Euro seedings

[screeny]

OK using Wales as an example, apart from the last RLWC where there were too many non Welsh in the team we have put out a majority welsh born and bred team in all cups. Looking at the future 90%+ of the team will be playing their trade in the Welsh League or with the Crusaders in the Northern Leagues.

My gripe with the exile lebanese team and others is that the players are true blue aussies who play for these teams because it suits them. They have never set foot in the country they represent, can't speak the language and in all honesty have no interest either. I welcome the real lebanese team who live, work and play there.

I am all for promoting the game to new countries but lets help them train their players rather than setting up false lebanese teams based in Oz

So which reason are you railing against: the fact that players from Lebanon play abroad or the fact that they don't hold lebanese passports?

Look at Ireland at the 2000 World Cup: players born in Ireland? I would suggest one, in Carney (but can certainly be proved wrong). In any event a lot less than the number of Lebanese players born in Lebanon. What about Irish players playing in the domestic competition? Zero.

Scotland, all were Aussies or northern English. Players in the domestic comp? Zero.

Wales? Hmmn, not the stars like Harris, or Cunningham, or Sullivan....or any of them? Players playing in the domestic comp? Zero, as Yanto has pointed out , there wasn't one!

Mate, just because Australia is further away from Lebanon, or Malta, or Greece, than Ireland is from Manchester or Leeds, doesn't make the principle any less similar.

In fact, looking at the Scots, Welsh, irish and Lebanese at the 2000 World Cup, the Lebanese probably had the most 'authentic' team if you base it on birth place! You can't base it on living and working in the country they were representing as I would guess that NOT ONE PLAYER from all those four nations were doing that in 2000, or 1999....or ever?

I think we should be clear: Malta and Greece, while not deserving invective, should be barred from the WC as they don't meet certain criteria, but Lebanon, who have done the hard yards and are in fact weakening thier own national team by including local novices, should be applauded. RL will only get stronger because of it.

 

[brendothejet]

Serbia to be bolters...

 

[hutch]

Although living and growing up in Australia, many do so surrounded by their Lebanese culture, and live in areas where the culture (and shop signage etc.) are largely Arabic. I think some of these people would aspire to represent the Cedars.

and thats where a problem lies in rugby league and in society. they should aspire to represent their country, the kangaroos!

 

[disco1]

and thats where a problem lies in rugby league and in society. they should aspire to represent their country, the kangaroos!

Bang on the money!

If they:

Don't hold Lebanese/Greek/Maltese passports
Haven't lived - most never stepped foot
Were not born there
No REAL links - not my great.g..g.g.g.g. grandfather was from there!

Then they should be trying to play for Oz.

On some other thread you got players being mentioned to play for Holland just because they have a Dutch sounding name!!!! That is whats wrong with International RL

 

[screeny]

Bang on the money!

If they:

Don't hold Lebanese/Greek/Maltese passports
Haven't lived - most never stepped foot
Were not born there
No REAL links - not my great.g..g.g.g.g. grandfather was from there!

Then they should be trying to play for Oz.

On some other thread you got players being mentioned to play for Holland just because they have a Dutch sounding name!!!! That is whats wrong with International RL

Mate, the last line of your post gives me something to take a contrary position to! All the rest of it I find hard to argue with, but.......'that's what's wrong with int'l RL'. Actually, that's what's wrong with EVERY INTERNATIONAL SPORT IN THE WORLD THEN.

Every major sport utilises the GP and residency rule. There are far too many examples in almost every major sport to use as examples, but the fact that there are so many tells us that the system covers all sports and is so widespread that it has become the accepted norm.

As I said before RL is putting obstacles in the way of 100% expat teams - no other sport does that.

Our sport is different because in others indigenous federations will invite foreign eligible players to play for them (the Brazilians who play football for Tunisia, Dos Santos and the right back whose name eludes me, are two topical examples) while in RL whole bands of expat foreigners begin RL in GB or Australia and try to transplant it to the country they nominally represent!

 

[bowes]

back to basis of having a domestic competition to be recognised.
People forget that ireland,Scotland,wales,canada,SA etc etc all played in the last WC with wales reaching the semi final.
Domestic comps. at the time ...NONE of the above.

As I have said previously.people sometimes expect to much to quick.
Wales have been playing on and off for over 100 years yet their domestic comp is only in its third season.
Ireland in its second after over 2o years at it and the same or similar to Scotland.

Several inaccuracies there, Scotland and I think SA had domestic comps at the last world cup (Wales and lebanon didn't) and Ireland's was merely suspended for a couple of seasons. Scotland RL is about to enter its 10th season and Ireland its 6th season back.

 

[brendothejet]

Someone back a page was talking about the lebanese rep players.

I for one know a few of these blokes and have spoken to them about playing for lebanon. There is an immense sense of pride, but also an awareness of what they are doing.

They are more than aware they are Australebanese, but each one has said they are hopeful that what they do can be looked back upon one day when lebanese RL is strong on its own.

As a case in point I met Hassan Saleh, a former first grader dwindling in a bit of Rugby league obscurity, and asked him if he was going to try and play with lebanon during the world cup.

and i quote:

"mate, if i can get back in there I'd love to. I love those games. Really special"

Okay so he's no wordsmith, but the sentiment is there.

One thing that RL has always had is very passionate fans and players. In almost every corner of the globe where the game is played we face constant baggin (if not worse) from our soccer and union counterparts. However it is this passion which keeps us going. (not to mention the awesome fun that is RL)

Now we see people across the world pouring huge amounts of time into developing the game. I really don't see the point in hanging sh*t on these people.

For the case of the WC countries should not be allowed to qualify unless they meet the home comps/player requirements. goes without saying.

However, can it really hurt RL if people in sydney or brisbane or wherever get together to represent their country of origin?

What if I move to Ireland and marry an Irish woman. We havea son who grows up playing league in the local comp. He then aspires to play for Australia because of is heritage through me and the rest of his family.

Keeping in mind if he is my son he would inherit my skill and therefore would be an assest to the country, would you all try and deny him the chance to represent his heritage?

Remember heritage is a big part of nationality. Without our history we aren't australia.

Just my thoughts. As always I believe Yanto, Der Keiser and all the other devlopers are doing the most commendable job. I love your work all of you and wish you nothing but the best.

 

[screeny]

Well said, brendothejet......

 

[YANTO]

Several inaccuracies there, Scotland and I think SA had domestic comps at the last world cup (Wales and lebanon didn't) and Ireland's was merely suspended for a couple of seasons. Scotland RL is about to enter its 10th season and Ireland its 6th season back.

Ok lets spilt the difference.
Scotland you say ten years I said @ 20 years.
Scotland Students ,the forerunner of todays Scottish RL and set up by current RLEF Development Officer Kevin Rudd began in 1989 that makes it 17 years old>>>..http://www.angelfire.com/pr/srl/students.html

Ireland's first International was in 1995 making them 11 years old.
Ireland A def. USA 24-22 (16/3/1995)
Ireland def. Morocco 42-6 (24/10/1995)
Ok maybe I didnt do enough research before posting.
I wa suprised to read that the Scottish domestic comp has been going since 1997 but did the Irish have a competition before the RLI reformed??
I do know Dublin Blues were the first team formed in 1991 but they played touring teams.

 

[bowes]

Sorry, I meant Scottish league had been going 10 years. I'll give you 20 years.
I think there was a league 1997 and 1998, maybe even 1999 I'm not certain the exact years. Reformed 2001. It was a low profile league, but it is the new Irish conference that has had 2 seasons, there had been a small RLI comp the 3 seasons before

 

[hutch]

Every major sport utilises the GP and residency rule. There are far too many examples in almost every major sport to use as examples, but the fact that there are so many tells us that the system covers all sports and is so widespread that it has become the accepted norm.

As I said before RL is putting obstacles in the way of 100% expat teams - no other sport does that.

yeah but the difference is, that the sport is usually played in that country, and the teams arent made up 100% of players from anotehr country. we are not saying they should scrap the gp rule, it just needs to be policed properly.

 

[otag]

the pi teams rort the qualification rule to the max. forget the lebanons, italys, greeces, maltas, portugals, hollands, germanys etc, they are following the gp rules to staying legal with it. but the pi teams have players playing that could have represented other pi teams, and/or have already.

 

[screeny]

yeah but the difference is, that the sport is usually played in that country, and the teams arent made up 100% of players from anotehr country. we are not saying they should scrap the gp rule, it just needs to be policed properly.

I agree with you. I made that same point elsewhere (or on here, can't remember): the thing that makes RL look silly is that, while in other sports national federations may invite eligible 'foreign' players to represent their country, in RL we have the entirely unique situation where expats try and transplant the sport 'home'.

personally I put this down to the century of natural development RL has been deprived of due to its ban in the armed forces and its absence from the education system.

 

[winnyason]

why the hell don't rlef run the whole show the rlif, they acutually have plans and info can anyone find colin love paging............mr love.

 

[spook]

this thread seems to put attract people in 2 categories


1) those who give their time , money and effort to help set up RL in new countries...


and

2) those who like to sit on their fat arses and pontificate about how those in group 1 are doing it wrong.

 

[Kurt Angle]

back to basis of having a domestic competition to be recognised.
People forget that ireland,Scotland,wales,canada,SA etc etc all played in the last WC with wales reaching the semi final.
Domestic comps. at the time ...NONE of the above.

As I have said previously.people sometimes expect to much to quick.
Wales have been playing on and off for over 100 years yet their domestic comp is only in its third season.
Ireland in its second after over 2o years at it and the same or similar to Scotland.
The likes of Serbia is the exception with a four team REAL DOMESTIC competition going into its fifth year which was created a lot quicker than the welsh,irish and Scots.
If in Holland we have a six or eight team competition fully running in 2026 THAT IS SUCCESS.
This year we have three clubs playing friendlies and touring teams plus Rotterdam Nines.
We have two clubs at under 11 playing english opposition (Oh kids development NOW thats a new thouight!!)
organising a comp takes a lot more work and recruitment than people realise and to be honest why does the success of senior football have to show how succesful a new nation is.
I would rather(if we did it again) start out with under 11's and build up from their.
12 years time these kids are the senior players who have been brought up on the code.
If that happened would Holland be deemed succesful even though they didnt have a senior International side for ten years??
Every country (us included) have started at the top with the aim to work down.
Maybe this is the wrong idea and the use of union players and facilities has maybe worked against.

hehe, maybe 16 months onwards you may have a different view of this thread then

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=90873

 

[winnyason]

this thread seems to put attract people in 2 categories


1) those who give their time , money and effort to help set up RL in new countries...


and

2) those who like to sit on their fat arses and pontificate about how those in group 1 are doing it wrong

good call f**khead, it is a fact rlef are very proactive while the rlif is very passive.
speaking of fat how did your mum recover from that spit roasting last week, the kama stustra was getting a good run that night.
get your views right loser, you are a a mid 30's loser who has nothing better to do or B a young idiot, either way proably never played the game unlike myself, and think administators don't look out for themselves and not for better of sport.
keep dreamin wankeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer.

 

[YANTO]

hehe, maybe 16 months onwards you may have a different view of this thread then

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=90873

2003 when we were following the trend of "lets convertunion players as a starting point"

We have learned from our mistakes and if we had to do it all over again we would change our whole method of introducing the game.
At the RLEF meeting last week we all had to stand up and give advice to how to help a new nations start up.one that had no history or no access to media coverage of league.
Out of every group (we were split into groups of four nations) three mentioned union players as a starting point.
Our group which included Holland,Ireland and Czech Republic were the only ones NOT TO MENTION this and I think it made people sit up a little and take notice of maybe why a lot of the new European nations are not making the inroads into union clubs they were expecting.
I personaly would advise any one else thinking of starting up to begin with the youngest age group possible and forget senior football for at least ten years.
After all ten years is a small wait to get the structure right from the bottom up not the top down .
Yes some RU players love the game but the clubs in general over here are very anti league.
Big learning curve.

 

[Gruenen]

2003 when we were following the trend of "lets convertunion players as a starting point"

We have learned from our mistakes and if we had to do it all over again we would change our whole method of introducing the game.
At the RLEF meeting last week we all had to stand up and give advice to how to help a new nations start up.one that had no history or no access to media coverage of league.
Out of every group (we were split into groups of four nations) three mentioned union players as a starting point.
Our group which included Holland,Ireland and Czech Republic were the only ones NOT TO MENTION this and I think it made people sit up a little and take notice of maybe why a lot of the new European nations are not making the inroads into union clubs they were expecting.
I personaly would advise any one else thinking of starting up to begin with the youngest age group possible and forget senior football for at least ten years.
After all ten years is a small wait to get the structure right from the bottom up not the top down .
Yes some RU players love the game but the clubs in general over here are very anti league.
Big learning curve.

Hey Yanto,

Hoe zijn u, wie geht's.

I think you make a very valid comment, and it is great to see Rugby League take big strides. The concept of starting Rugby League at an earlier age group is where I would target the game to start, but what we also have to ensure is that the Rugby Union clubs do not entice our players away from the game at a later stage. It is for this very reason that we must ensure that our players have a future in our game if it means having to play for example in a English competition.
I am very annoyed that the Rugby Union Clubs here in Europe are very anti league, although I have yet to come across it here in Germany.
The comment you express here has the opposite effect in New Zealand, which is where I originally come from (but for the moment I am living in Eisenach, and lecturing in Sports Science in Leipzig, Germany). The League and Union Clubs in New Zealand exist side by side and do assist each other. From my city of Wanganui, New Zealand, the lads at home often play Union on Saturday and League on Sunday, some of the Union Clubs even share the same grounds and training facilities with their League counterparts, this I know because I have been involved in establishing closer relationships between the codes in Wanganui, New Zealand.

 

[spook]

good call f**khead, it is a fact rlef are very proactive while the rlif is very passive.
speaking of fat how did your mum recover from that spit roasting last week, the kama stustra was getting a good run that night.
get your views right loser, you are a a mid 30's loser who has nothing better to do or B a young idiot, either way proably never played the game unlike myself, and think administators don't look out for themselves and not for better of sport.
keep dreamin wankeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer.

thanks....

but my mum died of Cancer just before christmas


my point was that we should all get behind those who are putting in the effort... whoever and wherever they are