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The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

ReddFelon

Juniors
Messages
1,485
How can the RFU Premiership be more prestigious than the NRL when its attendances are less than 15k and it gets flogged in the TV ratings by the English Super League?
Rather than look at wikipedia, try actual reporting.


"Combined weekend audience of 792,000" also the Premiership Rugby salary cap was reduced in response to covid, it is typically 7 million pounds + any Test players receive bonus payments outside the cap.

vs

"the average audience for 2021 being the highest in the last six years sitting at over 150,000."

Sky sports broadcast three games a week for a total average of 450,000.

Also 2019 Super League attendance average was 8,441. (Last pre-covid season).


In the last season pre-Covid pandemic, the LNR Top 14 averaged 14,624 per match to the NRL's 15,804. The highest regular season attendance was 43,809 while the grand final was 79,786.

Champions Cup averages that same year were 15,228.

So aside from being wrong about everything, your understanding of prestige, I have no idea what your point about PNG was meant to be? They're not a powerful marketplace in comparison to Europe.

But to keep this about stadiums, some European clubs have relatively low attendances because they own their purpose built smaller stadiums which allows them to avoid paying massive rents, which is also why none of them are at any risk of financial collapse.
 
Messages
7,150
Rather than look at wikipedia, try actual reporting.


"Combined weekend audience of 792,000" also the Premiership Rugby salary cap was reduced in response to covid, it is typically 7 million pounds + any Test players receive bonus payments outside the cap.

vs

"the average audience for 2021 being the highest in the last six years sitting at over 150,000."

Sky sports broadcast three games a week for a total average of 450,000.

Also 2019 Super League attendance average was 8,441. (Last pre-covid season).


In the last season pre-Covid pandemic, the LNR Top 14 averaged 14,624 per match to the NRL's 15,804. The highest regular season attendance was 43,809 while the grand final was 79,786.

Champions Cup averages that same year were 15,228.

So aside from being wrong about everything, your understanding of prestige, I have no idea what your point about PNG was meant to be? They're not a powerful marketplace in comparison to Europe.

But to keep this about stadiums, some European clubs have relatively low attendances because they own their purpose built smaller stadiums which allows them to avoid paying massive rents, which is also why none of them are at any risk of financial collapse.

This is straight from the Exeter onionball site that you just cited:

"The average match audience is now 119,000, up 38% on last season"

The "792k" viewing figure included the total cumulative viewers for their weekly highlights show and three games. ..

Why you put that up, God knows, but it confirmed my suspicion that you're an onionball troll trying to deceive everyone on here into thinking ruggers is bigger than it really is. You intentionally left out the average viewing audience for each RFU Premiership onionball game because it was more than 30k lower than the ESL's 150k average, which your second link confirmed.

Thank you for confirming that the English Super League is kicking the RFU Premiership's arse in the TV ratings!

Don't take my word for it. Go read the article again and see for yourself.

The weekly total audience for the ESL is 450K, compared to a poultry 358k for the RFU Premiership. The Exeter onionball article confirmed it!

"The weekend average live audience is now 358,000, which is 40% up on last year"


So you confirm that the NRL has a higher average attendance than the French onionball league, yet you think this means the latter has more prestige?

NRL matches on Foxtel average 233k per game.

http://www.footyindustry.com/?page_id=49301

NRL 233k average per game over 8 games (Foxtel Only)
ESL 150k+ average per game over 3 games (Sky Sports)
RFU Premiership 119k average per game over 3 games (BT Sport)

I don't know about you, but I think the NRL wins this hands down. Its average (per game) over 8 games is almost twice as high as RFU Premiership, which only covers three games. Three of those NRL games are simulcast on Ch9. It's harder to maintain an average over 8 games than 3. The fact NRL is doing this in a country that has just 25m people, making it half the size of England, is remarkable.
 
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mongoose

First Grade
Messages
9,488
A Perth team carving out 3rd/4th place among the Eagles, Dockers and Force is fine. Also, no the NRL is not the largest or most prestigious competition in club rugby. The Heineken Champions Cup is, with it's average salary being nearly double that of the NRL, as well as 24 teams and broadcast world wide.

In fact I'd go further on the prestige, the RFU Premiership, LNR Top 14, URC and NZ Super Rugby would all be considered far more prestigious, and in the case of the first two fare more financially powerful, in their respective markets.

Die hards need to stop pretending that the NRL carries any major presence outside Australia and the North of England. It's a great game, but it's also a small game and there's no shame in that. The shame is in the small minds that operate it.

But this is a stadium chat, I would love it if Perth getting a team meant upgrades to HBF Park so that both Force and NRL Perth get a top tier rectangular stadium.

Also it's clear you haven't lived in Perth or New Zealand, the Eagles might be massive, but they do not attract the cult like following that the All Blacks do. Half of Perth despise the Eagles, ergo Dockers and other club fans. Plus the Rugby, Soccer and Basketball crowds who tend to hate them as well.
Depends what you mean by prestigious. I think the NRL still has larger crowd average and broadcast deal than any of RFU Premiership, LNR Top 14, URC and NZ Super Rugby.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,863
From 1990 to 2011 the All Blacks were quite famously unable to win a World Cup. There was also the stretch between 1997 to 2002 where they lost every Bledisloe Cup to Australia and of course the 2007 World Cup where they dropped out in the quarter finals.
So for sometime they were only the second or third best team in the world... Yeah they were real battlers those All Blacks lol.
The All Blacks aren't just a team, they're like the Indian Cricket Team or the English soccer team, they're a borderline religious movement in their home country that is deeply tied into their identity as a people. You've got more chance convincing Canada to stop watching hockey than you do getting the Kiwis to abandon the All Blacks.
People said the same thing about the Wallabies and look how that turned out. . .

Baseball in the US, CFL in Canada, soccer in Mexico, rugby pre-1880s in the UK etc, etc, all were held up as untouchable institutions, yet all of them have struggled to varying degrees once they were actually challenged by serious competition with desirable products.

The AB's have never had a serious competitor in the NZ market. Simply changing that fact alone would have a seismic impact on the NZ sports market that would inevitably impact the AB's and RU in some way.

Now in saying that, I highly doubt that the NRL is willing to do what it would take to be that competitor, but they could be if they really wanted to be.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
14,069
So the Sydney FC are more associated with this new stadium than the Roosters or any other NRL club.
Is this a snap shot of how the NRL clubs have managed to stay mediocre while all other major sports clubs have thrived in their big cities?
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
5,863
ahhhhh

If you're paying to watch a midgets game in canberra you're a fool
Normally it's easy to prove when an event has been papered, and aside from local juniors getting free tickets (which every sport does in the ACT) I don't see GWS handing out a ton of freebies in Canberra.

Just under half GWS's 30k members come from Canberra and they don't give those out for free on the regular. So let's assume somewhere between 70-80% of their local members show up per game, plus a few thousand in single ticket sales per game, and they're easily averaging between 10-12k a year at Manuka.
 

ReddFelon

Juniors
Messages
1,485
This is straight from the Exeter onionball site that you just cited:

"The average match audience is now 119,000, up 38% on last season"

The "792k" viewing figure included the total cumulative viewers for their weekly highlights show and three games. ..

Why you put that up, God knows, but it confirmed my suspicion that you're an onionball troll trying to deceive everyone on here into thinking ruggers is bigger than it really is. You intentionally left out the average viewing audience for each RFU Premiership onionball game because it was more than 30k lower than the ESL's 150k average, which your second link confirmed.

Thank you for confirming that the English Super League is kicking the RFU Premiership's arse in the TV ratings!

Don't take my word for it. Go read the article again and see for yourself.

The weekly total audience for the ESL is 450K, compared to a poultry 358k for the RFU Premiership. The Exeter onionball article confirmed it!

"The weekend average live audience is now 358,000, which is 40% up on last year"


So you confirm that the NRL has a higher average attendance than the French onionball league, yet you think this means the latter has more prestige?

NRL matches on Foxtel average 233k per game.

http://www.footyindustry.com/?page_id=49301

NRL 233k average per game over 8 games (Foxtel Only)
ESL 150k+ average per game over 3 games (Sky Sports)
RFU Premiership 119k average per game over 3 games (BT Sport)

I don't know about you, but I think the NRL wins this hands down. Its average (per game) over 8 games is almost twice as high as RFU Premiership, which only covers three games. Three of those NRL games are simulcast on Ch9. It's harder to maintain an average over 8 games than 3. The fact NRL is doing this in a country that has just 25m people, making it half the size of England, is remarkable.

They get paid based on cumulative audience, ergo using the weekly cumulative rating. This is because one is through BT and the other through ITV which are two separate entities and in turn two separate broadcast deals. Derrrrrp.

Also prestige; value within its market. Aside from your great example of PNG, lel, who other than Australia/NZ watches the NRL?

But yes "onionball troll", I've never covered up that I enjoy rugby. Also your insults are shit, just like your attempt at hiding that you're not just an alternate account for Stallion.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
52,908
England ru domestic tv deal is only worth $70mill a year compared to the nrls up and coming $400million A year. No competition from the elbow patch boys.
 

Bulldog2020

Juniors
Messages
61
So the Sydney FC are more associated with this new stadium than the Roosters or any other NRL club.
Is this a snap shot of how the NRL clubs have managed to stay mediocre while all other major sports clubs have thrived in their big cities?
The Roosters centre of excellence will be built within the actual stadium. So it is easy to argue they are the main Tennant.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
52,908
So the Sydney FC are more associated with this new stadium than the Roosters or any other NRL club.
Is this a snap shot of how the NRL clubs have managed to stay mediocre while all other major sports clubs have thrived in their big cities?
No, just that some businesses are much better at marketing than others.
 

T-Boon

Coach
Messages
14,069
That site is largely to get fans excited and buy memberships for next season. I like what they are doing, NRL clubs should take note.
The NRL should step in and take control.
The only time memberships grew at a good rate was when the NRL took total control due to the clubs incompetence. They NRL handed it back to them and they started phoning it in again immediately.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
52,908
The NRL should step in and take control.
The only time memberships grew at a good rate was when the NRL took total control due to the clubs incompetence. They NRL handed it back to them and they started phoning it in again immediately.
totally agree. The NRL was naïve to give the clubs a $5million a year grant increase and expect them to actually use it to grow their business rather than fritter it away paying out sacked coaches and buying shiny dumb bells etc!
When Smith took control of memberships and centralised the marketing at NRLHQ there was a massive uptake. Since handing it back to clubs the growth has slowed right down to the point the NRL now seems embarrassed by it and has stopped reporting membership numbers lol.

the only 2 good initiatives I've seen in recent years in Eels offering free kids GA memberships with every adult one and Storm offering 4 game memberships to every registered amateur player in Victoria. Other than that I don't see any real efforts to fill stadiums and build fanbases.
 
Messages
7,150
They get paid based on cumulative audience, ergo using the weekly cumulative rating. This is because one is through BT and the other through ITV which are two separate entities and in turn two separate broadcast deals. Derrrrrp.

Also prestige; value within its market. Aside from your great example of PNG, lel, who other than Australia/NZ watches the NRL?

But yes "onionball troll", I've never covered up that I enjoy rugby. Also your insults are shit, just like your attempt at hiding that you're not just an alternate account for Stallion.
Mate, you're making no sense.

Using the data you supplied, the RFU Premiership has little value in its own country, whereas the NRL in twice as popular.

The RFUP only has three matches broadcast per round, plus a crappy highlights show that draws almost four times as many viewers, FFS!

If it's as prestigious as you're trying to make out then why aren't the networks willing to broadcast more than three games a week and why do people prefer to watch the f**ken highlights?

I never even heard of the RFUP until you brought it up!

Why aren't Optus Sport and the other streaming networks biting at the bit to pick up the broadcast rights for this shit onionball competition if it's more prestigious than the NRL?

Optus pays $100m a year for pommy soccer because it is prestigious.

The NRL has every f**king match broadcast on Foxtel, with three simulcast on FTA, and, it draws twice as many viewers in a country half the size. I think that's proof enough that it's the more prestigious competition. I don't know how many people watch the NRL around the world, but it sure is more popular in its home market than your crappy soap dodger onionball that's played in front of a few buttys and Staffordshire Bull Terriers.

Stallion?

Wasn't he the bloke who reckoned there should be more Sydney clubs in the NRL?

I reckon there should be fewer Sydney clubs.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
52,908
The NRL has every f**king match broadcast on Foxtel, with three simulcast on FTA, and, it draws twice as many viewers in a country half the size. I think that's proof enough that it's the more prestigious competition. I don't know how many people watch the NRL around the world, but it sure is more popular in its home market than your crappy soap dodger onionball that's played in front of a few buttys and Staffordshire Bull Terriers.
There's no doubting NRL is the richest and in some ways most prestigious domestic Rugby (sic) comp in the world. Its a shame the crowds dont reflect this more (Broncos aside) NRL crowd avg's are barely greater than these second rate ruggers comps you speak of.

Mind you NRL has the advantage of not trying to compete with a behemoth like EPL. Imagine NRL in AFL cities and thats what any sport is up against times ten in UK and most European cities.

NRL chiefs have been banking on new stadia significantly boosting crowds for years now, we are getting close to a time where we will see, once covid buggers off, if they do longitudinally or not. If not we might need to go back to the drawing board!
 
Messages
7,150
There's no doubting NRL is the richest and in some ways most prestigious domestic Rugby (sic) comp in the world. Its a shame the crowds dont reflect this more (Broncos aside) NRL crowd avg's are barely greater than these second rate ruggers comps you speak of.

Mind you NRL has the advantage of not trying to compete with a behemoth like EPL. Imagine NRL in AFL cities and thats what any sport is up against times ten in UK and most European cities.

NRL chiefs have been banking on new stadia significantly boosting crowds for years now, we are getting close to a time where we will see, once covid buggers off, if they do longitudinally or not. If not we might need to go back to the drawing board!
It speaks volumes that state and federal governments in Australia spend millions on world class stadia for rugby league clubs, whereas the English onionball clubs play out of dilapidated dumps that make Dolphin Oval look like the Taj Mahal. I think that proves which league is more prestigious!

Stadia wise, the NRL is in a pretty good place.

Central Coast Stadium.
Lang Park.
Melbourne Rectangular Arena.
Newcastle Stadium.
North Queensland Stadium.
Parramatta Stadium.
Penrith Football Stadium.
Perth Oval.
Robina Stadium.
Stadium Australia.
Sydney Football Stadium.

Some of these great stadia don't even have NRL clubs, but were built for RL!

Below that we have decent boutique stadia like Dolphin Oval with more on the way in Kitchener Park, Cairns, Mackay, Rockhampton and Sunshine Coast.

We should create a second-tier competition to make use of the stadia we have sitting empty. Teams in Cairns, Gosford, Mackay, Moreton Bay, Perth, Rockhampton, Sunshine Coast and Wynnum. We've got the entire South Pacific to farm for talent to fill these teams.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
52,908
It speaks volumes that state and federal governments in Australia spend millions on world class stadia for rugby league clubs, whereas the English onionball clubs play out of dilapidated dumps that make Dolphin Oval look like the Taj Mahal. I think that proves which league is more prestigious!

Stadia wise, the NRL is in a pretty good place.

Central Coast Stadium.
Lang Park.
Melbourne Rectangular Arena.
Newcastle Stadium.
North Queensland Stadium.
Parramatta Stadium.
Penrith Football Stadium.
Perth Oval.
Robina Stadium.
Stadium Australia.
Sydney Football Stadium.

Some of these great stadia don't even have NRL clubs, but were built for RL!

Below that we have decent boutique stadia like Dolphin Oval with more on the way in Kitchener Park, Cairns, Mackay, Rockhampton and Sunshine Coast.

We should create a second-tier competition to make use of the stadia we have sitting empty. Teams in Cairns, Gosford, Mackay, Moreton Bay, Perth, Rockhampton, Sunshine Coast and Wynnum. We've got the entire South Pacific to farm for talent to fill these teams.
Its an interesting difference in UK where very few stadiums are built by Govt, mainly because the local councils dont have that level of funding available. This means most stadiums are privately owned and reliant on the clubs to pay for their improvements or rebuilds. In RL there a few notable exceptions to this such as KC stadium in Hull, Doncaster stadium and the new stadium in Wimbledon the London Broncos are going to move into. That differs greatly from here where only one stadium is privately owned by the club in the entire NRL.
 
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