Future World Cup qualifying pools

[Kurt Angle]

In the future, how would you like to see qualification for the world cup.

Firstly how many teams, and secondly, do you think the basis should entirely the best <x number of> teams?

FIFA doesn't do this, nor does FIBA.

They focus much on regional representation, even though it means weaker teams do come in.

For mine in 2013, I think we can have a 12 team comp.

It would still have the super pool concept, and two 'weaker' pools of 4 as well.

But for mine

Auto Qualfiers
1. Australia
2. NZ
3. England
4. France
5. PNG

Then ----

Two 'East Asia/Pacific Qualfiers' + 1 to repecharge from;
1. Tonga
2. Fiji
3. Samoa
4. Cook Islands
5. Japan

Two 'British Isles Qualifiers' + 1 to repecharge from;
1. Wales
2. Ireland
3. Scotland

One 'Continental Europe/West Asia' + 1 to repecharge Qualifier from;
1. Lebanon
2. Russia
3. Serbia
4+ Assorted Holland/Germany/Italy/Greece/Malta whoever forms

One 'Atlantic' + 1 to repecharge qualifier from;
1. USA
2. Jamaica
3. South Africa

Firstly I am big on a continental Europe qualifier. This area is our biggest growth area and it needs a world cup incentive.

By sticking them in 'Europe' it means they come across guys like Scotland and Ireland, and will always get punched up by the grand parent rule. Thus by seperating them we guarantee at least one team will always get through.

I'm a bit hestitant on the 'Atlantic' getting an automatic spot, maybe the Atlantic winner should go up against 2nd from 'Continental Europe', and the repechare just be Asia/Pac vs British Isles. for the 12th spot.

 

[Misanthrope]

They focus much on regional representation, even though it means weaker teams do come in.

I agree 100%. Part of what makes union seem so successful at international level is that their regional qualification is beefed up and creates the illusion of genuine competition. Even if the likes of Brazil and Hong Kong are never going to go close to qualifying, but including them in the process they're both giving them added games to develop through, and giving an outsider the illusion that there are more competitive nations out there than there really are.

 

[whatsdoing1982]

I say 12 teams for the 2013 WC
Top 4 from the 2008 WC automatic qualification

Aus, NZ, Eng, Frc

PNG, Tonga (Top 2 from Pacific Cup PNG, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, Cook Islands)

Wales, Ireland (Winner of European Cup: Wales, Scotland, Russia, Ireland, Lebanon)

USA (Winner from Americas: USA, Argentina, South Africa, Jamaica)

the winner of this one goes to repecharge

Malta (Georgia, Japan, Malta, Morocco)

Repecharge finals for remaining 3 spots

Repecharge 1 Samoa, Scotland, Malta
Repecharge 2 Lebanon, Fiji, South Africa

the two runners up verse for final spot.

This gives

Pool 1: Aus, Irel, Samoa
Pool 2: NZ, Wales, Lebanon
Pool 3: Eng, PNG, Fiji
Pool 4: Frc, Tonga, USA

Then into quarter finals

 

[Kurt Angle]

There's no structure to that...

you haven't said how lebanon get from the euro cup to repecharge2

Repecharge pool 2 gets 2 qualifiers, where as repecharge pool 1 gets one qualifier.

 

[Turdy Angle]

I agree 100%. Part of what makes union seem so successful at international level is that their regional qualification is beefed up and creates the illusion of genuine competition. Even if the likes of Brazil and Hong Kong are never going to go close to qualifying, but including them in the process they're both giving them added games to develop through, and giving an outsider the illusion that there are more competitive nations out there than there really are.

beefed up and creates the illusion :lol: The IRB must be working for David Copperfield .

Mate, Hong Kong were only two games away from qualifying for the 1991 RWC .
Who ever thought that Portugal, Zimbabwe, Ivory Coast, Namibia, Georgia, Uruguay and Spain were going to play in the RWC ?
Not you and defently not me .;-)

 

[pcpp]

12 teams - same 5 automatic qualifiers, qualification process by Kurt Angle as suggested above

France, PNG, Top Pacific Qualifier, Top British Isle Qualifier to play in a round-robin international series before the world cup for seeding process (winner = 4th seed, 4th place = 7th seed).

*Edit: This final's format is unintentionally similar to mattystans000 system posted earlier, I had not seen it before I posted this.

Group stage matches - 18 in total

Pool 1: Australia, NZ, England, 4th seed
Pool 2: 5th seed, 7th seed, 2nd British, 1st Atlantic
Pool 3: 6th seed, 2nd Pacific, 1st Europe, Repechage

Knockout Round 1

Match 19: 1st Pool 2 v 2nd Pool 3
Match 20: 1st Pool 3 vs 2nd Pool 2

Knockout Round 2

Match 21: 3rd Pool 1 v Winner Match 19
Match 22: 4th Pool 1 vs Winner Match 20

Semi-Finals

Match 23: 2nd Pool 1 vs Winner Match 21
Match 24: 1st Pool 1 vs Winner Match 22

Final

Match 25: Winner Match 23 v Winner Match 24

 

[roopy]

I think we will miss a lot of opportunities to spread the game by having automatic qualifiers for the next one.
I want to see England have to go to Russia for a genuine match, not to mention France having to go to Serbia or Malta or Lebanon.
We will hopefully have a few dollars to put on the qualifiers next time - so we can afford to put on games that won't necessarily make a profit like Aus or NZ in Tonga or Fiji.

I'd like to see us have a three year cycle with the first year having emerging nations playoffs where teams like USA, Jamacia, Serbia, South Africa, Japan, New Caledonia, Cook Islands etc etc etc have a series of games to decide teams to enter the main draw against the ten sides who make the 2008 finals.

The next two years i would have three groups of 6 teams playing each other to decide four finalists from each group to go through to the 12 team finals.

That is five games over two years for each side and would allow for games like USA v PNG in Jacksonville and England v Russia in Moscow.

The teams outside the top 18 don't get a lot of footy organised for them for three years out of four - but realistically - number 19 ranked side in RL hasn't got much happening yet anyway and giving them the year after the WC to prove themselves in each four year cycle is good enough.

 

[mattystans000]

Six Auto Qualifiers:
Australia
New Zealand
England
France
Papua New Guinea
Wales

Pacific Nations Tournament: (Top Two Qualify for World Cup/Third into Repechage)
Tonga
Samoa
Fiji
Cook Islands

European Nations Tournament: (Top of Pool A and Pool B Qualify for World Cup/Second of Pool A and Pool B into Repechage)
Pool A-----Pool B
Ireland----Scotland
Lebanon--Russia
Italy-------Gerogia

Continental Europe Qualifying Pool: (Top Two into European Nations Tournament)
Italy
Georgia
Holland
Serbia

Atlantic Qualifying Pool: (Winner into Repechage)
USA
Japan

Repechage: (Top of Pool A and Pool B Qualify for World Cup)
Pool A--------Pool B
Pacific 3rd----Europe Pool A 2nd
Atlantic 1st---Europe Pool B 2nd

Pool A:
A1 Australia
A2 New Zealand
A3 England
A4 France

Pool B:
B1 Wales
B2 Tonga
B3 Samoa
B4 Scotland

Pool C:
C1 Papua New Guinea
C2 Fiji
C3 Ireland
C4 Lebanon

Finals Week 1
Qualifying Finals
Pool B1 v Pool C2
Pool B2 v Pool C1

Finals Week 2
Preliminary Finals
Pool A3 v QF1 W
Pool A4 v QF2 W

Semi Final Determiner
Pool A1 v Pool A1

Finals Week 3
Semi Finals
SFD W v PF2 W
SFD L v PF1 W

RLWC Final
SF1 W v SF2 W


anyway thats my qualifying system and really uses just about every nation with a realistic level of competitiveness for entry to a world cup, don't have nation's waste money on overseas trips when they have no chance.

also roopy, while it would be nice to see games like that there isn't a chance of it happening and the benefits to the minnow nations are highly questionable. case in point japans match against malta nearly sent them broke, even if the big nations are paying for it they will become nothing matches the likes only the union world cup knows or the league world cup of 2000? huge scorelines don't give much to either nation at the end of the day.

 

[pcpp]

umm pcpp, i see you read my post: http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=185417, and took my finals system as your own... :? just a little recognition, you know?

I've seriously never even seen your post before... in fact, if I can find it, I remember proposing a similar finals format under a 10 team system.

Here are a few of them (posted 6 and 12 months ago):

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showpost.php?p=2940412&postcount=15
http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?p=3329476#post3329476

Sorry though, it was completely unintentional that I posted such a format so similar to the one you posted earlier.

 

[bazza]

The world cup in 2008 will have play offs to rank teams up to 10th place - these rankings should have some bearing on the next qualification process.

I would have the 4 semi-finalists be automatic qualifiers for the next world cup (e.g. Australia, NZ, England, France).

Realistically, the only reall geographic areas currently are Europe (including Lebanon, Morroco?) and Asia-Pacific (Aus, NZ, Pacific Islands, Japan, US). The likes of Jamaica and South Africa would have to join up with one of these for qualifiers

For a 10 team would cup I would have the 4 automatic qualifiers then 2 each from Europe and the Asia-Pacific groups. Then playoffs between the next best 2 from each group.

This would give plenty of meaningful matches for a lot of countries.

The other thing is that an Asia-Pacific RL needs to be established like the RLEF - then each association could run their qualification process as best suits there area

 

[mattystans000]

I've seriously never even seen your post before... in fact, if I can find it, I remember proposing a similar finals format under a 10 team system.

Here are a few of them (posted 6 and 12 months ago):

http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showpost.php?p=2940412&postcount=15
http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?p=3329476#post3329476

ok, sorry. it's just extremly similar to what mine is, sorry again.

 

[Misanthrope]

Who ever thought that Portugal, Zimbabwe, Ivory Coast, Namibia, Georgia, Uruguay and Spain were going to play in the RWC ?

When you're letting twenty teams into a World Cup for a sport in which only about ten sides are legitimate rugby nations - of course you're going to get all manner of minnow nations involved. If league allowed twenty we'd have the likes of Jamaica, Malta, and Morocco involved too.

The standard of professionalism across the board in most rugby teams seems to be lower. The top sides aren't as far above the minnows of the game not because the quality is better in the minnows - but because overall the quality of team is worse. The Wallabies and All Blacks can lose to the likes of France and Scotland not because Scotland have any spectacular rugby depth - but because the Wallabies and All Blacks just aren't as good as their RL counterparts.

 

[bender]

8 team world cup.

No automatic qualifiers(other than host nation and champions).Assuming New Zealand and Australia.

Host Nation: New Zealand

Qualifying Group 1: Britain - England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales
Qualifying Group 2: Europe - PNG, France, Russia, USA
Qualifying Group 3: Pacific - Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, Cook Islands
Qualifying Group 4: Sydney - Lebanon, Italy, Greece, Malta

Qualifying Group 5: South Africa - West Indies, South Africa, Japan
Qualifying Group 6: Serbia - Serbia, Holland, Germany

Winner of Groups 1-4 go through.
Second of groups 1-4 play winner of groups 5 & 6 in repecharge with top 2 going through.


I honestly think this format gives RL the best of everything. Plenty of great qualifiers with even matches. Group qualifying games that can go close to self financing each other. Plenty of options to tinker the qualifying according to the growth and development of nations. Qualifying for the world cup will actually be an achievement and mean something (good sides will miss out). There will be no easy games in the world cup and each world cup pool game will be potentially big rating games between legitimate sides, and there will be no need to artificially create a super pool, just to ensure big games.

 

[pcpp]

8 team world cup.

Surely we can't go backwards again

No automatic qualifiers(other than host nation and champions).Assuming New Zealand and Australia.

There is no reason England, France and PNG shouldn't be automatically qualified.

England - guaranteed top nation, pointless to play qualification games
France - been in every world cup, hosted the first one
PNG - only country that religiously follows RL

Qualifying Group 1: Britain - England, Ireland, Scotland, Wales
Qualifying Group 2: Europe - PNG, France, Russia, USA
Qualifying Group 3: Pacific - Samoa, Tonga, Fiji, Cook Islands
Qualifying Group 4: Sydney - Lebanon, Italy, Greece, Malta

Qualifying Group 5: South Africa - West Indies, South Africa, Japan
Qualifying Group 6: Serbia - Serbia, Holland, Germany

Winner of Groups 1-4 go through.
Second of groups 1-4 play winner of groups 5 & 6 in repecharge with top 2 going through.

Massive problems here.

The teams in 4, 5 and 6 are no where near the quality of groups 1, 2 and 3. One comparatively mediocre team will definitely qualify through Group 4 while 5 and 6 have a much easier path to the world cup - even though they are no where near the level of second placed finishers in the first three pools.

 

[Turdy Angle]

When you're letting twenty teams into a World Cup for a sport in which only about ten sides are legitimate rugby nations - of course you're going to get all manner of minnow nations involved. If league allowed twenty we'd have the likes of Jamaica, Malta, and Morocco involved too.

The standard of professionalism across the board in most rugby teams seems to be lower. The top sides aren't as far above the minnows of the game not because the quality is better in the minnows - but because overall the quality of team is worse. The Wallabies and All Blacks can lose to the likes of France and Scotland not because Scotland have any spectacular rugby depth - but because the Wallabies and All Blacks just aren't as good as their RL counterparts.

I dont think you can compare the likes of Malta, Morocco and Jamaica to the minnows who are playing in the RWC .
The minnows in rugby union have been playing rugby for a long time and have local competitions as long as I can remember .
Just because the minnows in RLWC have been totally ignore by your governing body it doesn't mean you can then turn the table on the rugby union minnows .
Our minnows are getting help to make sure they can play in the next RWC .

The All blacks is still the best rugby team on the planet . Just because upsets can happen in the RWC and it doesn't happen in yours it doesn't mean they have drop their standards .
Its call development . Something that your governing body doesn't have any idea about it .
You might have a few upsets in your RLWC if your governing body get off their ass help the likes of PNG, France and the PI's countries .
If that happens I would be happy to say that was an upset . Not because the Kiwi's and the Kangaroo's drop their standards .;-)

 

[crimpo]

Three glaring errors in your posts about RU so far Turdy old boy! So I advise you go learn about your own sport before coming here and making a fool of yourself!

 

[Turdy Angle]

When you're letting twenty teams into a World Cup for a sport in which only about ten sides are legitimate rugby nations - of course you're going to get all manner of minnow nations involved. If league allowed twenty we'd have the likes of Jamaica, Malta, and Morocco involved too.

The standard of professionalism across the board in most rugby teams seems to be lower. The top sides aren't as far above the minnows of the game not because the quality is better in the minnows - but because overall the quality of team is worse. The Wallabies and All Blacks can lose to the likes of France and Scotland not because Scotland have any spectacular rugby depth - but because the Wallabies and All Blacks just aren't as good as their RL counterparts.

All Blacks just aren't as good as their RL counterparts .:lol: :lol: :lol: The All Blacks will have done a better job yesterday than their useless counterparts .

 

[Turdy Angle]

Three glaring errors in your posts about RU so far Turdy old boy! So I advise you go learn about your own sport before coming here and making a fool of yourself!

What errors are those ? Does that count yesterdays RL test errors ?:roll: