noted by some commentators) that Corey Norman plays his best when he is called upon to run the whole show himself. He played much better after Foran dropped out for instance. He's our go-to guy for all the kicking, organising, talking on the field, etc. He sets up the left hand side perfectly, and is a big reason that Radradra is so influential. And he now breaks tackles and seems to have a bit more speed. I'm hoping that with more experience, Gutherson, French and Pritchard might learn how to do those things. I guess it will then be up to the coach to get Corey to play at his best, with a more focussed role in the team - and let the others do their thing. I'm not suggesting that Norman cramps the style of other players, it's just that he revels in taking responsibility for the whole thing himself. Over to you, Brad.
 

Soren Lorenson

First Grade
Messages
7,583
Its a valid concern, but I think one major difference between Hayne and Norman is that while Hayne might have improved our results off his own back, Corey seems to improve other players too, plus I think we all agree we got him at a good price hence his value is high.I think it's a good thing if he takes responsibility, that's what we pay him to do. And my point is..... without him our experience levels in spine positions goes down immensely, something that with proper coaching support and time, should improve. I'm not sure we had that in the Hayne era.
 
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lingard

Coach
Messages
11,423
Its a valid concern, but I think one major difference between Hayne and Norman is that while Hayne might have improved our results off his own back, Corey seems to improve other players too, plus I think we all agree we got him at a good price hence his value is high.I think it's a good thing if he takes responsibility, that's what we pay him to do. And my point is..... without him our experience levels in spine positions goes down immensely, something that with proper coaching support and time, should improve. I'm not sure we had that in the Hayne era.

In the Hayne era we had a little more experience in the spine but not quality. We had Matt Keating, Kris Keating, Jeff Robson, Mortimer, Finch, etc, all decent players but not stand-outs in any way. I guess we're expecting Gutherson and French to end up better than any of those. And it's good that Norman does what he does, it's just that if he's not the main go-to guy, he has tended to go into his shell a bit in the past. Maybe those days are over, though. Hope so.
 

hindy111

Post Whore
Messages
62,899
We should've won I agree but if Norman was there, we might've bagged a few more tries and that changes things

Semi still makes 3 errors, and we still drop balls,
Thou when Robson dropped ball it swung momentum. At that point we may of wemt on to 18-0.
But see good teams are able to wrestle the momentum back when lose it and keep points to a minimum. We didnt.

Why im not worried. How many ball did titans drop in own half? How many did we?
Along with Semi forward ball,Gutherson kicking out on full plus they had lucky tries.
Only worry from game was Takas defense. Rest fixes self.

Terepo,Vavae,KE,Brown would be a much more effective bench. All bend the defense and decnet in defense bar perhaps Vavae. Thou everyone said Matabi cant tackle as well.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,406
Its a valid concern, but I think one major difference between Hayne and Norman is that while Hayne might have improved our results off his own back, Corey seems to improve other players too, plus I think we all agree we got him at a good price hence his value is high.
This might be the key point as well. The main reason teams struggle with a star out is because they're taking up a lot of the salary cap. The key to winning seems to be having as little of your cap off the field as possible (while still allowing for a couple of backups good enough to play the inevitable dozen games required).
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,406
In the Hayne era we had a little more experience in the spine but not quality. We had Matt Keating, Kris Keating, Jeff Robson, Mortimer, Finch, etc, all decent players but not stand-outs in any way. I guess we're expecting Gutherson and French to end up better than any of those. And it's good that Norman does what he does, it's just that if he's not the main go-to guy, he has tended to go into his shell a bit in the past. Maybe those days are over, though. Hope so.
We had shitty forwards in those days.
 

Poupou Escobar

Post Whore
Messages
91,406
Semi still makes 3 errors, and we still drop balls,
Thou when Robson dropped ball it swung momentum. At that point we may of wemt on to 18-0.
But see good teams are able to wrestle the momentum back when lose it and keep points to a minimum. We didnt.

Why im not worried. How many ball did titans drop in own half? How many did we?
Along with Semi forward ball,Gutherson kicking out on full plus they had lucky tries.
Only worry from game was Takas defense. Rest fixes self.

Terepo,Vavae,KE,Brown would be a much more effective bench. All bend the defense and decnet in defense bar perhaps Vavae. Thou everyone said Matabi cant tackle as well.
Nobody said Matagi can't tackle, the concern was his workrate. Likewise Takairangi tackles just fine. It's his lateral movement that is the issue.
 

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