FOOD FOR THOUGHT ?

Discussion in 'Wests Tigers' started by macnaz, Dec 24, 2018.

  1. macnaz

    macnaz Moderator Staff Member

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    I happened to come across this person's posts on www.theroar.com.au and I was that impressed with his posts I really needed to share them.
    the full link is https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/12/...ceo-barry-russell-for-being-too-professional/
    I wasn't that interested in the main article just the quotes I've pasted below.


    In regards to the 1st post
    If the cap rules are VERY VERY clear as Greenberg stats why would the Roosters bother employing an ex NRL salary cap auditor ?
    Anyway have a read , makes a lot of sense to me .


    Roar Rookie
    December 23rd 2018 @ 11:05am
    #6626322
    @ Footy Fan

    In business, there cannot even be the perception of impropriety. Hiring a former NRL salary cap auditor clearly gives the Roosters an advantage over the other 15 clubs, even IF everything IS above board. But there is also the very real possibility that inside knowledge of the NRL salary cap auditing system will be used to effectively allow that club to play a “shell and pea” game with the NRL and move money around to avoid discovery.

    There is also the “potential” for the former auditor to have sympathetic friends on the inside of the system that can give tips or advanced warning of any “potential” action or scrutiny by the NRL. In short, the public “perception” is that there is an unfair advantage for one club over the others. This is made worse by the fact that the former NRL auditor has a LONG association and loyalty to the club in question and therefore a predisposed bias towards them. To argue otherwise is to be either intentionally naive or affected by the same bias. At the very least any rational, fair person has to admit that there IS the “potential” for this to be abused and give one club an advantage over the system and the other 15 clubs.

    Particularly when NO other club has more than ONE player on $1 mill a season much less THREE and ALSO their third highest player is on $850K, TWO players on $650K and TWO more on $500K. Latrell Mitchell and Joseph Manu “should” be on at LEAST $450K. That’s $7,150,000 of a $9,600,000 salary cap for just 10 players! That leaves just $2,450,000 for 20 players! Or $122,500 per player. That’s an NRL rookie salary, NOT a salary for players with international and origin rep experience that should be earning 3 or 4 times that amount.

    JWH $350K* (New Zealand) – 22 Tests
    Liu $300K* (New Zealand/Samoa) – 9 Tests
    Taukeiaho $350K* (New Zealand/Tonga) – 8 Tests
    Tupou $300K* (Australia/Tonga) – 12 Tests, 4 Origins

    Sub-Total = $1,300,000

    * VERY conservative market value estimates (less than market value)

    That leaves “realistically speaking” $1,150,000 for 16 players which averages $71,875 per player with an NRL minimum salary set to $105K in 2019. Little wonder that the Roosters own website only lists 26 players of their compulsory 30 man squad!







    Reg ReaganAuthor
    Roar Rookie
    December 23rd 2018 @ 5:05pm
    #6626433

    “The problem is the way that the salary cap TPA s are set up it encourages clubs to try things that are not the norm.”

    Like lie about the combined total of TPA’s that club has registered. The Roosters have “claimed” to have only $200K in TPA’s. Are they serious? Cronk (38 Tests, 22 Origins) would be on that alone for the first quarter of 2019! Times that by 4 and you get a more realistic figure of $800K.

    Then what about other international and origin rep players like Tedesco (8 Tests, 7 Origins), Cordner (19 Tests, 12 Origins), Crichton (3 Origins), Keary (2 Tests), Morris (18 Tests, 15 Origins), Hall (38 Tests), Mitchell (2 Tests, 3 Origins) and Joseph Manu (3 Tests).

    The Roosters other rep players would also have to be on TPA’s to supplement them being underpaid on the cap, players like; JWH (22 Tests), Tupou (12 Tests, 4 Origins), Taukeiaho (8 Tests), Liu (9 Tests) and Friend (1 Test). In other words an “All Star” rep team with a total of 180 tests and 66 Origins! What other teams can boast such a squad and still be under a $9.6 mill salary cap and claim a combined total of $200K in TPA’s?

    Even South’s estimate would be BS. Greg Inglis and Sam Burgess alone would make up more than the $300K in TPA’s attributed to Souths. It looks more like the NRL made these figures up and forgot to have someone with common sense look at the data before it was released.

    Recent major salary cap breaches:

    Sharks – exceeded the salary cap by up to $250,000 in 2015 and 2017 (2018), Tigers – $400,000 undeclared arrangement with 1 player (Farah) over 4 years (2018), Sea Eagles – exceeded the salary cap by $1.5 million over 5 years (2018), Eels – exceeded the salary cap by $500,000 (2016), Storm – serious and systematic breaches of the salary cap over 5 years exceeding the salary cap by $3.78 million over this period (2006 – 2010), Warriors – exceeded the salary cap by $1.1 million over 2 years (2005), Bulldogs – systematic breaches of the salary cap totaling $2.13 million over 3 years (2000 – 2002).

    The salary cap and TPA’s are a joke and the NRL are choosing which teams to penalise while clearly turning a blind eye to others (i.e. the Roosters). For all those who say it couldn’t happen then just look at all the clubs that have been busted in recent years for significant salary cap breaches ALL of whom swore that they were abiding by the rules. Had anyone posted complaining that any of these clubs were over the cap at the time they would have been shouted down by the same narrow-minded automatons who follow the ROAR party line without ever looking at the facts or using their own brains.

    “NRL CEO Todd Greenberg is on record as saying the system needs review and former Melbourne CEO Mark Evans conducted one for head office several years ago. As yet, there haven’t been any major changes to a system that most clubs feel is open to manipulation.”

    https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/cronulla-under-investigation-over-salary-cap-breaches-20180828-p500d4.html

    The former News Corp owned Melbourne Storm are given the responsibility to “review” the salary cap system and the former NRL chief auditor now does the books for the Roosters and the Broncos are now majority owned by News Corp (i.e. FOX Sports) who is one of the main benefactors who bankroll the NRL’s billion-dollar income. Is there any wonder why the Storm, the Roosters and the Broncos are routinely favoured by the NRL and given the best draws and prime-time TV time slots year after year?
     
  2. Tigerm

    Tigerm Juniors

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    Not sure, but interesting. Did we do the wrong thing is he question to me.
     
  3. Tiger05

    Tiger05 First Grade

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    It's interesting. I don't think we did the wrong thing with Robbie but we shouldn't have done it anyway. The rorters though get away with this all the time.

    Interestingly when the NRL released TPA's the Rorters were down the bottom. They just cheat the cap.
     
  4. Shredder

    Shredder Juniors

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    Chooks obviously don't cheat the cap. If they cheated they would get caught.

    They are professional about it and are obviously able to work outside of the cap legally.

    Are they shite because they do it, or are we just stupid because we dont?

    For me personally, its option 2. I wish we had people in our club with the brains to do what the Roosters do, rather than someone who gets de-registered for trying to do something nice for a club legend.
     
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  5. Leigh Howlett

    Leigh Howlett Juniors

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    We have a salary cap that is basically a Baseball cap type salary cap, the Rorters have a Salary Sombrero, compare the 2 sizes, apology's to Bryan Fletcher a former Rorter who know's what's going on!.
     
  6. Das Hassler

    Das Hassler Juniors

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    I would love the chooks and the nrl as well (or even moreso) try and explain how all of that works....i'd even be very interested to just have one of their informed defenders come here and crunch the numbers to show how they pay everyone their market value ( cap and declared total TPA) and why the rumours are baseless. ..i'm sure they'd like to put it all to bed once and for all.

    Oh...."Latrel Mitchell "should" be on at least 450k"..??...he re signed this year as "the next Greg Inglis" and wouldn't be on less than close to a million as well. The conservative market value of just over half their squad should wipe their cap out ...a joke if it was funny
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2018
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  7. simmo05

    simmo05 Juniors

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    When you are hiring the old auditor, you are trying to find ways to circumvent the cap. There is no way in hell a club can claim anything else.
     
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  8. The Rosco

    The Rosco Juniors

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    Using the Rooster's trickery . . . Cronulla can hire the ex "banned substance testing" leading scientist from ASADA, and expect nobody to bat an eyelid.
     
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  9. Mario chalmers

    Mario chalmers Juniors

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    The article itself describes that Farah payment in the most simple of terms (but Im very surprised nobody has come up with it previously)
    "Pascoe is a good man. But he knew how to temper this by spending outrageous sums of cash on Robbie Farah to ensure he did anything but play football for the club."

    The ambassador contract was an attempt to entice Farah to leave the club not stay at the club. This is why Pascoe didn't think he had to notify the NRL. It's about the only decent argument the club has but I do wonder why they arent being more transparent about this.
    There is plenty of precedent for it in other sports

    https://www.news.com.au/sport/ameri...t/news-story/6686fd4da73f684a87a4a2b42f740195

    No salary cap in baseball mind you.
     
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  10. TheDefinitionOfMadness

    TheDefinitionOfMadness Juniors

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    I had to laugh when those figures got published. If the roosters came out and said they a couple of million in TPA's I'd accept that knowing they have a lot of high end business support

    But to say they only have $200,000 makes their adherence to the salary cap about as believable as Clive Palmer sticking to the salad bar. As pointed out above it is just impossible.

    If the NRL want a salary cap and more importantly transparency all player wages need to be published. Yes it's an invasion of privacy but sport is a business like no other.
     
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  11. Valheru

    Valheru First Grade

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    What would be the point of that? You would just refuse to believe the roosters figures unless it fits the narrative you believe to be true as you have done with TPAs

    You are then back to square one.
     
  12. TheDefinitionOfMadness

    TheDefinitionOfMadness Juniors

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    Not at all. The roosters would then have to explain how they get away paying elite players well below their fair market value. The NRL would then have to explain how they knowingly allowed this to occur.

    I always thought the roosters managed this via TPA's but that is not the case based on published figures. The roosters have not raised any concerns about them being incorrect.

    The NRL refused parra's attempts to sign folau because the contract was below fair market value. The fans have a right to know. We are all apparently - and I use that word very loosely- governed by the same rules.
     
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  13. super_coach

    super_coach Bench

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    When the NRL tried to be transparent last year with all the TPA figures, half the Juno’s in attendance burst out laughing when the Chooks figures were read out. Everyone knows they are shonky, but the NRL refuse to do anything. Let’s face if the Chooks had a few average years they would probably disappear into the sunset.

    Also on giving teams a leg up.....How can the Bronks be playing a away game on the weekend when all teams are playing in Brisbane. 7 teams get one less home game and the Bronks get a extra one. The old level playing field is like the wicket at lords
     
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