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The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,316
Reminds me a lot of the Perth stadium decision that took decades. Some wanted a redeveloped Subi, some wanted a city stadium, in the end they got it right but geez it took a long time to get there!
Yeah, I really hope Auckland sees sense too. The new Perth stadium looks great!

Aside from the "appeal to tradition" argument & raising questions over a new Quay Park stadium's funding, the most interesting point of difference that Eden Park can put forward is it's proposed post-upgrade 70k capacity versus Quay Park's proposed 55k.

Keep in mind, current Eden Park capacity is 50k standard seating, upgradable to 60k with temporary seats.

I honestly don't know whether the extra 15k between the two proposals is much of a selling point for Eden Park, given that Eden Park really only gets to capacity for sports on the very few times the All Blacks play.

Maybe if they decide on Quay Park, they might determine that it needs to be revised up to 60k so that it meets the current Eden Park (with temporary seats) capacity?

I think that just as important as maximum capacity will be the option(s) around scaling-back seating for mid-low pulling games... a compelling "club mode" for Warriors, Blues, Auckland FC, and Auckland province rugby where crowds that aren't 40k plus are well catered for.
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
35,336
More on Auckland's looming stadium decision...


Both cost one billion but one is a brand new build the other lipstick on a pig

Article says Eden park isn’t feasible as a stadium and still owes Auckland council 40 million from a World Cup held there 14 years ago
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,316
Both cost one billion but one is a brand new build the other lipstick on a pig

Article says Eden park isn’t feasible as a stadium and still owes Auckland council 40 million from a World Cup held there 14 years ago
Yeah, the World Cup debt is an interesting dimension - the scenario of selling Eden Park land to a developer & clawing back that debt (and then some, I imagine!) will appeal to Auckland Council - and the more land that's "on the block" for sale, the bigger the sale price...

I just hope that if Eden Park is demolished, decent density housing replaces it - it's much needed.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,407
Yeah, I really hope Auckland sees sense too. The new Perth stadium looks great!

Aside from the "appeal to tradition" argument & raising questions over a new Quay Park stadium's funding, the most interesting point of difference that Eden Park can put forward is it's proposed post-upgrade 70k capacity versus Quay Park's proposed 55k.

Keep in mind, current Eden Park capacity is 50k standard seating, upgradable to 60k with temporary seats.

I honestly don't know whether the extra 15k between the two proposals is much of a selling point for Eden Park, given that Eden Park really only gets to capacity for sports on the very few times the All Blacks play.

Maybe if they decide on Quay Park, they might determine that it needs to be revised up to 60k so that it meets the current Eden Park (with temporary seats) capacity?

I think that just as important as maximum capacity will be the option(s) around scaling-back seating for mid-low pulling games... a compelling "club mode" for Warriors, Blues, Auckland FC, and Auckland province rugby where crowds that aren't 40k plus are well catered for.
That does seem to be an issue that no stadium has yet done anything about. 20-25k in a 60k stadium is pretty crap for atmosphere. Being able to down scale a stadium for clubs remains an enigma for Aus/NZ.
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,316
That does seem to be an issue that no stadium has yet done anything about. 20-25k in a 60k stadium is pretty crap for atmosphere. Being able to down scale a stadium for clubs remains an enigma for Aus/NZ.
Precisely!

The Warriors averaged just under 24k last year, so there's certainly scope for 25k-30k club mode.. and on a good season if demand is higher then they could open all OR part of the upper deck.

The curious one is Rugby Union - Super Rugby seems to vary between under 10k for low appeal Aussie teams & just over 20k for some NZ derbies.. and NPC (provincial rugby) even lower.

Will be interesting to see if the Auckland provincial team end up looking for cheaper & more intimate venues if Quay Park goes ahead.
 

flippikat

First Grade
Messages
5,316
Finally some sensible discussion in NZ about an Auckland stadium. Thanks for the updates @flippikat
Cheers - I think the prospect of an entertainment precinct based around the existing indoor arena PLUS a new footy/concerts stadium is pretty exciting for Auckland's CBD.

The bonus of getting more housing from the ex-Eden Park land would be great too - a real opportunity to do suburban intensification well, especially given that's right near the train line.

This could easily turn from just being a stadium project to revitalizing the CBD and suburbs (more residents = more demand for local businesses in the suburbs). Win-win really.
 

Desert Qlder

First Grade
Messages
9,458

'I'm not an AFL stooge': Barr defends rugby World Cup decision, reveals $10m offer​


Andrew Barr has fired back at the idea he is "a stooge for a southern code" after Canberra was overlooked as a host city for the Rugby World Cup, revealing a $10 million offer for four matches was knocked back by tournament organisers, while defending a heavy investment in AFL games to Manuka Oval.

Canberra fans will have to watch from the sidelines during the 2027 tournament after the ACT government and tournament officials failed to strike a deal despite more than two years' worth of negotiations.

The result has left rugby fans fuming about being left out of one of the biggest sporting events in the world, with the ACT government now under fire for a 10-year, $28.5 million investment to bring GWS Giants games to Canberra.

But Barr has shot back at people claiming rugby is not a priority for the Chief Minister, who they say would rather sink millions into a western Sydney-based AFL team.

"I've been to more than 100 Brumbies games over my time. I've been following them since they came into the competition in 1995," Barr said on ABC Radio.

"I was born in northern NSW. I've lived in Canberra for 47 years, so this idea that somehow I am a stooge for a southern code is, is an interesting proposition. People have favourite sports, they don't like other sports. There are 470,000 Canberrans, half of them don't care about sport at all, but the ones that do will follow a variety of different codes and they have a variety of different views.

"In the end, we have AFL, rugby league, rugby union, football, basketball, baseball, netball, we have all the sports covered and we seek in balancing our event budget and our sport and recreation budget to provide opportunities for every sport.

"The package we put to the tournament organisers was between $2 and $3 million per game, so an $8 million to $12 million package for those four games.

"If only half the seats were sold, they'd make $8 million. If they sold three-quarters of the seats, they'd make about $10 million. If all the seats were sold, they stood to make $12 million.

"The estimates and the pitch to us was that we might get about $9 million of value. But we would have been shelled out a considerable amount of money, and the opportunity cost that's lost there is events that return significantly more."

Barr also shut down the idea Canberra Stadium played a factor in the decision despite tournament organisers expressing concern about the ageing facility, declaring the final call was "all about money ... If the money was there, they were taking it."

ACT government officials are adamant their offer for "category C" World Cup fixtures - included provision of a rent free commercially clean match venue, marketing support, support for the provision of a fan zone, integrated ticketing and free public transport - was realistic and financially responsible.

The offer amounted to about $2.5 million for each match, based on 75 per cent capacity attendance at each match including ticket sale and hospitality revenue.

Canberra Stadium boasted an average crowd figure of 20,482 across four fixtures during the 2003 edition which featured Italy, Tonga, Wales and Canada.

Pressed on whether the AFL investment is worth it, Barr's counterargument was the ACT would be the only state or territory missing out on elite level AFL if the deal was ripped off the table.

However now Canberra - home to one of just four Australian Super Rugby teams - will miss out on Rugby World Cup games, despite fixtures being awarded to non-traditional rugby union markets in Newcastle and Adelaide.

"But we do have soccer, and we do have rugby union, and we have obviously local teams that we support. We also secure matches that involve either those local teams or indeed our national team playing in those sports," Barr said.
"An example for this year is of course the Brumbies versus the British and Irish Lions. That's supporting our team playing against a quality international opponent at our venue."

Barr says an investment into the Brumbies - who have walked a financial tightrope in recent years - remains the territory's biggest professional rugby priority, while vowing to continue supporting other Canberra teams such as Canberra United, who face an uncertain future beyond this season after being saved by a $200,000 bailout by the government last year.

"We do provide more money for those local sporting teams and we anticipate given some of the events that are transpiring in some of those sporting codes that we'll need to provide even more money," Barr said.

"We often are the largest financial supporter of those local teams. Without the ACT government, they wouldn't exist."

 
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i0Nic

Juniors
Messages
150
AFL just have their tentacles everywhere, heaven forbid the aging Canberra Stadium get's an upgrade, a stadium that's used by multiple sports including top tier professional clubs - full time. But Manuka Oval for a handful of AFL games needs an upgrade.
 

Wb1234

Immortal
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35,336
One million for each western Sydney giants game and only offered 2 million for a union wc games where they still have a local side in Canberra

He’s just treating the local footy codes with contempt
 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
35,336
Hate to think what Roger has paid for the opening ceremony game and 6 games!
Why wouldn’t they upgrade hbf with all those extra games even without a Perth nrl team

The benefits of the upgraded ground for W.A. in terms of tourism boost will more than justify the cost
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
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70,407
Why wouldn’t they upgrade hbf with all those extra games even without a Perth nrl team

The benefits of the upgraded ground for W.A. in terms of tourism boost will more than justify the cost
The presser says they are all being played at Optus. IF an NRL team happens then Id expect HBF park to be upgraded in time for the lessor games to be played there, depending on expected ticket demand.

 

Wb1234

Immortal
Messages
35,336
The presser says they are all being played at Optus. IF an NRL team happens then Id expect HBF park to be upgraded in time for the lessor games to be played there, depending on expected ticket demand.

That’s ambitious playing them at Optus given the state of Union in W.A.

Would’ve thought 27k would be perfect capacity for them.

Big slap in the face for Canberra getting no games given how successful the brumbies have been in super rugby compared to the force
 

It's Been Done

Juniors
Messages
724
That’s ambitious playing them at Optus given the state of Union in W.A.

Would’ve thought 27k would be perfect capacity for them.

Big slap in the face for Canberra getting no games given how successful the brumbies have been in super rugby compared to the force
Wallabies games still get decent crowds out West. Especially compared to the rest of the nation and Union holds the sporting record crowd in WA. Only the ACT also has the all time highest crowd being a Rugby Union match. NSW and Queensland as expected have Rugby League, while Victoria, South Australia, Tasmania and the NT have Aussie Rules as their all time record crowds for sporting events
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,407
That’s ambitious playing them at Optus given the state of Union in W.A.

Would’ve thought 27k would be perfect capacity for them.

Big slap in the face for Canberra getting no games given how successful the brumbies have been in super rugby compared to the force
Like I said if its updated due to NRL then I expect the lessor games to be there. If not then Id expect double headers at Optus. They'll get 30k+ at them I expect. Its going to be hyped to hell given we've gone all in paying big money and the nationalism of the event which will see plenty of Perths immigrants who arent Union fans turn out for the occasion.

Fully expect the HBF park upgrade to focus on NRL use and RUWC usage (presuming a deal gets done with NRL).
 

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