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Has the era of "Buying a Premiership" gone?

Canard

Immortal
Messages
34,578
I think it has. Recent winners (and Im including Melbourne in this) have had great junior development and talent scouting as a huge part of their success.
The Warriors recent success is great news for the Roosters, Bulldogs, Broncos and Souths future recruitment.
 

MKCS

Juniors
Messages
552
Need a good mix of both I think. This will be looked back on as the Panthers golden age period, most other teams need to have good youth set ups and also recruit well to win.
 

yakstorm

First Grade
Messages
5,417
In a world where third party payments are getting more and more scrutinised and more difficult to exclude as part of the cap, it's a lot harder for a club to just outspend everyone else and build a premiership winning team.

As such clubs need to look at ways of driving down how much the pay players, and generally the two easiest ways to do that are, either be highly successful and have players want to play for you so they claim a Premiership, or have them come through your pathways.

Penrith has the advantage at the moment of having great pathways and also being successful (which means they can keep players for less than market value), hopefully their success sees other clubs with decent catchments (ie. Titans, Wests Tigers, Dragons) try and replicate some of that, instead of throwing around some of the money that they do for players who are past their peak.
 

Mr Angry

Not a Referee
Messages
51,794
Melbourne have no juniors, they just buy Qlders and Kiwis.

Anyways it is a business now and that is the point.

If you can get a true junior and friends to stay for less, good model.

Salary Cap simply dictates you have to, Penrith invest in local junior clubs and bought it that way.

Good for them.
 

Chimp

Bench
Messages
2,554
Need a good mix of both I think. This will be looked back on as the Panthers golden age period, most other teams need to have good youth set ups and also recruit well to win.
This panthers period reminds me very much of Leeds Rhinos in the U.K in the early 2000’s. In the late 90’s Leeds invested heavily in their juniors and won multiple ‘academy’ titles (under 18’s) in a row. Players became used to winning titles as a team and in a Leeds jersey as kids and by 2002/2003 the first batch started to mature into the first team -Sinfield, McGuire, Burrow, Diskin, Calderwood, Walker, Bailey, Jones-Buchanan all came through together and all went on to play for Great Britain. Leeds won their first title in 3 decades in 2004 with a team that had a majority of kids who’d come through their academy system, sprinkled with some older British Pro’s (Barrie McDermott and Keith Senior) and some astute signings (Ali Lauititi, Dave Furner, Marcus Bai)… Leeds went on to win 8 titles and a few challenge cups between 2004 and 2017 as they kept a core of that home grown group together and kept replacing the other players with either new kids that had come through the system and the odd new signing (Gareth Ellis, Jamie Peacock, Danny Buderus). Leeds got a near on 15 year dynasty from that very special group of elite players coming through together.
But as they’ve all now retired, Leeds have fallen away - largely due to the club not having the funds (lots of reasons why - stadium upgrades, flooded training grounds, super league being on its arse) to keep up with the same levels of junior investment and top quality signings.
If Penrith can keep up their clearly successful development pathways, and throw in a few good recruits along the way to cover their short term gaps, then they could be in for a similar dynasty to Leeds, and could keep it up even longer.
 
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Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
65,959
Melbourne have no juniors, they just buy Qlders and Kiwis.

Anyways it is a business now and that is the point.

If you can get a true junior and friends to stay for less, good model.

Salary Cap simply dictates you have to, Penrith invest in local junior clubs and bought it that way.

Good for them.
Not actually true, penrith have said they don’t spend one $ on jnrs beyond their own elite pathways system.
Melbourne do the same.
Only difference is penrith are lucky enough to live in a strong rl area with lots of PI’ers in it so can pick up jnrs from local clubs to develop, where as Storm have to scout nationally and internationally to find kids who they then develop.
at least until the arlc gets its sht together and invests in increasing jnr participation in Victoria.

22 of storms 36 man first team have made their nrl debut with the storm.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
12,168
In a world where third party payments are getting more and more scrutinised and more difficult to exclude as part of the cap, it's a lot harder for a club to just outspend everyone else and build a premiership winning team.

As such clubs need to look at ways of driving down how much the pay players, and generally the two easiest ways to do that are, either be highly successful and have players want to play for you so they claim a Premiership, or have them come through your pathways.

Penrith has the advantage at the moment of having great pathways and also being successful (which means they can keep players for less than market value), hopefully their success sees other clubs with decent catchments (ie. Titans, Wests Tigers, Dragons) try and replicate some of that, instead of throwing around some of the money that they do for players who are past their peak.
Sort of, you have half of that right... its not about keeping them less than market value, that wont happen the longer we keep racking up premierships, every season there has been 2-3 notible NRL grade players moved on and the same amount of rookies too... from2019 saw Maloney, Peachey, Tamou and Mansour leave, then Capewell, Kikau and Api after that, Critta, Leniu and Salmon now, there was also Staines, Naden, and Laurie... theres heaps more and halves getting poached too, Katoa and SoS, and then now Falls, and Cogger leaving.

We identify certain players who can recieve a better contract elsewhere and replace them with a younger guys who are on minimum, then hopefully they kick on.
That should be the blue print for all clubs regardless,
So its not about market value, if they are contracted to this club and resign before the deadline of their current contract technically they dont have a market value, as theyve never hit the market, quick question whats Nathan Clearys, Dylan Edwards or Jerome Luai's market value?
 

yakstorm

First Grade
Messages
5,417
Sort of, you have half of that right... its not about keeping them less than market value, that wont happen the longer we keep racking up premierships, every season there has been 2-3 notible NRL grade players moved on and the same amount of rookies too... from2019 saw Maloney, Peachey, Tamou and Mansour leave, then Capewell, Kikau and Api after that, Critta, Leniu and Salmon now, there was also Staines, Naden, and Laurie... theres heaps more and halves getting poached too, Katoa and SoS, and then now Falls, and Cogger leaving.

We identify certain players who can recieve a better contract elsewhere and replace them with a younger guys who are on minimum, then hopefully they kick on.
That should be the blue print for all clubs regardless,
So its not about market value, if they are contracted to this club and resign before the deadline of their current contract technically they dont have a market value, as theyve never hit the market, quick question whats Nathan Clearys, Dylan Edwards or Jerome Luai's market value?
Fair call, my summary definitely was a gross simplification and didn't give credence to the processes the likes of Penrith has put in place to handle the losses they do see and as well proactive plan for the future.

You're also definitely very right that the superstars of the team don't have a qualified market value. There is definitely a perceived market value for those players, which is perceived higher than what Penrith is paying, though it hasn't been confirmed.

All in all Penrith is doing a great job at maximising their cap.
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
12,168
Fair call, my summary definitely was a gross simplification and didn't give credence to the processes the likes of Penrith has put in place to handle the losses they do see and as well proactive plan for the future.

You're also definitely very right that the superstars of the team don't have a qualified market value. There is definitely a perceived market value for those players, which is perceived higher than what Penrith is paying, though it hasn't been confirmed.

All in all Penrith is doing a great job at maximising their cap.
Agreed, they might never see a market value, as long as penrith wants to keep them... besides the market value is grossly inflated, depending on which position you play, take a look at halfback for instance, clubs are willing to pay overs on guys like moses and hunt, way earlier than they can justify the players peak in that position, when realistically if you send well on an group of commited hard forward pack, you can go cheap on a lachlan ilias for example and still win plenty of games..just like the dolphins this season. its really how the clubs value players and who they are stuck with on past contract renewals like what flano will have to go thru compared to what bennet started with at the dolphins
 

Exsilium

First Grade
Messages
9,568
The salary cap means f**k all when you can keep, promote and run a good NRL squad off the back of an administration where your squad is a decent 1 through 17 and the 18-30 is filled with blokes ready to step up and do the job
 

MugaB

Coach
Messages
12,168
The salary cap means f**k all when you can keep, promote and run a good NRL squad off the back of an administration where your squad is a decent 1 through 17 and the 18-30 is filled with blokes ready to step up and do the job
Its funny but the salary cap isn't there for that reason, its to not blow your budget on players, and the club go under, this whole "player-evening out talent" was a myth, success is cyclical, it wont be long before another team comes up with a different way to win a premiership without being reliant on market buys or local juniors
 

soc123_au

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
18,564
Its funny but the salary cap isn't there for that reason, its to not blow your budget on players, and the club go under, this whole "player-evening out talent" was a myth, success is cyclical, it wont be long before another team comes up with a different way to win a premiership without being reliant on market buys or local juniors
It amazes me how any people don't understand this. The only part about it that is supposed to have anything to do with spreading talent is stopping stockpiling.
 

AlwaysGreen

Immortal
Messages
47,977
Currently only 6 of the current coaches have a premiership to their name.
Bennett 7
Bellamy, Robinson, Cleary 3 each
Hasler 2
Stuart, Flanagan 1.

The most important buy a club can make is a coach, spend big on the right one and you might be able to buy yourself a premiership.
 
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