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Forwards obersvation and Sandow's defense

Sonic Star

Juniors
Messages
1,469
Against Melbourne I thought we fielded our strongest ever line up in regards to our forwards and balance this season.
It was the strongest we could field defensively and same in offence. Don't think we could have fielded a stronger one with players that were currently available.

Stuart was doing a great job at prop but he could do the same at second row. We needed a bigger player to partner up with Roy to help him out better and we had a hole in our back row as well which is now plugged up with Crocker coming to the club.

Astoasi made 169 metres against the storm off 17 runs and only had to make 25 tackles which is a lot less considering the last 4 or 5 weeks or so when he was making over 35 to 44 tackles per game.

Geddes did a lot of the grunt work up the middle and made 31 tackles with no misses and made 99 metres. It sure did have an effect on Roys game IMO.

Stuart was his reliable self, as been noted by many he plays very similar at either prop or second row.
He made 101 metres with 33 tackles and no misses.

Crocker made 104 metres and 32 tackles with 3 misses.

Faalago made 119 metres but off 17 runs but still it's acceptable with 25 tackles and no misses.

The catalyst of the forwards doing so well was Wing starting at hooker. It really helped them with their go forward and got them off on the right foot.

Pettybourne and Kidwell are both better suited on the bench. Pettybourne is our strike weapon on the bench. Our impact player.
J Lowe needs to get more stuck in to things in attack. Defensive wise he's great. Just wish he ran the ball up harder and helped out more in that regard.

Issac Luke needs to lift his form. It hasn't been the best this season. I hope he can get it together because he's just a good player when he's on song.

If we are to keep Geddes and if he can keep improving his form through out the season he would be a handy player to have as there really isn't any decent props left on the market. He would bring up 10 years service and I'm pretty sure there is salary cap concession for those types of players.

If you're to look at things for next season.
Taylor could replace either Geddes or Lowe next season. Taylor would offer better go forward and impact off the bench compared to any prop we have now.
Not sure if the club will want to retain Greenfield and we are trying to snare Reece Williams from the Sharks who would be a handy replacement for Faalago.
Tyrell would be a handy replacement for Kidwell next season.

Possible line up?

8.Geddes/J Lowe - depends if we keep one or we might no keep either. Both are off contract.
9.Wing
10.Asotasi
11.Stuart
12.Williams
13.Crocker

14.Luke
15.Taylor
16.Pettybourne
17. would be a fight between Tyrell, Mcpherson and B Lowe

but coming back to this season

I believe if these forwards can continue on this form or even go better than you will see the best of Sandow.

We need one or two of our forwards to protect Sandow in defense.

This is what Manly does with Orford. Orford has a little work rate in defense.

Look at the everage Tackles Orford makes each season.

2009 - 13.6 per game
2008 - 12.1 per game
2007 - 13.9 per game
2006 - 13.7 per game

Some say Orford is a solid defending half back but it's a myth and not true.

Compare it to Sandow who averages 20 tackles per game.

We need to bring this down by at least 5 or 6 less per game.
 

Dogmatix

Juniors
Messages
535
It would be nice if Sandow could make less tackles. But the truth is he is the Bradman of missed tacklers. He is on 92 missed tackles and could be bringing up a century against Newcastle. The next worst player for missed tackles is on 59 missed tackles. If you are that bad and wear bright orange boots they will target you big time

Sandow's only hope is to make his attack so good that you can wear his bad defence. So far this season he has created 3 tries and 2 of those were in Rd 1. The last try he created was way back against the Sharks. 3 tries created in 12 games is poor even if your forwards have been failing in their job. I agree the forwards have been poor and JT did not help when he tried selecting Simpson from Rd 6 onwards that left the team a forward down

Bottom line is Sandow does not run enough and in 2009 he has not used his kicking game as well as in 2008. Needs to improve in both areas

Your No 7 should be winning man of the match several times a season. When was the last time Sandow was even close to man of the match?

I would like to see this kid succeed as he showed promise in 2008. But if you are in poor form you should get dropped. Even Bradman got dropped once
 

Dogmatix

Juniors
Messages
535
An alternative to dropping Sandow would be to dump JT. JT might even be the major problem. He seems to take forever to work out his best team apart from anything else (the forward pack against Melbourne was better but why didn't we have that sort of team several games earlier?)

Sandow is also doing some similar things in 2009 to what Jeremy Smith did in 2007-08. Makes me think the coach JT might be behind it all
 

Sonic Star

Juniors
Messages
1,469
Sandow pretty much makes more tackles than any other half back though with the exception of one or two who are about equal

But his ineffective tackles are actually less than other halves like Darren Lockyer, Stacey Jones, Travis Burns, Brett Kimmorley, John Morris and Joel Moon to name some.

It's simple mathematics. Less tackles he has to make the less he will miss.

He has been playing behind a badly beaten forward pack and a team who lacks possesion most times and when we do have the ball it's usually up the other end of the field.

Our forwards need to step up and the rest will follow.
 

coach

Guest
Messages
1,431
Sonic, interesting observations you have made.

I don't care who we have as half next season it wont matter much if our forwards are not up to scratch.

While the stats from the Storm game look good for some players that is just one game. Over the season so far our forward play has been poor.

We have major problems in the front row and even with the signing of Taylor I don't expect huge improvement. Geddes is finished as NRL player or at least as a regular starter. Lowe is no better then a #4 prop who can fill in for a handfull of games and no more. Asotasi is no where near the player he was 2 years ago. I really have to ask the question, does he want to be at Souths? While Taylor shows a lot of potential he is yet to live up to it. Questions are asked about his fitness and attitude. Yes he is young and hopefully he will live up to the potential he shows. But next year I wouldn't be counting too much on him. Issac Luke has been a huge dissapointment this season. Not sure what his problem is.

We are also a bit light on in the backrow. Fa'alogo is leaving and I would hope the club unloads Kidwell, who is way past his best. Stuart is the type of player who will not lose you a game, but at the sametime will not win you a game. Crocker brings experience and toughness to the team. Outside of him I don't see a whole lot.

Sandow has problems with hsi defense. Everyone knows it and they take full advantage of it. Its an area of his game that most likely wil never be great, but it can be worked on.

I shouldn't forget that there has been plenty of talk that Wing will leave. Not ssure if its true or not. If it is then we are in serious trouble.
 

NGR

Juniors
Messages
1,499
every time geddes is coming off contract he steps up 2 gears.. im sick of his antics.. keep j.Lowe or get that warrior just released tuamivae?
 

Dogmatix

Juniors
Messages
535
Here are the stats for average tackles made per game by some halves this season

Jeff Robson 27.6
John Morris 25.5
Travis Burns 23.8
Scott Porter 22.7
Brett Kimmorley 21.7
Brett Seymour 21.5
Brett Finch 21.1
Copper Cronk 20.3
Chris Sandow 19.7
Mitchell Pearce 19.5
Peter Wallace 19.4
Ben Rogers 19.3
Stacey Jones 19
John Sutton 18.5
Terry Campese 17.7
Jonathan Thurston 16.5
Darren Lockyer 16.3
Jarrod Mullen 16.2

This list includes both No 6 and No 7. Looking at the list it does not look like Sandow is being found any more than similar halves. If you look at average missed tackles then Sandow is on 7.7 and 2nd worst is 4.8. Opposition teams would be mad not to target Sandow
 
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