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Eliminate risk and it will be game over

magpie4ever

First Grade
Messages
9,992
The big hit that Kevin Tamati (I think) laid on Rohan Hancock in the early 80's Test match is still one of the biggest and most significant shoulder charges I can recall. Of course they weren't called shoulder charges back then just like there was no such thing as a 'hit up', not to mention a host of other modern day terms we use to describe facets of play now. The game, as you know, was a lot more rough and tumble back then also - softening up periods quite common so a big hit (or whatever it was called back then) probably didn't look as eye-catching as it does today. But believe you me, they were around - we just took them for granted.

Mate, I can't remember the tackle mentioned and I never said shoulder charges did not exist; I stated they were rare.

Yes, there were massive hits but they mainly involved shoulders and arms.
 

I Bleed Maroon

Referee
Messages
26,234
Soccer Mums are an unstoppable force, it would appear. If they disapprove of the game, and we stand by our convictions and tell them to f**k off with junior to another softer sport, the code suffers for it.

This is part of a much bigger picture, in my mind. It's not just Rugby League that's being softened up, it's society in general. With garbage media like A Current Affair, Today Tonight and others of their ilk peddling nothing but fear and cynical scandal, it's no surprise that the already over protective soccer mums are tightening the belt even further. The world is apparently the most dangerous and dark it's ever been with violence on our streets at pandemic levels.

What a load of bullshit. You cannot make sacrifices in this world to accommodate dickheads. If these people the NRL administrators are trying so hard to appeal to really think that the brutality and spectacle of our sport is to blame for the bloody nose that "little Johnny" comes home with after school than they're betting on the wrong horse. Those people are too far gone to appeal to at all. They're already in the process of buying little Johnny his Soccer boots and WSW jersey.

It's easy for me to say let them go, and I will stand by that position, because I believe we can survive without them, as the sky high popularity of the infamously brutal and violent State of Origin attests to, but the game is unfortunately being forced into a politically correct corner by the pretentious, moral high horse brigade and their commander in chief, Tracy Grimshaw.

We need to stop the rot at its source, but good luck with that is what I would say.
 

Bengal

Juniors
Messages
877
Mate, I can't remember the tackle mentioned and I never said shoulder charges did not exist; I stated they were rare.

Yes, there were massive hits but they mainly involved shoulders and arms.
Yeah, only Kiwis that were around at the time will remember the tackle because it effectively won us the game even though it was very, very early into the match. Shoulder charges today are rare today also; they garner heaps of press (and kudos or criticism) relative to their frequency but I don?t think things have changed as much over the decades and some may think in regards to big impacts.
 

Gmac

Juniors
Messages
762
What about the dad's..? Mum didn't want me to play rugby league and he told her to be quiet and that if I wanted you play then that's what I would we doing. ( he's a soccer nut) whether it was soccer league or ballet if I wanted to play and could handle it he was all for it...
I guess what I'm saying is Some of the dads out there should man up.
 

Bengal

Juniors
Messages
877
Soccer Mums are an unstoppable force, it would appear. If they disapprove of the game, and we stand by our convictions and tell them to f**k off with junior to another softer sport, the code suffers for it.
If there's a mum then there should be a dad. Dads need to come to the parenting party and both involve themselves more and assert a greater influence over family life in general. One of the chief reasons they don't do this (have more of a say) is that they're afraid that if they upset mummy then the chances for nooky that night diminish. Sad but true according to one parenting expert I take note of.

On the other hand, changing workplace dynamics mean that one day, not to soon, there may be an army of soccer dads to match the soccer mums. Hmmm.

This is part of a much bigger picture, in my mind. It's not just Rugby League that's being softened up, it's society in general.
Indeed, but that's been a general trend for a century (or two) now. But there's nothing inherently wrong with that if the reasoning behind the change is sound as it had been for a good deal of that time until recently. Industrialization has softened us all to a great extent and that's fine, but the reasoning for change in recent times - not so good.
 

adamkungl

Immortal
Messages
42,971
Excellent article.

Those in charge need to ask themselves who exactly they are trying to appeal to, and how much they are willing to lose in order to achieve that (or if it is even possible).
 

POPEYE

Coach
Messages
11,397
Jabba is either trying to make a quid, shitstirring or attention seeking. Old people just want to be heard and taken seriously as they fade away, why else would we bother writing about something most people can see for themselves. There are far worse threats to the game's credibility that softening it up won't fix.
 

Spot On

Coach
Messages
13,903
Jabba is either trying to make a quid, shitstirring or attention seeking. Old people just want to be heard and taken seriously as they fade away, why else would we bother writing about something most people can see for themselves. There are far worse threats to the game's credibility that softening it up won't fix.

:lol:
 

Manu Vatuvei

Coach
Messages
17,239
"Please don't compare junior league football with the win-at-all-costs professional sport you see on our TV screens. If you don't like some of the stuff you see, tell your kids why it's not right for them to do the same."

I would love to know how you explain that to kids?

I wouldn't try because I know there's no logical explanation.

"They fight because their games are very important and they're grown ups and grown ups win by having fist fights"?

"You shouldn't fight because your little kiddy game doesn't mean jack shit so you shouldn't be trying as hard as they are"?
 

BuffaloRules

Coach
Messages
15,772
What about the dad's..? Mum didn't want me to play rugby league and he told her to be quiet and that if I wanted you play then that's what I would we doing. ( he's a soccer nut) whether it was soccer league or ballet if I wanted to play and could handle it he was all for it...
I guess what I'm saying is Some of the dads out there should man up.

Good point.

And what about the kids themselves?

When I was 13, I was going to play the sport I wanted to, regardless of what mum (or dad) wished.

Lets be honest though, Rugby League is not for every kid, never has been.

You need to be a certain type, and perhaps those brought up by over protective mums would never be able to cope with playing the game anyway.
 

Bengal

Juniors
Messages
877
"Please don't compare junior league football with the win-at-all-costs professional sport you see on our TV screens. If you don't like some of the stuff you see, tell your kids why it's not right for them to do the same."

I would love to know how you explain that to kids?

I wouldn't try because I know there's no logical explanation.
It isn?t the kids he?s appealing to here it?s the parents. There?s a belief that what happens in the ?win at all costs? professional arena will filter on through to the junior and amateur ranks, and if such behavior does arise then its up to the parents or adults in attendance to discipline and educate unacceptable behavior. What he suggests is something that most parents do as a matter of course anyway but here in League-land, somehow the responsibly for nurturing acceptable behavior in children has transferred from parents and adults to the game itself. That?s it in a nutshell although he?s also alluded to the fact that junior footie is as safe as any sport for kids and that there are more versions of League than just the professional version that fills the screens.
 

Manu Vatuvei

Coach
Messages
17,239
It isn?t the kids he?s appealing to here it?s the parents. There?s a belief that what happens in the ?win at all costs? professional arena will filter on through to the junior and amateur ranks, and if such behavior does arise then its up to the parents or adults in attendance to discipline and educate unacceptable behavior. What he suggests is something that most parents do as a matter of course anyway but here in League-land, somehow the responsibly for nurturing acceptable behavior in children has transferred from parents and adults to the game itself. That?s it in a nutshell although he?s also alluded to the fact that junior footie is as safe as any sport for kids and that there are more versions of League than just the professional version that fills the screens.

Agreed, however I don't think there's actually any logical explanation you could give as to why little kids shouldn't punch on if the big kids do.
 

Bengal

Juniors
Messages
877
Agreed, however I don't think there's actually any logical explanation you could give as to why little kids shouldn't punch on if the big kids do.
Don?t let logic get in the way of parenting, why as parents do most parents stay up later than their children and yet insist that their children go to bed earlier. Now where is the logic in that! The simple fact is that logic plays second fiddle to turning out well behaved kids.
 

Walt Flanigan

Referee
Messages
20,727
I tend to lay a lot of sh*t on Gus but that was a very good article and I 100% agree with all points raised.

I'm very concerned about what this game will look like in the next 5 - 10 years if we keep pandering to political correctness.
 

Manu Vatuvei

Coach
Messages
17,239
Don?t let logic get in the way of parenting, why as parents do most parents stay up later than their children and yet insist that their children go to bed earlier. Now where is the logic in that! The simple fact is that logic plays second fiddle to turning out well behaved kids.

Cos little kids need more sleep.

(Get your point but that's a pretty ordinary example :p)

So when parents teach their kids not to punch other kids in the cranium do they not really mean it, because when the kids get a bit older they should be smashing skulls? I don't really get it and I've been following this sport for 20+ years (not much compared to some I know).

I hate when I see proper examples of the game becoming too sanitised, like players being reprimanded for doing nothing wrong, but I don't mind when I see players being reprimanded for doing something wrong- like punching or high tackles. I can't be the only one who feels this way.
 

macnaz

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
8,517
Good point.

And what about the kids themselves?

When I was 13, I was going to play the sport I wanted to, regardless of what mum (or dad) wished.

Lets be honest though, Rugby League is not for every kid, never has been.

You need to be a certain type, and perhaps those brought up by over protective mums would never be able to cope with playing the game anyway.

Thats so true, we could make all players wear gridiron outfits and make the game touch and those same anti league parents we are ruining the game for WILL STILL be against rugby league and prevent their children playing.
 

chrisD

Coach
Messages
14,843
The people who support the softening of the game are Matt Johns, Alexander, the biggest f**king genius in the game Warren Smith, the DT, bunniesman and his like, the five junior St George mothers who provided the clips for the news and union fans.
 

Bengal

Juniors
Messages
877
Cos little kids need more sleep.
Yep, there are all sorts of reasons why children are sent to bed early and yet parents don?t subject themselves to the same circumstance. These reasons, essentially - for the good of the child - outweigh the logic behind the decision.

So when parents teach their kids not to punch other kids in the cranium do they not really mean it, because when the kids get a bit older they should be smashing skulls?
There?s a misnomer that violence in the game goes unpunished, an understandable misnomer given that a highly published SOO incident was inadequately dealt with by officialdom at the time. This whole furore is over a mishandled incident and now officialdom are overcompensating for their earlier misjudgment. The bottom line is that violence is punished - the degree of punishment is in dispute and not the fact that punishment shouldn?t apply. As such, when little Johnny is disciplined by his parents for poor behavior, said parents only need to point out (should they have to) that the adults they?re emulating were also disciplined, in their own way, as well.
 
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