For the credibility of Origin

[_Johnsy]

I have been thinking a bit about the credibility of origin, and it has a bit. There is one thing that diminishes the credibiltiy of the centrpiece of our game. The grey area that surrounds eligibility of players.

I have searched hi and low and have been only able to find one source than names an age of a player "Under State of Origin eligibility rules, it is where the player began his first senior football when aged 16, which determines their origin status. Folau, who moved to Queensland with his family as a boy, played his initial senior football with Brisbane Norths the Melbourne Storm's feeder club."

One thing is clear, all other sources state senior game. Herein lies the issue, if you are 17 years old and play in qld, but played u/16 in NSW in a senior grade who do you play for ?

Some would say NSW, others QLD. The issue needs to be sorted out and have one clear defining rule, without the grey area.

Case in point. Greg Inglis born 15/01/1987. He attended Hunter Sports High School in 2003, and also played for Wests Newcastle that same year, not in the u/16's but U/17's, a senior game. He then moves to Norths in Brisbane and plays for the Brisbane Norths Devils colt side in 2004 when aged 17. Both states will have a bona fide claim to this player. I have confirmed this in conversation with several school staff and coaches.

ARL/NSWRL/QRL please sort this issue out re-write the rule to put a stop the the eligibility argument in SOO once and for all.

 

[Dazzat]

I agree that the laws need tightening. And the eligibility laws for Qld and NSW need to be exactly the same.

But as with all the laws in the history of the world, there will ALWAYS be grey areas. You can make laws until the cows come home (one hour later in Queensland during daylight saving) and another Inglis will appear from nowhere to blow a hole in your laws.

For that reason, I believe there will always be an element of choice involved, and that choice should be given to the player upon registration within any rugby competition after the age of 15 or 16. After that age, the players should be asked to choose their preferred state. That choice will only be enacted when there is some disagreement as to the interpretation of the law, or in the event of a 'grey area'.

 

[greg]

After conferring with my scrutineers I hereby declare Greg Inglis a New South Welshman!

 

[Dazzat]

Done. He can take Gasnier's place in the NSW team for game 2 ...

 

[icewind]

inglis wasn't playing for nsw in game one?

 

[Dave Q]

Year 1 he can play for NSW then year 2 for QLD etc etc.

Or the states can bid for him in a charity auction each year with all proceeds to the kids hospital.

 

[Dazzat]

Now we're getting somewhere ... this concept worked a treat with Indian cricket.

 

[_Johnsy]

After conferring with my scrutineers I hereby declare Greg Inglis a New South Welshman!

I'd say your scrutineers are spot on. I think the ARL should declare him eligible for NSW only. Do not pick as punishment for turning his back on his state. No intestinal fortitude, no wonder he looks good in maroon. ;-)

 

[_Johnsy]

Dazzat

Choice should never come into it. IMO it should be your first game after you turn ?? years of age, regardless if you move 2 days before that birthday from NSW and move to QLD. Then you qualify for QLD. Black and White, no grey.

 

[Dazzat]

Ralph Lettucehead has lived in Sydney since birth, and at 14-years-old has never played league but loves watching on TV. At the age of 15 (the age of Origin eligibility), he moves to Palm Beach to live with his Mum. He starts playing league at high school. His folks are divorced, so every second weekend he stays with his father who lives in the Tweed.

At the age of 16, his mother dies of a drug overdose and he moves permanently with his Dad on the Tweed and plays for the local school and competition. His Dad idolises St George and the NSW team - and so does Lettucehead. He cheers for the Blues every game.

After a couple of years, he moves back to Sydney. He plays for another year before being picked for the Under 19 NSW team.

Lettucehead then gets a gig with St George and eventually cracks first grade at 22 years of age. His natural ability see him enter the frame for State of Origin.

Despite being a St George/NSW fan all his life, and living the majority of his life in that state, because he moved to Queensland at the age of eligibility, he's forced to play for Queensland.

No thanks … you can have him.

 

[El Diablo]

the other week they were talking about Shannon Walker saying he was eligible for NSW but would play for whatever state picked him first

no idea if he'll be great but i can see Queensland pulling a swifty and picking him just so he can't play for NSW

 

[Whats Doing]

I think Dazzat is the real lettucehead as Tweed is still in NSW

 

[NthKnight]

I think Dazzat is the real lettucehead as Tweed is still in NSW

Yes and Palm beach is in QLD where "Lettuce" played his first game of Sr footy hence the conflict

BTW I agree with Daz on this point. Ultimately it should come down to the players preference because who would want a player playing for a SOO side who has no passion for the team.

 

[Dazzat]

All players after the age of 14-15 should be asked their preference (perhaps when registering for a club season) of Qld or NSW. Doing this at a young age will stop the potential auction scenario over Shannon Walker, and will ONLY be enacted in the event of conflict/grey areas or whatever you want to call the inevitable law breaker. But by all means, tighten the selection rules before Johnsy has a coronary.

 

[Spud]

The rule is where you played your first game of senior footy OR where you are born actually.

IMO you should be allowed to play for you want to (within reason, must be eligible). Folau, Inglis, Nagas, Polla-Mounter all chose who they wanted to play for so case closed for mine.

BTW, to clear something up. Melbourne did not bring Folau to QLD, he was already up here when the Storm discovered him.

 

[Pierced Soul]

i think the rules need to be sorted out, and I do believe the blues amde claim to inglis as well but he said he wanted to play for QLD. i rememebr a simialr thing in city vs country when andrew ryan was picked for city and he wasnt ahppy about it.

there needs to be a mix between a clear pathway based on where you play your first senior game and where you started playing the game. i think dazzat's example sums up the eligibility problems which exist not only at origin but international level

 

[_Johnsy]

I agree that the laws need tightening. And the eligibility laws for Qld and NSW need to be exactly the same.

But as with all the laws in the history of the world, there will ALWAYS be grey areas. You can make laws until the cows come home (one hour later in Queensland during daylight saving) and another Inglis will appear from nowhere to blow a hole in your laws.

For that reason, I believe there will always be an element of choice involved, and that choice should be given to the player upon registration within any rugby competition after the age of 15 or 16. After that age, the players should be asked to choose their preferred state. That choice will only be enacted when there is some disagreement as to the interpretation of the law, or in the event of a 'grey area'.

So you agree. Would you want someone playing for QLD if he was a NSWélshman, never played a game in QLD until he signs with the Broncs/Titans/Cowboys and decided to pledge his allegance to QLD ? What happens if a player later decides to change his allegance ?

This rule would have no grey areas at all. If the rule is say, once you turn 17 (or any age that is determined) the next game you play, that is deemed which state you play for. Regardless of what state you were born in.

The only possible complication that can come from this would be if there was a club that had its clughouse/ground split on the border. There is no such club.

All players after the age of 14-15 should be asked their preference (perhaps when registering for a club season) of Qld or NSW. Doing this at a young age will stop the potential auction scenario over Shannon Walker, and will ONLY be enacted in the event of conflict/grey areas or whatever you want to call the inevitable law breaker. But by all means, tighten the selection rules before Johnsy has a coronary.

I think you are the only one getting all worked up. I am far from having any heart issues, I'd imagine that all the "nutjob rednecks" that take the banter a bit too seriously are more at risk, but thanks for your concern.

There will be no such auction scenario with Shannon Walker, played all his footy in Kyogle, played his first senior game for Tweed Heads (A NSW club) in the QLD cup. How can he play for QLD ? By pledging his allegance. :lol: The only way an auction would take place over Shannon Walker is if QLD tried to claim him as a QLDér. Are you prempting something here Dazzat ?

 

[Dazzat]

This rule would have no grey areas at all. If the rule is say, once you turn 17 (or any age that is determined) the next game you play, that is deemed which state you play for. Regardless of what state you were born in.

I've taken time aside from playing my harmonica on the back porch, stroking the dog and talking with my cousins on telephone to answer your post. I've just installed one of them new fangled ... what you call 'em ... TV sets.

Seems you have ignored one of my posts that outlines a case study of a young man who moves to Palm Beach from the Sydney, Seems others in this thread could see some merit in it, but you've ignored it completely. I wonder why?

Have fun writing and enforcing your eligibility laws to the letter. There could be a whole new law practice on the horizon ... you know family law, criminal law, company law, Origin eligibility law ...

 

[Shorty]

Well there's definitely some grey area involved,I think perhaps if there is a possibility of falling into both categories it needs to be revised.
I think location,junior history and past locations should be taken into account.

It's interesting to note that the late Steve Rogers,was in fact,eligible to play for Queensland but Queensland did not choose him in fear of the whole concept being dumped if it happened(According to Alpha).
It puts a bit of perspective into it all.

 

[Dazzat]

Well there's definitely some grey area involved,I think perhaps if there is a possibility of falling into both categories it needs to be revised.
I think location,junior history and past locations should be taken into account.

It's interesting to note that the late Steve Rogers,was in fact,eligible to play for Queensland but Queensland did not choose him in fear of the whole concept being dumped if it happened(According to Alpha).
It puts a bit of perspective into it all.

Amazing stuff if true. I kinda remember that at the time ... I was about three years old.