The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Pneuma]

That was my point tbh.
I can't see Tasmanians knocking back this federal funding to finally get their own team that they have been begging for for decades.
In fact, I think this will be a more popular decision than not. A vocal minority won't stop it, and I truly don't believe the 70% poll against this that has been claimed in the media. Sadly.

A poll asking you whether you think it makes sense to spend nearly a billion on a stadium will get a no answer. The wild card is the greens and the inner city elites and opposition from the North and North west. They hate this stadium and we’ve seen a few developments unravel in recent years through groundswells of opposition. Interesting days ahead but I think you overestimate how popular a Tassie team will be with this condition. You guys don’t quite appreciate what it’s like to live in a state with three strong regions and a history of stopping unpopular or controversial developments. It might be plain sailing but don’t be surprised if it isn’t. On a broader level I do wonder if this is a trade off for the afl for the government funding for a png team. We will see.

 

[The Great Dane]

That was my point tbh.
I can't see Tasmanians knocking back this federal funding to finally get their own team that they have been begging for for decades.
In fact, I think this will be a more popular decision than not. A vocal minority won't stop it, and I truly don't believe the 70% poll against this that has been claimed in the media. Sadly.

I can totally believe that 70% of Tasmanians see the new stadium as an unnecessary and expensive luxury that they'd rather not pay for.

However I can also believe that 90%+ of them are supportive of getting their own AFL team, and that they'll begrudgingly accept the cost of the stadium if it means they get their team.

 

[Pneuma]

As Albanese backs an AFL stadium for Hobart, Tasmanians are living in tents

Tasmania’s new AFL stadium has become a symbol of government inaction on the poverty and homelessness that blight Australia’s smallest state

www.brisbanetimes.com.au

A good summary of a lot of sentiment here.

 

[Wb1234]

I'm not having a go at you as it's obscure local politics that I wouldn't expect you to be versed in, but you haven't got the sightless clue what you're talking about.

The way things have worked in Canberra more or less since self governance in 89 is the ACT government pays the AIS (Australian Sports Commission owned, i.e. federal body) to lease their facilities, namely Bruce Stadium and the AIS Arena among others.

That worked out alright for a while until priorities changed at the national level and federal governments starting cutting the Sports Commission's funding and support for the AIS after the 2000 Olympics. After that point maintaining and upgrading the AIS wasn't considered to be in the national interest, so the facilities have effectively been left to rot by the Commonwealth.

So what has happened for the last roughly 15 years is the Sports Commission has, for the most part, refused to pay for maintenance or upgrades of the facilities, saying that it wasn't a priority and that the ACT could pay for it themselves if they insisted the maintenance and upgrades happen, whilst also refusing to sell the facilities to the ACT.

That has effectively left the ACT in the position of being forced to pay for the maintenance and necessary upgrades of facilities that they are leasing from the AIS, whilst also making it incredibly difficult to build our own facilities elsewhere because we've been forced to invest hundreds of millions of dollars into facilities we don't own over the course of 30 years, which we can't now recoup some of the losses from through selling them because we don't own them.

That brings us to today, where the Albanese government has shown an interest in reinvesting into the AIS, and the arena and stadium by extension, but is looking for local support for the project. The local support is there for the upgrades to the facilities, because we desperately need them, but the ACT government doesn't want to be locked into the same catch 22 as before where we're expected to fund the maintenance of culturally significant facilities that we don't own simply because there's a change of priorities at the federal level.

That's what's happening, the ACT's concerns are totally reasonable, and they'd be mugs to financially support upgrades to Bruce unless it's placed into their ownership or a timeline to the ACT taking over ownership in the future is created.

You said before the issue was barr doesn’t support spending money on rectangular grounds

this is totally different argument now saying they will spend money under the right conditions

anyway like I said just pick some land nearby then

if the ais is feds owned and albo on herald of the feds wants to invest me thinks you are just exaggerating

 

[Jamberoo]

FitzSimons will applaud the Fed Govt decision to help finance the project.It is after all his 2nd fave code and he wants to get to the AFL G/F breakfast so as to help promote his book on the Rise and Fall of the 13 man game.
How the stadium can be justified with rents skyrocketing due to demand, people living out of cars and caravans and worse to come, is beyond any sort of rational thought.

There are way more homeless people in Sydney. Should they never build any new stadia there? There is no simple solution to the current, nationwide house crisis. Personally, I would not have spent $368 billions on submarines and defence, but even If they didn’t, I doubt that $369b would have solved our housing crisis. They are separate issues. Not mutually exclusive.

 

[Phil McGrawhan]

A poll asking you whether you think it makes sense to spend nearly a billion on a stadium will get a no answer. The wild card is the greens and the inner city elites and opposition from the North and North west. They hate this stadium and we’ve seen a few developments unravel in recent years through groundswells of opposition. Interesting days ahead but I think you overestimate how popular a Tassie team will be with this condition. You guys don’t quite appreciate what it’s like to live in a state with three strong regions and a history of stopping unpopular or controversial developments. It might be plain sailing but don’t be surprised if it isn’t. On a broader level I do wonder if this is a trade off for the afl for the government funding for a png team. We will see.

I’ve read that’s there’s a suggestion that the trade off is the AFL now is very pro Yes for the Voice.
wouldn’t doubt it as they have a long history of dodgy deals with Govts .

 

[The Great Dane]

You said before the issue was barr doesn’t support spending money on rectangular grounds

That's an issue, not the issue.

It's blatantly obvious that Barr would personally prefer to invest in oval infrastructure over rectangular, but as things stand he isn't in a position to pull an oval off and would lose face if he refused to back a federally funded rectangular stadium.

this is totally different argument now saying they will spend money under the right conditions

He'll probably try to avoid it, just like governments and politicians try to avoid spending money on things they don't personally support all the time, but he'll have no choice under certain conditions.

It's all about putting him into a position that forces his hand.

anyway like I said just pick some land nearby then

if the ais is feds owned and albo on herald of the feds wants to invest me thinks you are just exaggerating

Albo and the Feds have only shown an interest in investing in a renewal of the AIS, not in helping fund a stadium in Canberra in of itself.

What the AIS, ACT politicians, and stakeholders in Canberra are trying to do is come to an agreement to put forward a proposal to make a new stadium be part of the AIS renewal, which the Albanese government has shown they're open to.

In other words federal funding for a stadium in Canberra outside of the AIS precinct isn't on the table currently, and as I said before, rightly or wrongly, the ACT isn't currently in a position to build one without federal support.

Barr is also tentatively supportive of a rebuild of Bruce as opposed to other options as well. I could only speculate as to exactly why that is, but part of it is definitely because it would be cheaper and more likely to attract federal support than the other options on the table.

 

[taipan]

There are way more homeless people in Sydney. Should they never build any new stadia there? There is no simple solution to the current, nationwide house crisis. Personally, I would not have spent $368 billions on submarines and defence, but even If they didn’t, I doubt that $369b would have solved our housing crisis. They are separate issues. Not mutually exclusive.

My point is the Government and people in general are finding it tough ATM with inflation and our country's huge debt.I am fully aware of the homelessness in Sydney BTW, I see it .
The Fed.Treasurer stated it would be a fair budget ,but also saying money due to the huge debt has to be reigned in.
If a city like Hobart with 200,000( 1/25 the size of Sydney) is able to secure all this Govt funding, something stinks in the land of Denmark. You'd swear at times the AFL was elected by the people, the influence they have.
I accept (unhappily) no more money will be spent on Sydney stadiums because the former State Govt says we have more important issues and less money in the kitty, as does the new Govt. Govts lie it's in their DNA.
Explain to me why Tasmania is exempt from monetary belt tightening , or is it just another bit of pork barrelling?

I am defence minded as I believe there is going to be a war(no one will win) over Taiwan.Too much sabre rattling going on now.

That being so you allocate $1-2bn to homelessness that does make an impact.Of course that means multi storey public units not blocks of land with houses.

 

[Pneuma]

My point is the Government and people in general are finding it tough ATM with inflation and our country's huge debt.I am fully aware of the homelessness in Sydney BTW, I see it .
The Fed.Treasurer stated it would be a fair budget ,but also saying money due to the huge debt has to be reigned in.
If a city like Hobart with 200,000( 1/25 the size of Sydney0 is able to secure all this Govt funding, something stinks in the land of Denmark. Yours swear at times the AFL was elected by the people.
I accept (unhappily) no more money will be spent on Sydney stadiums because the former State Govt says we have more important issues and less money in the kitty, as does the new Govt.
Explain to me why Tasmania is exempt from monetary belt tightening , or is it just another bit of pork barrelling?

There are no votes for labor in the federal funding for the stadium here. If anything it will move some voters further green. Unless it’s part of a broader infrastructure agenda we’ll see in this budget or unless it’s a trade off to appease the afl over possible funding of a png team I see no logic in this at all.

 

[docbrown]

I can totally believe that 70% of Tasmanians see the new stadium as an unnecessary and expensive luxury that they'd rather not pay for.

However I can also believe that 90%+ of them are supportive of getting their own AFL team, and that they'll begrudgingly accept the cost of the stadium if it means they get their team.

It will be interesting to see what will happen at the next election because everything that has a future funding shortfall (education, health et al.) will be easily blamed on the bipartisan white elephant stadium.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Tasmanian independent and minor party vote rises.

 

[Pneuma]

It will be interesting to see what will happen at the next election because everything that has a future funding shortfall (education, health et al.) will be easily blamed on the bipartisan white elephant stadium.

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Tasmanian independent and minor party vote rises.

Agree with that. It should be noted that local labor, and fed Libs from the North said no as well but I reckon this shemozzle will move votes even further from the major parties.

 

[docbrown]

There are way more homeless people in Sydney. Should they never build any new stadia there? There is no simple solution to the current, nationwide house crisis. Personally, I would not have spent $368 billions on submarines and defence, but even If they didn’t, I doubt that $369b would have solved our housing crisis. They are separate issues. Not mutually exclusive.

They are indeed seperate issues. The questions though are about priorities and who really ends up paying for things in the end? Whenever you run up state or national debt to pay for things now, it’s inevitably the next working generation that pays for it. You’re saddling that responsibility onto children that haven’t even been born. That’s not to say all debt is bad either. We just don’t know how to save in the good times to prepare for the bad times, so debts just keep piling up.

I know it’s not about subs specifically and I’m not a massive fan of scrolling articles, but this article from the ABC is good at showing this question of spending priorities.

This square is the average Australian salary – see how it compares to the size of planned tax cuts

The stage 3 tax cuts are too big to fit on a single screen. We had to get creative to put them into perspective.

www.abc.net.au

 

[docbrown]

Agree with that. It should be noted that local labor, and fed Libs from the North said no as well but I reckon this shemozzle will move votes even further from the major parties.

Whenever politicians do that it’s because they know the damage that‘s going to come and are trying to minimise it. They’re probably hoping that both Labor and Liberal get hurt equally. But it seems like fertile ground for independents to use for years to come.

They should just name the team the Hobart White Elephants now.

 

[Vee]

They are indeed seperate issues. The questions though are about priorities and who really ends up paying for things in the end? Whenever you run up state or national debt to pay for things now, it’s inevitably the next working generation that pays for it. You’re saddling that responsibility onto children that haven’t even been born. That’s not to say all debt is bad either. We just don’t know how to save in the good times to prepare for the bad times, so debts just keep piling up.

I know it’s not about subs specifically and I’m not a massive fan of scrolling articles, but this article from the ABC is good at showing this question of spending priorities.

This square is the average Australian salary – see how it compares to the size of planned tax cuts

The stage 3 tax cuts are too big to fit on a single screen. We had to get creative to put them into perspective.

www.abc.net.au

I'm one of the beneficiaries of Stage 3 and I think it's madness.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I'm one of the beneficiaries of Stage 3 and I think it's madness.

Same here. For the paltry amount I’d save I’d much rather see it spent elsewhere

 

[docbrown]

I'm one of the beneficiaries of Stage 3 and I think it's madness.

Same. I actually can’t believe it’s still going ahead given the massive recession we’re heading into.

 

[Babyface O'reilly]

Same. I actually can’t believe it’s still going ahead given the massive recession we’re heading into.

I still don’t reckon it’ll happen. Labor’s paranoid about the ‘breaking promises’ narrative that will inevitably play out in the media. The cuts aren’t due for a while and at some point the electorate won’t give a shit about the broken promise despite the media shoving it in their faces.

 

[taste2taste]

With Albo tipping in 240m to build an AFL stadium in Tasmania is Peter Fitzsimmons going to campaign to have that stopped ??

 

[Billythekid]

Same. I actually can’t believe it’s still going ahead given the massive recession we’re heading into.

I still think Labor are just waiting until they have enough ammunition to be comfortable saying this is a bad idea we can't afford and we're going to walk back our promise because it's the right thing to do.

Also like others in this thread my wife and I would benefit greatly from these tax cuts but I don't want to live in a society where we head down a route like the US where it starts impacting us elsewhere (healthcare, education, social services, infrastructure etc).

With Albo tipping in 240m to build an AFL stadium in Tasmania is Peter Fitzsimmons going to campaign to have that stopped ??

It's staggering how different the response has been. The stadiums in NSW were constantly complained about all across the media to the point where even at work you would hear people discussing/complaining about the stadiums. This deal seems to just by flying under the radar for the most part.

 

[Wb1234]

I still think Labor are just waiting until they have enough ammunition to be comfortable saying this is a bad idea we can't afford and we're going to walk back our promise because it's the right thing to do.

Also like others in this thread my wife and I would benefit greatly from these tax cuts but I don't want to live in a society where we head down a route like the US where it starts impacting us elsewhere (healthcare, education, social services, infrastructure etc).

It's staggering how different the response has been. The stadiums in NSW were constantly complained about all across the media to the point where even at work you would hear people discussing/complaining about the stadiums. This deal seems to just by flying under the radar for the most part.

It’s the afl what did you expect