Forward pack

[Forbes Creek Dragons]

Our pack on paper is one of the best in the comp, and potentially even better than the Roosters. This year Tariq and Friz played busted all year, and Jack was out. Next season the two mentioned should be back at 100% and we have unearthed Ford, plus Lawrie is rock solid and Leilua is getting better each week. JDB is probably a 50/50 chance to come back. If he’s back our forwards could look like this. 8.Lawrie 9. McInnes 10. Vaughan 11.Friz 12.Sims 13. JDB 14.Ford 15.Graham 16.Sims 17.Leilua
I would play Vaughan and Lawrie for the master and apprentice setup. Same with Graham and K.Sims so Graham can rip into Sims if he stuffs up. Ford can be a utility and replace the second rowers on occasion and Leilua can fill in at lock once the opposition runs out of steam. Its a pack that could win a comp.

 

[JohnnoMcJohnno]

It's not a bad pack, but Leilua is the only genuine off-loader, the rest run one-out in accordance with the approved MacGregor strategy and that's it. Oppositions know whats coming and as a consequence our guys get hammered/injured/fatigued and we lose.

 

[hewi]

The pack is only as good as the coach and his management of the bench and the players injuries and fatigue, in our case that’s awful.

 

[Crush]

Our pack is OK.
Halves are average.
Backs are worst in comp.
Coach is worst in comp.
Long season coming up in 2020.

 

[Forbes Creek Dragons]

Our pack is OK.
Halves are average.
Backs are worst in comp.
Coach is worst in comp.
Long season coming up in 2020.

I reckon our forwards are top 4, our halves top 8, outside backs and coach wooden spoon, depth Canterbury Cup.

 

[boardlumps62]

When do we get to know what forwards we are keeping and who will pack their bags.

 

[Forbes Creek Dragons]

When do we get to know what forwards we are keeping and who will pack their bags.

Unfortunately that’s about as exciting as 2019 gets for us. Finding out who goes and who stays.

 

[The calm one]

Our pack is OK.
Halves are average.
Backs are worst in comp.
Coach is worst in comp.
Long season coming up in 2020.

Remember what Mick Innes said at the start of this season. 13 to 6 looks good, then it goes pair shaped

 

[Belta]

Our pack is OK.
Halves are average.
Backs are worst in comp.
Coach is worst in comp.
Long season coming up in 2020.

Yup. You’ve just completed the review. Someone needs to tell Gould to F#$k off. Crush has done the review. Don’t let the door hit you on your way out.

 

[Wittenberg]

I reckon our forwards are top 4, our halves top 8, outside backs and coach wooden spoon, depth Canterbury Cup.

To be honest I think our pack is overrated. Graham, as much as you admire him, is old and worn. In many ways JDB, injuries and the Origin made him play more minutes than he was up to and I think it will show in 2020. Lawrie is no world better and Vaughan seemed well down on form this year and played less and less minutes as the year went on. Ford is a utility at this point and will need to build up to make any strong physical impact but he will develop. Kerr gained in confidence as the year went on but he is ponderous around the ruck. His defence is a weakness. Host seems to have fallen out of favour. Frizz is poorly used and constantly runs back into the ruck. Compare the Origin Frizz with the McGregor version and you see why Tyson clashes with Mary. Fittler had Tyson playing on the edges hitting their inside backs, Mary has him running back into the teeth of opposition forwards. Enough said. Tariq needs to throw off whatever injury he had because he was pretty average. JBD ? Well 50/50 regarding a return I think is overly optimistic. I cannot see him playing in the early part of the season, if at all. Luc really developed by the end of the year and is quality. Cam is class. Sims version two will probably come into the starting side. Our next level is pretty bare. Latimore, Allgood, Robson and Timm gone. Who are the back ups beside Host? Top 4 pack? Not so sure.

 

[Dragon David]

It's not a bad pack, but Leilua is the only genuine off-loader, the rest run one-out in accordance with the approved MacGregor strategy and that's it. Oppositions know whats coming and as a consequence our guys get hammered/injured/fatigued and we lose.

This is the problem. The opposition knows exactly whats coming and easy to handle us. We need the forwards to practice and practice offloads so that they are executed with precision. Another thing is that whilst we do have a good pack, it is not the toughest and so we need to develop toughness in each one of the forwards.

 

[Dragon David]

To be honest I think our pack is overrated. Graham, as much as you admire him, is old and worn. In many ways JDB, injuries and the Origin made him play more minutes than he was up to and I think it will show in 2020. Lawrie is no world better and Vaughan seemed well down on form this year and played less and less minutes as the year went on. Ford is a utility at this point and will need to build up to make any strong physical impact but he will develop. Kerr gained in confidence as the year went on but he is ponderous around the ruck. His defence is a weakness. Host seems to have fallen out of favour. Frizz is poorly used and constantly runs back into the ruck. Compare the Origin Frizz with the McGregor version and you see why Tyson clashes with Mary. Fittler had Tyson playing on the edges hitting their inside backs, Mary has him running back into the teeth of opposition forwards. Enough said. Tariq needs to throw off whatever injury he had because he was pretty average. JBD ? Well 50/50 regarding a return I think is overly optimistic. I cannot see him playing in the early part of the season, if at all. Luc really developed by the end of the year and is quality. Cam is class. Sims version two will probably come into the starting side. Our next level is pretty bare. Latimore, Allgood, Robson and Timm gone. Who are the back ups beside Host? Top 4 pack? Not so sure.

All true to me!

 

[Forbes Creek Dragons]

To be honest I think our pack is overrated. Graham, as much as you admire him, is old and worn. In many ways JDB, injuries and the Origin made him play more minutes than he was up to and I think it will show in 2020. Lawrie is no world better and Vaughan seemed well down on form this year and played less and less minutes as the year went on. Ford is a utility at this point and will need to build up to make any strong physical impact but he will develop. Kerr gained in confidence as the year went on but he is ponderous around the ruck. His defence is a weakness. Host seems to have fallen out of favour. Frizz is poorly used and constantly runs back into the ruck. Compare the Origin Frizz with the McGregor version and you see why Tyson clashes with Mary. Fittler had Tyson playing on the edges hitting their inside backs, Mary has him running back into the teeth of opposition forwards. Enough said. Tariq needs to throw off whatever injury he had because he was pretty average. JBD ? Well 50/50 regarding a return I think is overly optimistic. I cannot see him playing in the early part of the season, if at all. Luc really developed by the end of the year and is quality. Cam is class. Sims version two will probably come into the starting side. Our next level is pretty bare. Latimore, Allgood, Robson and Timm gone. Who are the back ups beside Host? Top 4 pack? Not so sure.

I rate Graham as our weakest link for sure but no team has freaks in every position, they all have at least on CC standard player or a journeyman. At the very least he won’t let us down in Defence. Look at the Raiders they have Papalii who maybe the best prop in the game, but then have players like Emre Guler and one of our discards in Lui on the bench. A team based on defence. And they are in the GF. 13.Tapine/JDB Dragons 12. Sims/Whitehead Dragons 11. Friz/Bateman Draw 10. Vaughan/Papalii Raiders 9.McInnes/Hodgson Raiders 8. Soliola/Graham Draw(both past the best but good leaders. That is just my opinion but our starting packs look even with a top 4 grand finalist to me. I could even argue a fully fit and firing Friz may be better than Bateman.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

To be honest I think our pack is overrated. Graham, as much as you admire him, is old and worn. In many ways JDB, injuries and the Origin made him play more minutes than he was up to and I think it will show in 2020. Lawrie is no world better and Vaughan seemed well down on form this year and played less and less minutes as the year went on. Ford is a utility at this point and will need to build up to make any strong physical impact but he will develop. Kerr gained in confidence as the year went on but he is ponderous around the ruck. His defence is a weakness. Host seems to have fallen out of favour. Frizz is poorly used and constantly runs back into the ruck. Compare the Origin Frizz with the McGregor version and you see why Tyson clashes with Mary. Fittler had Tyson playing on the edges hitting their inside backs, Mary has him running back into the teeth of opposition forwards. Enough said. Tariq needs to throw off whatever injury he had because he was pretty average. JBD ? Well 50/50 regarding a return I think is overly optimistic. I cannot see him playing in the early part of the season, if at all. Luc really developed by the end of the year and is quality. Cam is class. Sims version two will probably come into the starting side. Our next level is pretty bare. Latimore, Allgood, Robson and Timm gone. Who are the back ups beside Host? Top 4 pack? Not so sure.

Very Good assessment.
Reality bites.
Lawrie's and Graham's post contact metres are a worry.
Vaughn is a stand out but opposition Teams are gang tackling him and reducing his effectiveness.
Totally agree about Frizz.
Totally wasted the way he's used.
Never looks like scoring a try unlike his Origin role.
Finally a comment about JDB.
McGregor and the club have to stop focusing on this player.
The only thing that matters are players who are fit and in form at the time of match selection.
Not only has it become a convenient excuse, it displays very poor management.
JDB is a good player but he is NOT the messiah.

 

[Miller was a legend]

Very Good assessment.
Reality bites.
Lawrie's and Graham's post contact metres are a worry.
Vaughn is a stand out but opposition Teams are gang tackling him and reducing his effectiveness.
Totally agree about Frizz.
Totally wasted the way he's used.
Never looks like scoring a try unlike his Origin role.
Finally a comment about JDB.
McGregor and the club have to stop focusing on this player.
The only thing that matters are players who are fit and in form at the time of match selection.
Not only has it become a convenient excuse, it displays very poor management.
JDB is a good player but he is NOT the messiah.

He is just a very naughty boy

 

[Old Timer]

To be honest I think our pack is overrated. Graham, as much as you admire him, is old and worn. In many ways JDB, injuries and the Origin made him play more minutes than he was up to and I think it will show in 2020. Lawrie is no world better and Vaughan seemed well down on form this year and played less and less minutes as the year went on. Ford is a utility at this point and will need to build up to make any strong physical impact but he will develop. Kerr gained in confidence as the year went on but he is ponderous around the ruck. His defence is a weakness. Host seems to have fallen out of favour. Frizz is poorly used and constantly runs back into the ruck. Compare the Origin Frizz with the McGregor version and you see why Tyson clashes with Mary. Fittler had Tyson playing on the edges hitting their inside backs, Mary has him running back into the teeth of opposition forwards. Enough said. Tariq needs to throw off whatever injury he had because he was pretty average. JBD ? Well 50/50 regarding a return I think is overly optimistic. I cannot see him playing in the early part of the season, if at all. Luc really developed by the end of the year and is quality. Cam is class. Sims version two will probably come into the starting side. Our next level is pretty bare. Latimore, Allgood, Robson and Timm gone. Who are the back ups beside Host? Top 4 pack? Not so sure.

Good assessment.
Far too many supporters lulled into believing our pack is almost invincible.
A few years ago we were dominant for most of the season but that game plan was worked out by others and we never evolved past that point.
Our lack of speed, offloads and back up is alarming.
Graham is yesterdays man and I believe if he goes around again people will be very disappointed in his results as it is clearly evident that he is being dominated by bigger, faster, stronger players and in the end passion alone will not be enough to carry his old legs.
Our pack is reliable and serviceable but IMO comes up a bit short and will never achieve great heights especially under this coach.

 

[Dragon David]

Very Good assessment.
Reality bites.
Lawrie's and Graham's post contact metres are a worry.
Vaughn is a stand out but opposition Teams are gang tackling him and reducing his effectiveness.
Totally agree about Frizz.
Totally wasted the way he's used.
Never looks like scoring a try unlike his Origin role.
Finally a comment about JDB.
McGregor and the club have to stop focusing on this player.
The only thing that matters are players who are fit and in form at the time of match selection.
Not only has it become a convenient excuse, it displays very poor management.
JDB is a good player but he is NOT the messiah.

Totally agree here Dennis on all of your comments.

 

[Forbes Creek Dragons]

Good assessment.
Far too many supporters lulled into believing our pack is almost invincible.
A few years ago we were dominant for most of the season but that game plan was worked out by others and we never evolved past that point.
Our lack of speed, offloads and back up is alarming.
Graham is yesterdays man and I believe if he goes around again people will be very disappointed in his results as it is clearly evident that he is being dominated by bigger, faster, stronger players and in the end passion alone will not be enough to carry his old legs.
Our pack is reliable and serviceable but IMO comes up a bit short and will never achieve great heights especially under this coach.

I think everyone missed the point of my initial post which is that a forward pack with 4 Origin players in it should not be in wooden spoon contention. Or that McGregor is a shit coach.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

I rate Graham as our weakest link for sure but no team has freaks in every position, they all have at least on CC standard player or a journeyman. At the very least he won’t let us down in Defence. Look at the Raiders they have Papalii who maybe the best prop in the game, but then have players like Emre Guler and one of our discards in Lui on the bench. A team based on defence. And they are in the GF. 13.Tapine/JDB Dragons 12. Sims/Whitehead Dragons 11. Friz/Bateman Draw 10. Vaughan/Papalii Raiders 9.McInnes/Hodgson Raiders 8. Soliola/Graham Draw(both past the best but good leaders. That is just my opinion but our starting packs look even with a top 4 grand finalist to me. I could even argue a fully fit and firing Friz may be better than Bateman.

You make some interesting comparisons.
IMO Lui is playing phenomenal football for the Raiders and makes the Raiders' prop rotation very potent.
Whatever Stuart is doing, he is getting the best out of him for sure.
I can't agree that Vaughn and Papalii are on the same level. Papali is probably the best prop in the world now and his transition from back row to prop has been seamless.
Hodgson is a class above McInnes for lots of reasons and Soliola is a much more damaging runner than Graham.
Bateman/Frizz - hmmmm - On this years form, Bateman is streets ahead.
Their whole pack has a level of mongrel that we just don't have.
I think our pack peaked two years ago and has been poorly coached together with our bench rotation.

 

[Forbes Creek Dragons]

You make some interesting comparisons.
IMO Lui is playing phenomenal football for the Raiders and makes the Raiders' prop rotation very potent.
Whatever Stuart is doing, he is getting the best out of him for sure.
I can't agree that Vaughn and Papalii are on the same level. Papali is probably the best prop in the world now and his transition from back row to prop has been seamless.
Hodgson is a class above McInnes for lots of reasons and Soliola is a much more damaging runner than Graham.
Bateman/Frizz - hmmmm - On this years form, Bateman is streets ahead.
Their whole pack has a level of mongrel that we just don't have.
I think our pack peaked two years ago and has been poorly coached together with our bench rotation.

I’m not going on current form more on potential and at Origin level Vaughan probably had a better series than big Papa so goes to show what having a few guns around you and a decent coach does. Hodgson is outstanding and the main reason Canberra are not $5.00 outsiders, best 9 in the game on current form. McInnes is only 25 odd though so has some improvement left in him.