Give Mason and Ata a go.

[ozbash]

What have we got to lose ?

Both carving up in reggies..

 

[playdaball]

Ive never thought that Mason is up to regular 1st grade standard however he'd get the team to the last tackle and make the right conservative option. Perhaps that is what is required? I can't see it happening though.

 

[JJ]

It won't happen, but probably should - we aren't competitive, I am happy to take losses if there's a plan/process of development involved - all we have now is mention of a process, not talking about obvious issues and the same shit, where we're competitive on paper/according to the media

 

[RHYTHM AND STEALTH]

these 2 are great halves
but our halves are not the problems

 

[RHYTHM AND STEALTH]

Did roache play last night. bully looks like he is coming into form so roache is not needed now. put ata or mas in the reserves

 

[jaseg]

I imagine Roache will travel up the coast and play reserves today.

I'm comfortable with him on the bench, as he is the best backs-cover utility we have, and I'm not convinced Luke will maintain form.

That, and what's the point of another forward on the bench when we have 3 guys who can easily play 80 or close enough to, leaving 5 guys rotating in and out of essentially 2 spots (plus maybe 10-15 minutes for Mannering).. two of whom I'd like to see play as many minutes as they can (Gavet & Matulino).

As R&S mentioned, the halves just aren't the problem. Bodene & Kata are the immediate problem, but in general a boost in the outside backs and a bigger one in the middle is required.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

Everyone that complains about Shaun Johnson PICKS Shaun Johnson in their 13 every week or likes someone elses post with SJ in at 7. Every week its 'oh SJ can't run a team etc etc'... well how about we replace him with Hingano. You want more structure right?

Shaun can go to fullback and RTS can captain from the wing, Ken gets dropped. You want Shaun to run it a lot? Well ok then fullback it is.

Theres no law of physics that states Shaun HAS to play 7. Beauden Barrett played fullback and even wing for the All Blacks before he played 10. If Kearney wants to show some innovation as a coach he'd try it, otherwise the teams he picks is no different than Cappys.

Recall Ata or debut Lino.

 

[jaseg]

Johnson is, to my mind, probably the 3rd best halfback in the world (there really is only 2 world class halfbacks going around - it's a fair drop off after that). At absolute worst he still makes the top 5. He isn't the problem.

We already have a premium playmaker - we need to build around him.

I'll use the NFL as an example; there's 2 QBs in that league who can carry a team by themselves (Rodgers & Brady). But there are plenty of teams that can win in any given season, because they have a quality QB and have built around him. Guys like Eli Manning and Joe Flacco have won rings, while the supremely talented Andrew Luck has never been genuinely close in 5 attempts (he got to a conference championship once thanks to being in the AFC and avoiding the Pats until that point, and was promptly absolutely flogged)... because his franchise haven't been able to build the right roster around him.

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

Johnson is, to my mind, probably the 3rd best halfback in the world (there really is only 2 world class halfbacks going around - it's a fair drop off after that). At absolute worst he still makes the top 5. He isn't the problem.

We already have a premium playmaker - we need to build around him.

I'll use the NFL as an example; there's 2 QBs in that league who can carry a team by themselves (Rodgers & Brady). But there are plenty of teams that can win in any given season, because they have a quality QB and have built around him. Guys like Eli Manning and Joe Flacco have won rings, while the supremely talented Andrew Luck has never been genuinely close in 5 attempts (he got to a conference championship once thanks to being in the AFC and avoiding the Pats until that point, and was promptly absolutely flogged)... because his franchise haven't been able to build the right roster around him.

I too think Johnson is the 3rd best halfback and I agree theres a fair drop after that. His game management doesn't have that consistency and I know that a lot of that is due to the underperforming forwards. Some of the choices he makes are that of a wannabe, for example, Radradra scored his runaway yesterday of a Johnson predictable grubber (which French and Radradra were ready for) that Guthbertson blocked with his foot. It was just so predictable. Even the kicks out to touch after sets are so predictable and is questionable when were losing or when the game had a stoppage just moments ago. When the passing through the backline gets static and the runners are in stop/go motion trying to stay behind the forward passing line and then Johnson tries to push the pass through all of that to a player who's now standing still, its just Hail Mary at times.

I'd have him at 7, Im not one of those ones that complain every week about him at 7 but why not try something different. Its the same old great one week, missing the next.

 

[JJ]

Johnson's not the problem, not sure he's the solution though

Regardless IMO the season is gone, no idea what the process is but I don't think we are close to competing

So if Hingano is the future 6 why not give him the job now? Why rehab Foran further, he's not part of the future and we don't owe him anything? I know he's quality but surely first grade is the place for Hingano to develop now?

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

Johnson's not the problem, not sure he's the solution though

Regardless IMO the season is gone, no idea what the process is but I don't think we are close to competing

So if Hingano is the future 6 why not give him the job now? Why rehab Foran further, he's not part of the future and we don't owe him anything? I know he's quality but surely first grade is the place for Hingano to develop now?

Id actually pair up Foran and Hingano. We've seen Hingano and Johnson for weeks and weeks and it wasn't working. Foran came in and made a massive difference and continues to do so. Johnson can go to the back, he'll still definitely play.

 

[JJ]

My point is largely Foran is not here next year, and we should be thinking about 18

 

[Philip_Smith007]

My point is largely Foran is not here next year, and we should be thinking about 18

Hingo could learn a few things from him though in a game vs training.

 

[JJ]

Yeah that's true, I'm not sure what to do, bs pretty sure Kearney had no clue

But the process should now be focused on 2018 imo

 

[Philip_Smith007]

Johnson's not the problem, not sure he's the solution though

Regardless IMO the season is gone, no idea what the process is but I don't think we are close to competing

So if Hingano is the future 6 why not give him the job now? Why rehab Foran further, he's not part of the future and we don't owe him anything? I know he's quality but surely first grade is the place for Hingano to develop now?

I'm starting to think he is part of the problem.

If we go back over the season how many points has he cost us with dud kicks, intercepts, racing out of the line etc.

If you have a job description for a half back, he may be 10/10 for some aspects, but the rest he is 5's at best.
How many 40/20's?
How well does he organise plays?
How many times is he jumping out of the line?
How effectives is he at getting repeat sets?
Knowing what to play in front of him, when not a large gap or tired forwards?

He pulls out some great games and we all fall back in love, then he shits the bed again.
Capable of brilliance, but not of consistancy.

You can't build a team around someone who is not consistant,

 

[jaseg]

You can't build a team around someone who is not consistant,

Name me a halfback who isn't either a) Cooper Cronk or b) rubbish, that is consistent.

And no, Thurston does not really fit that bill - he has a higher variance in performance than Johnson does, on a game-to-game basis (when normalised for difference in output levels, they're very similar in terms of variance). He just has better teammates who can step in more often when he doesn't produce - and in recent years he has consistently been in better positions and game-states on the field, thanks to his teammates.

I went into a little more detail about this about a year back, but halves are just not consistent players. It's a function of the position. Every decent output half (except Cronk) has large variance game-to-game.

Fact is, Bodene & Kata lost us that game, not Shaun. If one doesn't play, we probably win. If both don't play, we near certainly win. Either way, the conversation around Johnson focuses more on what he created (1 linebreak, 1 try assist and 2 linebreak assists) than the errors, compared to now. The loss frames this conversation very differently - and he wasn't close to being the primary cause of that loss.

 

[ozbash]

Name me a halfback who isn't either a) Cooper Cronk or b) rubbish, that is consistent.

Adam Reynolds ?

I think SJ thinks he is responsible for every play and gets frustrated when every play doesn't come off.

He likes to be in 3 places at once and seems to carry the weight of the teams failings on his shoulders.

I reckon 2 or 3 games in ISP would do him the world of good.

 

[Cloudsurfer]

What have we got to lose ?

Both carving up in reggies..

Heard of the cap?
Unfortunately you can't debut all the guys you would like to. You can get dispensation to bring a player up if they're not in your top squad but only through injuries usually. Every debut costs (usually in game payments and can be also be a lump sum in there too). You can only do that so many times too. I think that could well be why the Sipleys (one or both) might not be getting a run?
Why do you think Kearney keeps playing the same ones with little variation? His hands are pretty much tied I reckon for this year because of current contracts. Besides that, the ISP team will be training with the others & hopefully learning (maybe that's why those two are killing it atm?).
And no doubt Kearney IS thinking to 2018 imo - the two mentioned have been offered an upgraded contract haven't they - takes care of the above by them both being properly in the top squad??
I reckon he's already sifting the chaff & with some going (or are going to be losing out altogether), a lot remaining in the lower grade, & a couple of new additions (a prop or two would be good) and a 2018 pre-season with a squad more of his making, Kearney will have the Warriors much closer to where they can be.

 

[JJ]

Thurston, DCE, Hunt, Reynolds, Pearce, Taylor, Norman, Cleary and even Townsend are more consistent IMO, and the opinion is stressed

Johnson just isn't a 7 IMO

 

[ZEROMISSTACKLES]

You never hear 'it depends on which Thurston turns up'. Ive heard that about Johnson however. Like Phil and J -Shaun isnt as consistent as Thurston or Cronk, Im seeing that. The reasons being are as jase says. Everyone has a point on this one. Lets just hope Shaun announces that hes being playing bad and is going to play good this week like he did with the Broncos lol.

Anyway, just give Ata a go at half and Shaun a go at fullback. Shaun might score 3 tries and love it.