Fleming is a disgrace.

[Sam_the_man]

I agree with this thread. Fleming threw the match away and he didn't seem to give a sh*t. The defining moment was not so much the Taylor run-out as the fact that Fleming LEFT the next 5 BALLS from Flintoff. It was one of the most bizarre pieces of cricket I've ever seen- we needed more than a run a ball and he left an entire over of bowling. That was just inexcusable. He seems to have totally lost the plot.

If your going to point the finger for slow batting why not be fair and include Fulton?

 

[JJ]

?

We would've won if Fleming had sacrificed himself on that run-out.

1. Brilliant - thanks Nostradamus
2. I think most things you say at the moment are coloured by your crush on Ross Taylor
3. I think Stephen Boock is on the mark - stupid to blame the one batsman who did score runs http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/4/story.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10422898 at the end of the day if he's have had any support, we win...

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

1. Brilliant - thanks Nostradamus
2. I think most things you say at the moment are coloured by your crush on Ross Taylor
3. I think Stephen Boock is on the mark - stupid to blame the one batsman who did score runs http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/4/story.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10422898 at the end of the day if he's have had any support, we win...

Fleming put us in the sh*t in the first place by scoring slower, and slower, and slower, and then getting out when the run rate was almost unachievable.....he was the one batsman who hung around long enough (good on him) to set us up for what should have been (at least prior to the run-out) an EASY win. But once he got 2/3 of the way through the job he pretty much seemed to chicken out, decided to not hit the ball, and hung around just long enough, whilst refusing to score, to lose us the match.

If I have a crush on Ross Taylor it's because

(a) he scores runs
(b) he scores them quickly

which are good reasons to like a cricketer

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

If your going to point the finger for slow batting why not be fair and include Fulton?

Fulton only faced 30 balls. He struggled and got out cheaply, it happens. Fleming hung around long enough (and hogged about 60% of the strike), scoring slow enough, to just about ensure that we lost.

 

[Scott]

I still think we can win the World Cup. As long as we learn from what happened at the Gabba....

On Fleming, I have a thought...

Lets go back to 1992 WC. Martin Crowe was in the gun. Much the same way as Fleming is now. He was torn apart by everyone for his batting, captaincy, attitude and everything else (including some questioning his sexualality). It got that bad. How did he go in that 1992 WC? Can anyone remember......

I've got a feeling Fleming will turn it on and inspire us to something big.... Very big.

 

[JJ]

Fleming put us in the sh*t in the first place by scoring slower, and slower, and slower, and then getting out when the run rate was almost unachievable.....he was the one batsman who hung around long enough (good on him) to set us up for what should have been (at least prior to the run-out) an EASY win. But once he got 2/3 of the way through the job he pretty much seemed to chicken out, decided to not hit the ball, and hung around just long enough, whilst refusing to score, to lose us the match.

If I have a crush on Ross Taylor it's because

(a) he scores runs
(b) he scores them quickly

which are good reasons to like a cricketer

I agree Taylor is a talent... but let's wait and see - your talking him up like he's Martin Crowe.

The Fleming blame is ridiculous - enough said

 

[JJ]

I still think we can win the World Cup. As long as we learn from what happened at the Gabba....

On Fleming, I have a thought...

Lets go back to 1992 WC. Martin Crowe was in the gun. Much the same way as Fleming is now. He was torn apart by everyone for his batting, captaincy, attitude and everything else (including some questioning his sexualality). It got that bad. How did he go in that 1992 WC? Can anyone remember......

I've got a feeling Fleming will turn it on and inspire us to something big.... Very big.

hmmmm... key difference for me is that if Martin Crowe wasn't the best bat in the world at that stage, he was very close... whereas Flem is not in that class... not even close

 

[Azkatro]

The Fleming blame is ridiculous - enough said

93 dot balls by a single batsman chasing 270! Enough said!

 

[douglasallen91]

Fleming n taylor lost it when they pidded about looking for singles for about 8-10 overs..it was so boring to watch you could have easily fell asleep..one should have fell on his sword so that there wasnt so much pressure on oram who had to go from the first ball

umm taylor scored close to run a ball.

 

[JJ]

93 dot balls by a single batsman chasing 270! Enough said!

I didn't say that he played well..

Just that the game was very winnable if someone had been able to stay with him... to say that a talented kid who has done very little in the game would have won it for us is questionable at best... we were chasing 270 odd, that is never simple (not for NZ anyway) - we all know Fleming's innings was ugly, and an effort - but he was the only batsman to score, so why not blame those that failed in the situation they are supposed to excel in (Styris, Oram, McCullum), or those top order batsmen that got starts and got out (Vincent, Fulton and to a lesser exten Taylor - who was partly to blame for the runout)

 

[Azkatro]

I didn't say that he played well..

Just that the game was very winnable if someone had been able to stay with him... to say that a talented kid who has done very little in the game would have won it for us is questionable at best... we were chasing 270 odd, that is never simple (not for NZ anyway) - we all know Fleming's innings was ugly, and an effort - but he was the only batsman to score, so why not blame those that failed in the situation they are supposed to excel in (Styris, Oram, McCullum), or those top order batsmen that got starts and got out (Vincent, Fulton and to a lesser exten Taylor - who was partly to blame for the runout)

The nature of one day cricket, if the bowling team is doing the job, is that wickets are going to fall. Fleming did superbly to keep his wicket throughout the early overs. Unfortunately Vincent, Fulton, Taylor and Styris didn't cope well enough. The problem was, by the time Oram came in it was clear to all and sundry that Fleming had become a corpse with pads on and the state of the game meant he had no time to settle in before knocking them around. Same goes for McCullum and then Vettori. Vettori demonstrated to his captain that hey, there are boundaries around here mate, why weren't you getting them sooner?

 

[Lego_Man]

Blame it on Styris. He was in, set, but then played a crap shot at a crucial time, forcing Oram to come in and blast it from ball 1.

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

I agree Taylor is a talent... but let's wait and see - your talking him up like he's Martin Crowe.

The Fleming blame is ridiculous - enough said

I'm starting to think you're the one with the Taylor obsession.

Seriously- when was the last time a player came into the NZ ODI side with a domestic OD record like Taylor's? I'll tell you when- NEVER. So of course, I'm more excited about him than any new NZ ODI batsman in my time following the team.

Secondly, how many NZ players have got off to a comparable start in their ODI career? A few, yes- very few. But Taylor, it would be perfectly fair to say, is the only NZ batsman in the last 15 years to come into the ODI side with a fantastic domestic OD record and back it up with a close to comparable international record. So yes, I'm more impressed by him than any NZ ODI batsman in the last 20 years, and imo for perfectly straightforward reasons.

 

[JJ]

I'm starting to think you're the one with the Taylor obsession.

Seriously- when was the last time a player came into the NZ ODI side with a domestic OD record like Taylor's? I'll tell you when- NEVER. So of course, I'm more excited about him than any new NZ ODI batsman in my time following the team.

Secondly, how many NZ players have got off to a comparable start in their ODI career? A few, yes- very few. But Taylor, it would be perfectly fair to say, is the only NZ batsman in the last 15 years to come into the ODI side with a fantastic domestic OD record and back it up with a close to comparable international record. So yes, I'm more impressed by him than any NZ ODI batsman in the last 20 years, and imo for perfectly straightforward reasons.

nah I tend to agree with you - just don't like the pressure being heaped on him - he's still pretty rough

You made a statement that if Flem is run out instead of Taylor we win... don't see it that way at all...

I want him to be a fine player for the next 10+ years -

 

[Manu Vatuvei]

nah I tend to agree with you - just don't like the pressure being heaped on him - he's still pretty rough

You made a statement that if Flem is run out instead of Taylor we win... don't see it that way at all...

I want him to be a fine player for the next 10+ years -

He seems to be pretty rough catching and running between the wickets, but I don't have many problems with his batting.

I made a bit of a rash statement for sure, but my money would've been on NZ....we needed about 100 odd runs at that stage with 7 wickets in hand, Taylor well set, and just over a run a ball. Without 1 batsman scoring at an unacceptably slow rate it would've been easier for everyone imo.