Enough talent for expansion?

[Prometheus]

Mal Meninga wrote in The Sunday Mail on March 24-

The quality of the football and the closeness of this year's competition in the opening rounds should act as a cautionary note for the game's administrators not to rush into the idea of expanding the competition.

It is a trap the game fell into once - the league blowing out from 16 teams to 20 in 1995 before the outbreak of the Super League war.
Put simply the game - just like in 1995 - does not have the depth of talent to carry an additional two teams for an 18-club competition.

I was wondering whether people here agreed with that.

The Eels are the only team that has not made the finals in the past three seasons and every team has played finals footy within the last four seasons. It is a long way from the game of the nineties when there were teams who hadn't made the finals for a decade or more and weren't expected to for years to come.

Could the competition remain this competitive with the talent pool stretched to accommodate 18 teams?

Would more teams stop players defecting to the ESL and rugby union?

Would a temporary loss in competitiveness be worth the cost if leads to more juniors playing the game in non-traditional regions? (Melbourne blooded their first Victorian born and bred player last year and WA are already producing NRL players from their junior competition)

 

[Perth Red]

I think if you just took what we have now and had no strategy or intention of growing the pool it might be a fair point. What we know is that talent in WA, Vic, PNG, Fiji and other PI's and to a lessor degree NZ is still massively underdeveloped and untapped. Throw in the fact that the S15 are reducing their salary cap whilst NRL is increasing every year and you have another talent pool of RU Jnr's just waiting to be picked.Finally add the cream of the crop from the UK and I think there is plenty of potential to have 450 top grade quality players.

The key is to mirror expansion at the top with expansion at grass roots.

 

[gyallop]

I guess that is why Mal was a propenent of the events in the 1995!

There is no shortage of talent , the growth in junior numbers deals with that , what there is a shortage of is a genuine development of that talent. If the ARLC finally does something other than hand more money to NRL clubs then hopefully it is true development and even if not the new clubs will provide an opportunity for blokes say in the Qld Cup to step up who just need that chance.

 

[docbrown]

I think if you just took what we have now and had no strategy or intention of growing the pool it might be a fair point. What we know is that talent in WA, Vic, PNG, Fiji and other PI's and to a lessor degree NZ is still massively underdeveloped and untapped. Throw in the fact that the S15 are reducing their salary cap whilst NRL is increasing every year and you have another talent pool of RU Jnr's just waiting to be picked.Finally add the cream of the crop from the UK and I think there is plenty of potential to have 450 top grade quality players.

The key is to mirror expansion at the top with expansion at grass roots.

Yep there just needs to be better player identification and development pathways which the NRL now has the money to create and expand.

In the long run if they start pouring money into the non-heartland states, country areas and pacific it's going to benefit the game long term any way. Once you start getting players from those places making it in the NRL that leads to a snowball effect and pretty soon young athletes start seeing the NRL as their number one choice.

And also who knows how many players aren't stepping up simply because no one's been looking...

 

[adamkungl]

There is enough talent for expansion.

A new team needs a couple of big names, a bunch of solid first graders, and some talented youngsters. If they recruit 1 decent first grader from each side the overall hit on the competition quality is pretty much negligible.

Imo suggestions of diluting talent are largely pessimistic nonsense.

Also Mal's a merkin.

 

[Misanthrope]

If we hadn't crippled reserve grade, we'd be laughing.

Plenty of untapped talent in NZ, the Pacific, England, and even states not named NSW or QLD.

 

[newman]

No. There isn't. There is barely enough for the number of teams we have now. Taulima Tautai, Luke Walsh, Matthew Wright, Thomas Leuleui, David Simmons, Jamie Soward and Mitchell Pearce being regular first graders is proof enough.

 

[Paullyboy]

I fear that if we expand to 18, the English game will get destroyed. It's only a matter of time until Tomkins comes out here, and if we steal a few more playmakers from the competition to help fill up these new teams I think the standard of Super League will deteriorate rapidly.

Having said that, that's probably not a good enough reason to avoid expansion.

 

[Prometheus]

No. There isn't. There is barely enough for the number of teams we have now. Taulima Tautai, Luke Walsh, Matthew Wright, Thomas Leuleui, David Simmons, Jamie Soward and Mitchell Pearce being regular first graders is proof enough.

Jamie Soward took his team to a premiership two and a half years ago.

I fear that if we expand to 18, the English game will get destroyed. It's only a matter of time until Tomkins comes out here, and if we steal a few more playmakers from the competition to help fill up these new teams I think the standard of Super League will deteriorate rapidly.

Having said that, that's probably not a good enough reason to avoid expansion.

Do you really think there would be an exodus from the English Super League? There is a lot more money over there.

 

[Misanthrope]

More teams. More opportunities.

Extra clubs mean extra facilities and extra pathways, and that will eventually lead to more players. No sport grows by staying the same. Otherwise soccer would just make do with a 10 team Premier League and be done with it.

 

[docbrown]

I fear that if we expand to 18, the English game will get destroyed. It's only a matter of time until Tomkins comes out here, and if we steal a few more playmakers from the competition to help fill up these new teams I think the standard of Super League will deteriorate rapidly.

Having said that, that's probably not a good enough reason to avoid expansion.

Then the RFL needs to force the issue with the NRL to ensure that there's a cap on how many SL players can transfer to the NRL etc.

The NRL & RFL need to stop navel gazing and not just do what's good for their competitions but what's good for the game in general.

 

[Misanthrope]

Then the RFL needs to force the issue with the NRL to ensure that there's a cap on how many SL players can transfer to the NRL etc.

The NRL & RFL need to stop navel gazing and not just do what's good for their competitions but what's good for the game in general.

It's an interesting fantasy world you live in where the RFL has the power to tell the NRL anything.

 

[Prometheus]

Well they don't, but they could threaten to remove the cap on Australian players in the ESL.

 

[Dogs Of War]

Do you really think there would be an exodus from the English Super League? There is a lot more money over there.

There may be in the short term, but in the long term there would be enough players who don't adapt, get homesick or chase bigger coin in England that it would balance itself out.

If anything I think the standard in the Esl would improve because of the experience gained.

 

[docbrown]

It's an interesting fantasy world you live in where the RFL has the power to tell the NRL anything.

No one benefits if the standard of the super league and English rugby league declines. There are mutual tournaments that the Nrl and sl are committed to and would be negatively impacted if that we're to occur. Although there are some who decry international rugby league, it is a major promotional tool that the Nrl holds over fumbleball.

 

[juro]

More teams => more demand for players => more opportunities for young players => more athletes playing rugby league => more talent

It may take a few years, but in the long run, there would be no difference in the quality of games played. Every year we lose players to retirement, injury, overseas, other codes, but there are always an exciting batch of youngsters to take their place. If there are 2 more teams, clubs may lose an extra couple players, but they would be replaced by the next generation.

 

[Fonzie]

2 new teams would dilute the talent pool and personally I don't think the current pool will support it. But we could add 2 new squads worth of players within 5 years just by setting up a png academy (in say townsville) and a pacific academy in say brisbane. Bring 25 gun players over at each of 16s, 18s and 20s level, let them play in qld rep comps and holden cup, and give them top coaching and sport science. You'd have 5 new first graders a year out of each academy (and improve international footy out of sight).

 

[Perth Red]

2 new teams would dilute the talent pool and personally I don't think the current pool will support it. But we could add 2 new squads worth of players within 5 years just by setting up a png academy (in say townsville) and a pacific academy in say brisbane. Bring 25 gun players over at each of 16s, 18s and 20s level, let them play in qld rep comps and holden cup, and give them top coaching and sport science. You'd have 5 new first graders a year out of each academy (and improve international footy out of sight).

Do the same for Fiji, Samoa, WA and NT and you would have more than enough new talent. Arlc need to spending their money and investing in this now ready for new teams in 2016/17.

 

[Illiterate]

The talent is currently not there I think the nrl needs to apply pressure on A couple of sydney teams to merge. Throw a lot of money at them give them salary cap exceptions give there current members free membership for the new team for a couple of years. When this happens then the nrl can think of expanding into Perth or the central coast.

 

[Kirky]

Catch 22. Talent base doesn't currently exist for expansion, quality of the game will suffer if we do expand. But if we don't expand, the talent base will never grow.

The talent base for expansion didn't exist for AFL either. Their competition has suffered immensly because of this dilution, and AFL boffins I work with are of the view it'll remain that way for many more years yet. Only time will tell if it was all worth it for them.