ESL decrease to 12 teams..??

[East Coast Tiger]

Thankfully it seems the clubs have realised how terrible going back to 12 would be.

http://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyle...=rleague/10/02/08/RUGBYL_Super_Nightlead.html

 

[Evil Homer]

Don't think it was ever seriously going to go down to 12.

 

[WireMan]

One of the main criteria for the new franchises is going to be the stadium.

Saints, Salford, Cas, and Wakey have been told they need new stadiums. If they don't get them, the're in trouble.

Saints are starting theres soon. Salford are apparently starting soon (we have heard this many times before). Wakey or Cas i think are going to really struggle. They have like Salford been building there stadiums for ever.

Widnes have a stadium and are ready to go, and meet rest of criteria except the silly 20 mile thing.

Quins have a stadium even though they can't fill it, Crusaders have one (assuming they know where they will be), so the expansion clubs should be fine.

Bradford have a poor stadium but it only need re developing and is good/big enough if they give it a lick of paint. HKR need serious re development or they may come under pressure from Toulouse or Barrow.

Wire, Wigan, Leeds, Huddersfield, Hull and Catalans will be fine.

 

[Teddyboy]

Super League should look like this
Leeds
Wigan
St.Helens
Hull
Hull KR
Calder
Cheshire
Cumbria
Cornwall
Gateshead
Blackpool
Catalans
Toulouse
?

 

[Jankuloski]

^Stay in sh*tsville with no Leeds in SL..

I have seen KR stadium while watching their games and from what I see there is a lot of room for building new terraces.

I recall seing an article on super league website about Saints signing a major deal in regards to the new stadium. As far as I gathered, the company that is suppose to redevelop the new stadium into a mall has cashed in some 2 million pounds into the club, and everything is going according to plan.

 

[Evil Homer]

Super League should look like this
Wigan
St.Helens
Hull
Hull KR
Calder
Cheshire
Cumbria
Cornwall
Gateshead
Blackpool
Catalans
Toulouse

Pathetic, get a grip.

 

[Teddyboy]

sh*t forgot Leeds so it needs another team to make it 14.

 

[winnyason]

To me salford seems in real trouble, while it seems to me quins are untouchable because it is london there crowds are a joke.
What chance a 15 team comp with a independant funded paris team?
Wakefield, castleford, salford, crusaders and quins need to pull up there socks. To me halifax, widnes, barrow and maybe toulouse are a chance

Toulouse spot seems set on a good performance this year along with the rumoured french tv deal similar to sky nz with nrl.

 

[Jankuloski]

They always go on about how participation levels are thriving there... but that should translate into crowds as well..

 

[Evil Homer]

Why should it? It can take as long to cross London as it does to get from Hull to Warrington. This is a city three times the size of Sydney. People will have no affinity at all to Harlequins, not least because of their name and location. I would certainly not be interested in supporting Harlequins if I lived in London. I really think that if a new London club was set up with a permanent home and proper finances, then it would be a massive success. Harlequins is not that club and, while they are important from a geographical point of view at the moment, IMO they don't have the potential to really be any bigger than they currently are.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

Why should it? It can take as long to cross London as it does to get from Hull to Warrington. This is a city three times the size of Sydney. People will have no affinity at all to Harlequins, not least because of their name and location. I would certainly not be interested in supporting Harlequins if I lived in London. I really think that if a new London club was set up with a permanent home and proper finances, then it would be a massive success. Harlequins is not that club and, while they are important from a geographical point of view at the moment, IMO they don't have the potential to really be any bigger than they currently are.

Is it just the name thas the problem or is it the actual club itself?

 

[Evil Homer]

Is it just the name thas the problem or is it the actual club itself?

Obviously if it was just the name then that could be remedied. The thing is that people think of London as a location like Wigan or Hull, but in reality it's more like 33 smaller cities joined together which are all the same size as Wigan. That is why 'London Broncos' under their various guises never worked - they tried to attract fans from all over London, and were naturally just completely diluted, it was like sending a signal into space. They also kept moving location, so could not establish any community links. Now, since becoming Harlequins, they have been targeting the local community. The problem there is that Harlequins RU is a huge brand that have been targeting this same community for years - the majority will probably already be Quins RU fans, and the rest will not be interested in watching rugby. When they became Harlequins RL, the club assumed that RU fans would also support the RL, but obviously this hasn't happened, just as hardly any Parramatta fans would actually go and support an Eels basketball team if one was launched, for example. The result is that the club attract pretty much the same crowds as they did 10 years ago - give or take, it's the same 2,500 who have followed the club since they started at Fulham. Looking at it objectively, it's pretty obvious to see why they have not been able to increase attendances while massively boosting playing numbers and junior participation all over London. Like I said, I think there's massive potential for pro RL in London, but it would probably need to be a totally new club. The existing Quins fans are now against another move, and there don't appear to be any financial options for the club other than to stay as Quins, but they will never progress under that guise. I'm a die hard expansionist and have given up on them.

 

[VictoryFC]

They always go on about how participation levels are thriving there... but that should translate into crowds as well..

Why? In Australia soccer has had the participation levels at dizzying heights, yet that has rarely translated into support for the national competition.

 

[Jankuloski]

Because the problem of RL is not that people don't want to watch it, it's ususally that they haven't heard of it. Everyone has heard of soccer.

@Evil Homer:
So, what do you think the new team should be? Target which area?

 

[winnyason]

Look from listening to lewis on bbc, they will survive but what for the future the union side has massive attendances yet quins are very very poor. The reason they will stay in are obvious with tv rights and getting media coverage outside the heartland plus the cc final is in london. But maybe skolars or a easier ground to attract fans? when branson was invovled they had averages at 6 thousand for half a season.

It is quite obvious lewis is pushing ahead with expansion whether people like it or not,
to me the stadium thing is the way to push the lower profile heartland teams back to build there stadiums and continue to expand superleague's scope.
The other thing that was not said is the did not rule out going to more teams just not back to 12, the question remains if indeed the french federation can get a seperate tv deal then more than 14 is possible.
Teams in real trouble if stadiums don't happen before 2011:
Wakefield - there crowds are poor to start with in real trouble if building does not start you would think could be back to championship til 2015.
Castleford - hard core support around, a lot better than wakey. But need stadium to start.
Salford - They are gone you would think, the stadium delayed won't start till 2011 and crowds are very poor back to championship till 2015.

Both saints and bradford need to build stadiums, indeed it would be silly to drop them back however they are too big of clubs to do this. You would think crusaders and quins are safe while catalans are bringing there attendance up to 12 thousand.
this is how it looks.

Certain: Wigan, Leeds, Warrington, Saints, Bradford, Catalans, Hull.
Proable: Hull kr, Hudderfield.
Just squezze in: Quins, Crusaders.
In the danger zone: Salford, Wakefield, Castleford.
Looking to move up: Widnes, Halifax, Featherstone, Barrow.
New Expansion zone: Toulouse.

 

[WireMan]

If Saints don't get there stadium they are in trouble. Chances are they will get it, but should something fall through they will be ground sharing with Widnes.

If Salford can get there stadium going they will be safe. Manchester is seen as an expansion area, especially with the BBC moving into the media city in Salford Quays.

Of course they are ifs buts and maybes. I think the RFL will be looking for actual work done this time round, last time there were plenty of promises but no action.

 

[Wilson1]

If Saints don't get there stadium they are in trouble. Chances are they will get it, but should something fall through they will be ground sharing with Widnes.

If Salford can get there stadium going they will be safe. Manchester is seen as an expansion area, especially with the BBC moving into the media city in Salford Quays.

Of course they are ifs buts and maybes. I think the RFL will be looking for actual work done this time round, last time there were plenty of promises but no action.

Saints get good crowds, are good on the field and will not be relegated.

Salford have been there for what? 100 years? In all that time they haven't done anything to spread the game into Manchester. Honestly, it's a waste of time worrying about Manchester. The stadium is only worth one point so no way will the fact that Salford have a new stadium keep them there over Saint Helens.

 

[Evil Homer]

I'll be amazed if Salford have a new stadium within 10 years. It's already been 10 years since they announced it and they haven't even thought about breaking ground yet. Shocking attendance for tonight's game too and they were soundly beaten by Crusaders, I will have no issues if they are replaced by Widnes next time.

 

[nadera78]

I think Salford will get a new stadium because the city council is involved now and is putting up half the cash up front to be re-couped later. Peel Holdings are paying the other half. The problem is Salford won't own the ground and I fear Sale rahrah might end up playing there as well, and not only are they a more competitive team in their comp but they also have a very wealthy backer (although he's a pig of a man) and a docile media lapping up everything they say.

Compared to Salford who are really struggling to hold onto some very good juniors that have come through in the last couple of years and are operating on a shoestring. We do need a strong club there, but I don't know if Salford are that club.

 

[RedVee]

Obviously if it was just the name then that could be remedied. The thing is that people think of London as a location like Wigan or Hull, but in reality it's more like 33 smaller cities joined together which are all the same size as Wigan. That is why 'London Broncos' under their various guises never worked - they tried to attract fans from all over London, and were naturally just completely diluted, it was like sending a signal into space. They also kept moving location, so could not establish any community links. Now, since becoming Harlequins, they have been targeting the local community. The problem there is that Harlequins RU is a huge brand that have been targeting this same community for years - the majority will probably already be Quins RU fans, and the rest will not be interested in watching rugby. When they became Harlequins RL, the club assumed that RU fans would also support the RL, but obviously this hasn't happened, just as hardly any Parramatta fans would actually go and support an Eels basketball team if one was launched, for example. The result is that the club attract pretty much the same crowds as they did 10 years ago - give or take, it's the same 2,500 who have followed the club since they started at Fulham. Looking at it objectively, it's pretty obvious to see why they have not been able to increase attendances while massively boosting playing numbers and junior participation all over London. Like I said, I think there's massive potential for pro RL in London, but it would probably need to be a totally new club. The existing Quins fans are now against another move, and there don't appear to be any financial options for the club other than to stay as Quins, but they will never progress under that guise. I'm a die hard expansionist and have given up on them.

Thats interesting.
I know that my cousin and his wife would go to watch the London Broncos spasmodically but they stopped when they became the Harliquins.
They live in Hampshire not far from Aldershot and would nick up to watch them.
One day they were at a function (of some sort) and she was talking to a bloke from Harliquins who proceeded to put excrement all over Rugby League. She vowed to never have anything to do with the Quins, then a year or two later they go and rebadge the Broncos..... Karma is a bitch.