English lower leagues

[East Coast Tiger]

That would leave 19 clubs below Championship, depending on a few things, and that's a lot for one comp. Would have to split it or make it one round.

 

[adamkungl]

I'd work towards, long term, Super League being an elite level international comp with a big city focus. 12 teams total with a limit of 6 English teams or so. To get more recognition, more sponsors, more TV, more money - League needs to look outwards from the heartlands.

Below that the UK Championship with 12 teams, fully professional high level comp.
Below that League One and League Two with 12 each, both semi-professional.

 

[Tigers1986]

Building the championship to be fully professional would be brilliant for the growth of the game, however, limiting the 'elite' level of SL to 6 English clubs ruins promotion/relegation and disassociates fanbases. Biting the bullet with sponsors and a TV deal could enable the SL and Championship to be 2 strong professional competitions, with a League 1 and 2 established for your semi-professional sides looking to make the leap up to the professional leagues.

 

[CC_Roosters]

That would leave 19 clubs below Championship, depending on a few things, and that's a lot for one comp. Would have to split it or make it one round.

I would suggest splitting the remaining clubs into two groups under the one league. or have league one and league two like suggested by Tigers1986.

P.S. as it's stands now it would be 20 teams, Toronto's entry brings league one up to 16 teams for 2017 + 12 Sl + 12 Ch

If it were 10 + 10 in the super league and championship, as it stands who would get the licences. I would say-

Leeds, Wigan, wire, saints, hull Fc, hull kr, Widnes, castleford, Huddersfield, Wakefield, Leigh, Salford, catalans, Toulouse, Toronto, London, Halifax, featherstone, last 2 best applications (would be nice to have a welsh franchise based in Cardiff and another non heartland club like Newcastle in the mix)



Financially Bradford would have to be excluded for now and Sheffield also for financial and stadia reasons.

Criteria.
Finances
Stadia- capacity, home city, stable lease/ownership
Ability to field academy side
........whatever else they would dream up.

 

[deal.with.it]

How many SL clubs atm can exist based on crowds and sponsors? That is without chairman/owner financial support?

I would guess Leeds, Saints, Warrington, Hull FC, Wigan.

 

[deal.with.it]

I would get rid of the super 8s. Have a one match play off for promotion and relegation.

10 teams SL, 10 pro Championship, 10 League one, 10 league two.

And have requirements for promotion (especially for SL) like average attendances, sponsor income, stadium size. That way a club like Batley could never make it to SL (as an example. I know they dont want to). So what would be your SL and championship?

For me, SL: Wigan, Saints, Warrington, Leeds, Hull FC, Toulouse, Catalan, Toronto, ___ , _____ .

 

[Evil Homer]

How many SL clubs atm can exist based on crowds and sponsors? That is without chairman/owner financial support?

I would guess Leeds, Saints, Warrington, Hull FC, Wigan.

0

 

[Timmah]

Friendly results from overnight:

Featherstone 52 Hunslet Hawks 6
Keighley 82 Hunslet Warriors 12
London 54 Army 8
Hull KR 40 Hull FC 16
Wakefield 30 Dewsbury 26
Swinton 32 Oldham RLFC 14

 

[roughyedspud]

How many SL clubs atm can exist based on crowds and sponsors? That is without chairman/owner financial support?

I would guess Leeds, Saints, Warrington, Hull FC, Wigan.

i don't buy homer saying zero,most clubs run at a profit or a manageable loss,in most cases losses would be due to investing money back into the club,payng off historical debt etc

and from this season the tv grant covers every penny of the salary cap..thats £1.825m clubs don't have to worry about,that in itself should put every SL club into profit..so it's not all doom and gloom

in fact looking at this

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...5/news-story/7b8458e48e8923fe547d3229b74f68cd

id go out on a limb and say the NQ cowboys lost more money than all of the super league in a average season

 

[adamkungl]

Wondering, is P&R generally popular with English RL fans?

Do English fans who are also expansionists believe that effective expansion of the highest level can even take place with P&R?
To me (obvious 'as an outsider' view) it seems too dependent on slim hopes and wealthy owners, limiting the ability to structure the competition in a way that is most beneficial for growth.

Ie. The RFL has no ability to say "We want a team in Paris, we see this as hugely profitable for the game" (rough example, don't take it entirely seriously) and actually implement that. Have to wait for someone wealthy and crazy enough to invest in professional Rugby League.

 

[roughyedspud]

Expansion is about expanding the whole sport not just super league imo...We've tried dumping new teams in at the top or fast tracking them,it doesn't work..

As for P&R...its a must,just not in its current convoluted form

 

[Perth Red]

Why would you invest millions with the potential of one bad season like we had last year seeing it all disappear and having to start again?

If there was enough money in the game for clubs to be sustainable just on their own income and not reliant on owner investment, and if the RFL had the money to put into new clubs in expansion areas to get them developed, and if there was enough TV money to fund SL and the other two divisions adequately then yes P&R would work well. But there isn't so it doesn't.

 

[roughyedspud]

There is enough money...its just being split wrongly

 

[Perth Red]

No there isn't. Most SL clubs were losing massive sums until the reduction to 12 teams and the subsequent increase in RFL payment. Even then some are still financially in strife and reliant on directors filling the gap. Given SL is the comp bringing in the money it needs to be sustainable

I do agree the way the second division is being funded is crazy and should just be a set amount for each club with a promotion payment if anyone manages to go up.

 

[adamkungl]

There's enough money if you're content with the SL being a feeder comp for NRL

 

[roughyedspud]

what i wrote on TRL a few hours ago


As ive said many,many times before..

If all the tv/sky money was put into one big pot and devided fairly instead of backhanders too SL chairmen,sky try ,staggered funding in the championship and league one which has seen a REDUCTION in funding...then all of RL would be on a sounder footing...it could have been split like this

SL clubs £1.825m,per season,which is what they get anyway.


Champ clubs £500k each per season.


League one clubs £250k each per season..

That comes to £31.9m of the £40m a year the tv deals are worth...which leaves the RFL a staggering £8.1m a year to use for developing the sport!

You could play about with that £8.1m..give the SL clubs a extra £175k,giving them £2m a year,i understand we need to keep the SL clubs happy...but of course that'll leave the RFL just £6m a year....

 

[adamkungl]

what i wrote on TRL a few hours ago


As ive said many,many times before..

If all the tv/sky money was put into one big pot and devided fairly instead of backhanders too SL chairmen,sky try ,staggered funding in the championship and league one which has seen a REDUCTION in funding...then all of RL would be on a sounder footing...it could have been split like this

SL clubs £1.825m,per season,which is what they get anyway.


Champ clubs £500k each per season.


League one clubs £250k each per season..

That comes to £31.9m of the £40m a year the tv deals are worth...which leaves the RFL a staggering £8.1m a year to use for developing the sport!

You could play about with that £8.1m..give the SL clubs a extra £175k,giving them £2m a year,i understand we need to keep the SL clubs happy...but of course that'll leave the RFL just £6m a year....

Whats the current division of funds?

 

[adamkungl]

For what its worth the NRL apparently needs roughly 10 times that amount to run the sport here lol... NRLs running costs almost come to the total amount it funds the 16 clubs. And then they cry poor for increasing funding or expansion.

 

[roughyedspud]

Whats the current division of funds?

ESL clubs get £1.825m

1st & 2nd in the championship get £550k & £500k, 3 to 12 get £200-150k, cos hull kr got relegated i think they get £780k..

League one clubs get £75k..

The range of funding in the championship is downright ridiculous,clubs are living season to season..

Imagine if they all knew that they'll recieve £500k each,every season,for 5 years!, likewise league one clubs getting £250k every year for 5 years..they'll be able to set out long term business plans,earmark funds for junior development etc...


But nnnoooooo...

 

[adamkungl]

Ok wheres the 7 million-odd difference between your model and the current one come from?
RFL wastage?

Do they publicly publish an annual report like the NRL do?