The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[siv]

The issue with reduction is the Gold Memberships empty seats

I wonder how are RL fans any more

Or is it a way to buy a local car parking spot these days

 

[LineBall]

I heard Greenburg on the radio this morning. The story was about the NRL keeping finals matches in Sydney at the SFS, rather than at suburban grounds. He said that crowds in Sydney have been stagnant for the last decade (or two, can't remember). He then went on to state, that once the new Stadia is built, they expect an increase in crowds.

He never gives a reason for this though. I can understand how rebuilding ANZ and making it a purpose built rectangular stadium will help, but what is redevloping Parra and the SFS going to do?

I fear that once the novelty factor of these new stadiums wears off, crowds will go back to their normal levels - because - the NRL will fail to address the issues of game times, transport issues, Game-day experience and ticket prices.

 

[herbert henry1908]

The issue with reduction is the Gold Memberships empty seats

I wonder how are RL fans any more

Or is it a way to buy a local car parking spot these days

I think this issue could be easily solved.

Just make members book seats, any leftover seats release to general public.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I heard Greenburg on the radio this morning. The story was about the NRL keeping finals matches in Sydney at the SFS, rather than at suburban grounds. He said that crowds in Sydney have been stagnant for the last decade (or two, can't remember). He then went on to state, that once the new Stadia is built, they expect an increase in crowds.

He never gives a reason for this though. I can understand how rebuilding ANZ and making it a purpose built rectangular stadium will help, but what is redevloping Parra and the SFS going to do?

I fear that once the novelty factor of these new stadiums wears off, crowds will go back to their normal levels - because - the NRL will fail to address the issues of game times, transport issues, Game-day experience and ticket prices.

The experience in other cities is about a 15-20% increase with new, high quality stadiums. Doesn't seem to wear off too quickly. But there's a range of factors, team performance being the most important.

But I do expect they'll help a lot for finals.

 

[Captain Apollo]

I think this issue could be easily solved.

Just make members book seats, any leftover seats release to general public.

I don't know if it is that easy HH. The Gold memberships in particular are sold as guaranteeing a seat to all events upon payment. Changing like you suggest could infringe on the member's contractual rights I'm afraid.

I know it is different for ANZ Stadium as they have always made their members book for events.

 

[Surely]

they need smaller stadiums by the look of it, wont notice the tumbleweeds as much

 

[herbert henry1908]

I don't know if it is that easy HH. The Gold memberships in particular are sold as guaranteeing a seat to all events upon payment. Changing like you suggest could infringe on the member's contractual rights I'm afraid.

I know it is different for ANZ Stadium as they have always made their members book for events.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a clause in the membership agreement about a new stadium.

Edit:

So being the pedant I am I had a quick look through the membership terms & conditions.

Couldn't find a clause about a new stadium but I did find this:

1. Trust can vary the boundaries of the membership area whenever it wants

2. Membership doesn't guarantee a seat, it just guarantees entry to the members reserve.

So you could simply have an expandable area with large standing room just in case more members turn up than you thought. A length of the field bar could be used for such a purpose. And a lot of people might prefer that anyway.

http://www.sydneycricketground.com.au/DownloadDocument.ashx?DocumentID=3984


Edit 2:

Also had a look through their annual report to find the number of members.

There's roughly 8000 members entitled to entry to the SFS. Only 1200 of those are guaranteed seats (platinum members)

http://www.sydneycricketground.com.au/DownloadDocument.ashx?DocumentID=4929


So say you did a 35k seat stadium. With 5000 standing room bringing the total to 40k.

That'd leave approx 25k tickets available for the general public. (Could be more depending on corporate, but can't imagine this would exceed 7000.)

 

[taipan]

We all agree ANZ is about as useful in its present config, as an ashtray on a Harley Davidson.
In saying that .let's take some hypotheticals which really should have happened.
Souths ,Dogs and Tigers actually being up there fighting for a top 8 spot ,and/or being competitive all year.They apart from the Eels have large fan bases when they perform.
The question i pose would we be having all this negativity with crowds ,despite ANZ?
And would the crowds be that bad if we hadn't had a sh*tty month in autumn the worst in 10 years in Sydney to further screw the crowds.

If Greenberg is fair dinkum, he will do what the fumblers do, get better scheduling control and have the best drawing teams playing as much a possible on a Sunday arvo.
Yes some time they will have to play onThursday nights, and Friday nights, but keep it to a minimum.

People attend games when they know there is a genuine contest and not having to go and watch a predictable loss, which Souths/Doghs and even Tigers fans did or didn't this year.

And having Storm and Nth Queensland play Sydney teams on a Thursday night, is committing crowd hari kari.

Squirt off 6pm Friday nights, the Tv ratings are ordinary,surely they can squeeze them in on a Sunday arvo; Have 3 games 2/4/6 pm.

 

[Perth Red]

I heard Greenburg on the radio this morning. The story was about the NRL keeping finals matches in Sydney at the SFS, rather than at suburban grounds. He said that crowds in Sydney have been stagnant for the last decade (or two, can't remember). He then went on to state, that once the new Stadia is built, they expect an increase in crowds.

He never gives a reason for this though. I can understand how rebuilding ANZ and making it a purpose built rectangular stadium will help, but what is redevloping Parra and the SFS going to do?

I fear that once the novelty factor of these new stadiums wears off, crowds will go back to their normal levels - because - the NRL will fail to address the issues of game times, transport issues, Game-day experience and ticket prices.

If they use WS stadium for week one finals involving any WS team then it may bring in more. Penrith v Manly at a decent 35k stadium in parra would,hopefully get more than 15k. Doubt anz or Allianz upgrades will make any difference to week one finals figures

 

[herbert henry1908]

If they use WS stadium for week one finals involving any WS team then it may bring in more. Penrith v Manly at a decent 35k stadium in parra would,hopefully get more than 15k. Doubt anz or Allianz upgrades will make any difference to week one finals figures

All depends on the teams playing.

A Parra vs Canterbury game in week one could easily benefit from a new ANZ.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

Calls to shrink Allianz Stadium


A push to have the capacity of Sydney’s Allianz Stadium reduced below 40,000 as part of major rebuild appears doomed.

It is understood the National Rugby League is among the codes which would not oppose a reduction in the ground’s capacity given the success the sport has enjoyed with AAMI Park in Melbourne, where the Storm have found a home.

But the plan appears likely to fall short on several fronts, the most notable that rival sports aren’t as convinced by the concept.

Sydney FC soccer club is the only tenant at the ground whose crowds are growing and it is unlikely to back a reduction in capacity given it hosts at least one game against bitter rival Western Sydney Wanderers each year. It is understood the Australian Rugby Union would also prefer the capacity of the ground to remain at least 40,000.

The ground’s major tenants had a meeting last week where it was agreed that they should form a united front on the future of Allianz Stadium.

The NRL has been pushing the NSW government to devote the lion’s share of their $1.6 billion commitment for stadium redevelopment to ANZ Stadium at Homebush Bay. They would also like to see Allianz Stadium upgraded, although not if it means the redevelopment of ANZ Stadium suffers. NRL chief executive Todd Greenberg communicated his code’s view during a recent meeting with NSW Premier Gladys Berejiklian.

The state government is weighing up its options with regard to its stadiums strategy but crowds on the opening weekend of the finals highlighted why the NRL’s preference is to have Allianz Stadium modelled on the likes of AAMI Park.

Fewer than 20,000 people attended each of Saturday night’s and Sunday’s elimination finals between Manly and Penrith, and Cronulla and North Queensland. “I was a little disappointed in some of the crowds but I am very enthusiastic about the crowds to come in weeks two and three,” Mr Greenberg said yesterday.

“I would expect Parramatta fans this weekend at ANZ Stadium to come out in force to see their team play in a home final for the first time since, I think, 2009.

“I also expect a significant number in Brisbane to watch the Broncos and Panthers.”

Mr Greenberg also indicated he was reluctant to change the code’s stadium strategy, which dictates teams must play home finals at major venues.

“The policy gets set on an annual basis,” he said.

“We have spoken about this for a number of years.

“My simple view is that we should be talking the sport up, we should be finding ways to get more people to the games rather than finding excuses for them not to come.

“I have said this for a number of months, I will say it again. Sydney average crowds have not changed for the best part of two decades.

“That won’t change until we make a different decision on Stadium. We won’t change the difficulties we face on crowds in Sydney until we have a different stadium strategy.”


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spo...m/news-story/1b602699a95f60b5da7812e4999c240e

This is the best option...

Build a big, high quality stadium at Homebush and an AAMI-clone at Moore park

 

[Perth Red]

“I have said this for a number of months, I will say it again. Sydney average crowds have not changed for the best part of two decades. Greenberg

Is this actually true? The overall nrl avg crowd figures went up 20% upto 2012 then dropped 10% during the commissions reign. That's significant change in the last two decades.

 

[Hello, I'm The Doctor]

“I have said this for a number of months, I will say it again. Sydney average crowds have not changed for the best part of two decades. Greenberg

Is this actually true? The overall nrl avg crowd figures went up 20% upto 2012 then dropped 10% during the commissions reign. That's significant change in the last two decades.

im fairly sure thats just because the ARLC stopped letting clubs just invent numbers...

 

[Billythekid]

We all agree ANZ is about as useful in its present config, as an ashtray on a Harley Davidson.
In saying that .let's take some hypotheticals which really should have happened.
Souths ,Dogs and Tigers actually being up there fighting for a top 8 spot ,and/or being competitive all year.They apart from the Eels have large fan bases when they perform.
The question i pose would we be having all this negativity with crowds ,despite ANZ?
And would the crowds be that bad if we hadn't had a sh*tty month in autumn the worst in 10 years in Sydney to further screw the crowds.

If Greenberg is fair dinkum, he will do what the fumblers do, get better scheduling control and have the best drawing teams playing as much a possible on a Sunday arvo.
Yes some time they will have to play onThursday nights, and Friday nights, but keep it to a minimum.

People attend games when they know there is a genuine contest and not having to go and watch a predictable loss, which Souths/Doghs and even Tigers fans did or didn't this year.

And having Storm and Nth Queensland play Sydney teams on a Thursday night, is committing crowd hari kari.

Squirt off 6pm Friday nights, the Tv ratings are ordinary,surely they can squeeze them in on a Sunday arvo; Have 3 games 2/4/6 pm.

Whilst the bad weather to start the year has obviously made things look worse we would still be having this discussion anyway. It's not like this year was an anomaly, crowds have been stagnate for a decade and have been on the slow decline for a few years. This year being extra bad has just shown a spotlight on the issue.

If anything the factors that have led to this year being so bad we're a god send in some ways. Hopefully this galvanises the NRL into actually doing something.

The complaint of the big Sydney teams doing poorly irks me. In a year where 5 Sydney teams made the top 8 and 1 just missed out after being near the top all season blaming the form of Sydney clubs for poor crowds doesn't seem right. Not to mention the tigers actually did pretty decently crowd wise anyway. If Sydney crowds are literally based off the form of just a few clubs that is a problem in itself.

Your expectations on Thursday night are impossible. You state we shouldn't have big matches played on Thursday night but then complain that playing small teams leads to awful crowds. you essentially have to have one or the other basically. I'm not sure what the solution is, if there even is one.

I agree that Friday 6pm is awful for both crowds and ratings. The timeslot just doesn't make sense for anybody.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Whilst the bad weather to start the year has obviously made things look worse we would still be having this discussion anyway. It's not like this year was an anomaly, crowds have been stagnate for a decade and have been on the slow decline for a few years. This year being extra bad has just shown a spotlight on the issue.

If anything the factors that have led to this year being so bad we're a god send in some ways. Hopefully this galvanises the NRL into actually doing something.

The complaint of the big Sydney teams doing poorly irks me. In a year where 5 Sydney teams made the top 8 and 1 just missed out after being near the top all season blaming the form of Sydney clubs for poor crowds doesn't seem right. Not to mention the tigers actually did pretty decently crowd wise anyway. If Sydney crowds are literally based off the form of just a few clubs that is a problem in itself.

Your expectations on Thursday night are impossible. You state we shouldn't have big matches played on Thursday night but then complain that playing small teams leads to awful crowds. you essentially have to have one or the other basically. I'm not sure what the solution is, if there even is one.

I agree that Friday 6pm is awful for both crowds and ratings. The timeslot just doesn't make sense for anybody.

Friday 6pm isn't actually bad for ratings. The figures were actually pretty good. Suspect there was a big increase in the second half though.

Re bad weather.

Sydney is always rainy from march-June, one of the reasons we should've been looking at a roof in all new stadiums.

 

[Billythekid]

Friday 6pm isn't actually bad for ratings. The figures were actually pretty good. Suspect there was a big increase in the second half though.

Re bad weather.

Sydney is always rainy from march-June, one of the reasons we should've been looking at a roof in all new stadiums.

I did exaggerate there. Friday 6pm isn't awful for ratings but it certainly isn't good enough to justify the awful crowds. At least with Thursday I can see the compromise because it rates well in FTA and fox even if I think they should remove that timeslot.

I'm aware that the start of the season is always marred by weather. Every year we hear the same excuses re rain but obviously this year was a bit more extreme.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Friday 6pm isn't actually bad for ratings. The figures were actually pretty good. Suspect there was a big increase in the second half though.

Re bad weather.

Sydney is always rainy from march-June, one of the reasons we should've been looking at a roof in all new stadiums.

Yep, traditionally winter is the period of the year where Sydney get's a fair chunk of its annual rainfall.

 

[herbert henry1908]

I did exaggerate there. Friday 6pm isn't awful for ratings but it certainly isn't good enough to justify the awful crowds. At least with Thursday I can see the compromise because it rates well in FTA and fox even if I think they should remove that timeslot.

I'm aware that the start of the season is always marred by weather. Every year we hear the same excuses re rain but obviously this year was a bit more extreme.

Rain issue is exacerbated by antiquated grounds.

If it rains modern stadiums are much more preferable, even if they don't have a full roof.

I mean brookvale, Leichhardt, shark park, Penrith & Campbelltown are an absolute shit show if it rains. Particularly the first two.

 

[beave]

NQ's Stadium had it's first truck on the scene a couple of days ago, let's get this shit done!!!

 

[taipan]

Whilst the bad weather to start the year has obviously made things look worse we would still be having this discussion anyway. It's not like this year was an anomaly, crowds have been stagnate for a decade and have been on the slow decline for a few years. This year being extra bad has just shown a spotlight on the issue.

If anything the factors that have led to this year being so bad we're a god send in some ways. Hopefully this galvanises the NRL into actually doing something.

The complaint of the big Sydney teams doing poorly irks me. In a year where 5 Sydney teams made the top 8 and 1 just missed out after being near the top all season blaming the form of Sydney clubs for poor crowds doesn't seem right. Not to mention the tigers actually did pretty decently crowd wise anyway. If Sydney crowds are literally based off the form of just a few clubs that is a problem in itself.

Your expectations on Thursday night are impossible. You state we shouldn't have big matches played on Thursday night but then complain that playing small teams leads to awful crowds. you essentially have to have one or the other basically. I'm not sure what the solution is, if there even is one.

I agree that Friday 6pm is awful for both crowds and ratings. The timeslot just doesn't make sense for anybody.

Wet weather is of course expected ,no argument from me.But consistent worst weather for 10 years at this time was highly unusual.It had a huge impact on crowds over a month.Not a week, not two weeks bit a bleeding month.There is not a rectangular stadium in Sydney including ANZ with decent cover, bloody criminal.

Crowds have stagnated agree.Many reasons no doubt.But 6pm Friday will not draw crowds regardless of Greenberg's suggesting they are kid friendly.
Thursday nights are no better than Monday nights,and especcially,as we are stuck at ANZ ,with Sydney traffic at peak hour in that area.Good luck.

sorry have to disagree and not just from the 2000s but the 90s and 80s.The non performance of big drawing teams also don't help.Having the Dogs/Tigers/Souths all performing ordinarily is also not the usual.
If Greenberg is correct,and they do have full control over scheduling from 2018, then something like that should give a crowd lift.

The NRL had to borrow $30m in advance we are told.Hence their marketing this year has been abysmal.Their income kicks in next year,surely that is the incentive needed to become aggressive marketing and growing the game.

Whilst I'm a Shark's fan I'm the first to acknowledge they,Sea Eagles,Roosters,Pemnrith are hardly massive crowd attracters unless its finals.And look at the latest crowds at the semis.
The biggest ANZ crowds involved the Dogs and Eels and Souths.
Historically Eels/Souths/Dogs/Tigers/Dragons when all performing are the biggest crowd pullers.Only one in the top 8 this year .In fact the best year for crowds 2005 was when the Tigers won the Premiership.

I stated Thursday nights we have to put up with (nothing to do with they will put only low team on all the time)and of course there will be occasions when the top clubs play then.But if i repeat Greenberg is correct and they control the scheduling, there should be a lot more Sunday afternoons fro these top clubs, than exist now.
Eg We had the Shark's v Storm play the G/F replay on a Thursday night this year end wondered why there was crowd less than 8,000.OK play it on a Friday night 8pm for max TV ratings and a crowd ,but a Thursday night sheesh.I could get a 12 year old, to better schedule than that.