Has the USARL improved over the past 2+ years?

[south]

I do not want to start a thread to be a sledging match but I am trying to understand where Rugby League in the USA is after 2 full years of seperate East Coast competitions.

What I can come up with is;

USARL started with 8 teams in 2011 but are now down to 6 teams for 2013, three teams have dropped out over the past two years, New Jersey Turnpike Titans, Oneida FC and New Haven Warriors. Rhode Island seems to have put a good youth program in place. They have a 9's tournament in Philly but only a couple of their teams are playing.

AMNRL was left with 6 teams in 2011 but have improved to 7 teams for 2013 with the inclusion of Long Island Saints is it? They also seem to have 3 teams in the Mid West playing a few games, 3 teams in the West playing a few games with a tournament in Vegas and teams in Hawaii playing a few games. They have a 7's tournament in Long Island but I am yet to see what AMNRL teams have entered. They also have qualified the USA Tomahawks to compete in the Rugby League World Cup this year without the USARL's help.

I would like to know where the USARL has improved the game since starting over 2 years ago. I am a big fan of improving any sport but I just don't understand the logic of the breakaway now? Am I missing something???

 

[welshmagpie]

I do not want to start a thread to be a sledging match but I am trying to understand where Rugby League in the USA is after 2 full years of seperate East Coast competitions.

What I can come up with is;

USARL started with 8 teams in 2011 but are now down to 6 teams for 2013, three teams have dropped out over the past two years, New Jersey Turnpike Titans, Oneida FC and New Haven Warriors. Rhode Island seems to have put a good youth program in place. They have a 9's tournament in Philly but only a couple of their teams are playing.

AMNRL was left with 6 teams in 2011 but have improved to 7 teams for 2013 with the inclusion of Long Island Saints is it? They also seem to have 3 teams in the Mid West playing a few games, 3 teams in the West playing a few games with a tournament in Vegas and teams in Hawaii playing a few games. They have a 7's tournament in Long Island but I am yet to see what AMNRL teams have entered. They also have qualified the USA Tomahawks to compete in the Rugby League World Cup this year without the USARL's help.

I would like to know where the USARL has improved the game since starting over 2 years ago. I am a big fan of improving any sport but I just don't understand the logic of the breakaway now? Am I missing something???

The bit in bold is key. Just how true that part is, is the debatable part

 

[south]

The bit in bold is key. Just how true that part is, is the debatable part

What would not be true???

 

[amnrlfan]

more then the AMNRL

 

[80MinuteMan]

USARL - Working Website, Facebook & Twitter

AMNRL - No Working Website, Facebook/Twitter never updated & Brian Lowe writing essentially the same article over and over again via the RLWC2013.com website regarding the Tomahawks.

Advantage, USARL.

You may want to snicker, but during a World Cup season, the AMRNL are completely dropping the ball here. New or casual fans will assume that the USARL are the governing body because they appear to be the most active. Even the USARL team websites are superior when it comes to updated news/info.

Besides "nerd stuff', any new league will have ups and downs during the first 5 seasons when it comes to losing teams. Go look at the inaugural list Major League Soccer teams and compare that to the current clubs. Pick out who's still around and who's long gone. It happens with most niche sports in this country whenever they launch a new league.

The USARL, on the field and off, are the stronger of the two and I imagine that trend will continue as long as the two are separate.

 

[Bronco Rob]

As someone who works for a club in the development area, I look at the processes in place to become a sustainable club and a sustainable competition and that is get the game at a healthy stage at youth level and then it just filters up to the top grade. And hands down it is the USARL who are in front in this area by introducing the game at youth level and now an under 23's comp as well. We have seen the AMNRL operating for nearly 2 decades and not one ounce of youth development has been in place.

Not to mention the lack of presence online in a year of the World Cup, which should be a real chance to build the game and get some exposure for RL, instead there is no website, no facebook activity, perception is everything and from where I'm sitting its not good. Is this what we want to see from a body that runs the game in a nation that is represented in the biggest tournament for Rugby League? We should see the AMNRL officials spruiking the game as much as possible using the WC as a tool for this. There's no transparency, we have no idea who is running the game there, Nui has affiliated himself with Arena Football, we haven't heard a thing from him for months, what is going on?

I commend David Nui for what he's achieved in getting the game up and running in the US but I feel he has dropped the ball by placing his personal agendas in front of the good of the game. And I'm really worried about this necessity to be involved with Rugby Union, we have seen time and time again of what their aim is, to stamp out RL all together.

I am just frustrated as someone who loves the game and sees a lot of potential for the sport in the US but we need these 2 organisations to come together to sort out their differences and put the betterment of the sport in front of any personal agendas! If they love the game then its a no brainer, a combined entity is going to make enormous impacts in the US. I have no affiliation with either side I like many just want to see the game of RL grow in the US and other nations so guys please if you love this sport of Rugby League, get your act together and for the sake of the game, put the game first not personal agendas!

 

[south]

BroncoRob, what development area / club are you with? I like to hear about new areas starting up.

I agree 110% with you about the social media aspect. The AMNRL is dreadful, the USARL is ok, not great with their updates but their streaming of games from time to time is good.

I do not believe the youth is the work of the USARL competition, I believe it is the work of one person, Larry from Rhode Island. If there was a youth program in all the areas that the USARL teams were in then I would say it was huge but for the moment it is a big pat on the back to Larry.

I'm still yet to be convinced that the breakaway 2+ years ago has been a success because there is a website and a small youth competition in Rhode Island.

 

[league13]

Excellent post Rob.

 

[gyallop]

please don't tell me the Broncos do development Bob or any NRL club for that!!
when did a website and social media become the barometer of the success of a sport....plenty of great kids clubs here are failures then...those things only matter to cyber experts whose hands never get dirtied by the real work

Bob if you care for the game do what Illfield Niu and others did spend your own coin go to the USA and lend them your skills!

and why do we Aussies think what works here will work in the USA or any where else in the world....it has taken us 110 years of mistakes to finally get our game in seemingly healthier state so we aren't exactly a shining example for others to follow.

I am confused in the Niu comments spread over several threads by different posters he gets bagged for years (rightly or wrongly) and told he should step back and now it looks like he has he is bagged for stepping back????? isn't the real question why hasn't someone else stepped up??

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

please don't tell me the Broncos do development Bob or any NRL club for that!!
when did a website and social media become the barometer of the success of a sport....plenty of great kids clubs here are failures then...those things only matter to cyber experts whose hands never get dirtied by the real work

Bob if you care for the game do what Illfield Niu and others did spend your own coin go to the USA and lend them your skills!

and why do we Aussies think what works here will work in the USA or any where else in the world....it has taken us 110 years of mistakes to finally get our game in seemingly healthier state so we aren't exactly a shining example for others to follow.

I am confused in the Niu comments spread over several threads by different posters he gets bagged for years (rightly or wrongly) and told he should step back and now it looks like he has he is bagged for stepping back????? isn't the real question why hasn't someone else stepped up??

Maybe because they have been there and done that.

Experience for a start :roll:

 

[Bronco Rob]

BroncoRob, what development area / club are you with? I like to hear about new areas starting up.

I agree 110% with you about the social media aspect. The AMNRL is dreadful, the USARL is ok, not great with their updates but their streaming of games from time to time is good.

I do not believe the youth is the work of the USARL competition, I believe it is the work of one person, Larry from Rhode Island. If there was a youth program in all the areas that the USARL teams were in then I would say it was huge but for the moment it is a big pat on the back to Larry.

I'm still yet to be convinced that the breakaway 2+ years ago has been a success because there is a website and a small youth competition in Rhode Island.

I think its pretty obvious but it is youth development I work in.

The youth development to my knowledge is also being trialled in Philidelphia but it is still under the banner of the USARL and I'm sure they've stated that this template would be used if successful at other USARL clubs.

Your initial post was has the USARL improved and made a comparison to the AMNRL and I gave my opinion on the comparison from a neutral point of view, I'm not sure where I stated that the progress made has made the body successful, my comment was just making a comparison between the progress made between the 2 associations.

please don't tell me the Broncos do development Bob or any NRL club for that!!
when did a website and social media become the barometer of the success of a sport....plenty of great kids clubs here are failures then...those things only matter to cyber experts whose hands never get dirtied by the real work

Bob if you care for the game do what Illfield Niu and others did spend your own coin go to the USA and lend them your skills!

and why do we Aussies think what works here will work in the USA or any where else in the world....it has taken us 110 years of mistakes to finally get our game in seemingly healthier state so we aren't exactly a shining example for others to follow.

I am confused in the Niu comments spread over several threads by different posters he gets bagged for years (rightly or wrongly) and told he should step back and now it looks like he has he is bagged for stepping back????? isn't the real question why hasn't someone else stepped up??

Again gyallop you have not comprehended too well what I have stated, obviously you don't read the posts properly, which is obvious by calling me Bob. Where have I stated that the USARL has been a success because of their website and social media exposure, I merely stated that in my opinion they are in front of the AMNRL in terms of youth development and their social media actually exists which yes is important in running a competition in this day and age.

It doesn't take much intelligence to figure out that a template of building the game up from grassroots level is going to bring success no matter which country. It takes generational change to grow a sport, that's why its imperative to get the game introduced at youth level. They get a taste and if they love the game they keep participating all the way through to senior level. It's just too hard and not sustainable to keep trying to replenish playing stock at senior level and to be a serious competitor you need players who have played since they were young so they have time to learn the game and all the nuances that the game has.

I am not bagging Nui because he has stepped back, it's the whole mystery surrounding the situation and the lack of transparency that has gone on for years, not to mention also the lack of an operating website and the lack of communication. We still haven't heard anything official about his departure, as usual its cloak and dagger stuff.

Do you not think it's a good look that an association looking after a Nation competing in the biggest stage for RL can't even get a website to work or a Facebook site that has seen no activity for 9 months.

I don't think I need to offer my services, they have competent people there, they just need those people in the 2 bodies singing from the same hymnbook and put the game first.

 

[pennpool]

I think the simple answer is no.

With that. Neither league has improved or regressed.

Both the USARL and AMNRL now have 5 legitimate teams. Then there is Baltimore (hopefully will improve) USARL. Dragons, will hopefully produce a legitimate team. (amnrl)

 

[Rampart66]

The USARL does need to do a better job with their website. The website serves as the only way some people have to follow the league. Today, I get on the site expecting to find scores and information about the 9s tournament and nothing. The top story is about the u23 championships taking place this weekend. That took place the weekend of the 18-19th.

There has to be a solution to this problem. They need to either find someone who can update the site more frequently or convert the whole thing to a wordpress site where a group of people have the ability to add updates.

Although, it beats the current AMNRL website.

 

[Rampart66]

One other thing that I'd be curious to know is which teams in either AMNRL or USARL actually sell tickets to their games? Which teams have venues that are even set up to even have more than 2000 spectators at a game?

 

[Craigo]

The USARL does need to do a better job with their website. The website serves as the only way some people have to follow the league. Today, I get on the site expecting to find scores and information about the 9s tournament and nothing. The top story is about the u23 championships taking place this weekend. That took place the weekend of the 18-19th.

There has to be a solution to this problem. They need to either find someone who can update the site more frequently or convert the whole thing to a wordpress site where a group of people have the ability to add updates.

Although, it beats the current AMNRL website.

Couldn't agree more, nothing on Facebook either which is pretty dissapointing...

 

[deal.with.it]

Let's not forget about the facts here.
Both the AMNRL and USARL are run by volunteers who are trying to live the lives outside of rugby league.
The main difference being the USARL are great at PR (or spin) and can put a good spin on anything. And that stems from the business skills of guys like Mik Shammas (Although he has left, he instilled a lot of confidence and skill in the other guys).
We can talk about the 9s being an international event, the U23s, middle school etc.
And we can even call the USARL a SEMI PRO competition.
But at the end of the day, it's a group of volunteers doing their best, with an ammateur competition, with average teams, and average players trying to learn the game.
I love watching the development, but i feel the benchmark was set quite high, and maintaining that level is proving tougher and tougher every year.
More reason why the two comps should reunite.

 

[Rampart66]

Let's not forget about the facts here.
Both the AMNRL and USARL are run by volunteers who are trying to live the lives outside of rugby league.
The main difference being the USARL are great at PR (or spin) and can put a good spin on anything. And that stems from the business skills of guys like Mik Shammas (Although he has left, he instilled a lot of confidence and skill in the other guys).
We can talk about the 9s being an international event, the U23s, middle school etc.
And we can even call the USARL a SEMI PRO competition.
But at the end of the day, it's a group of volunteers doing their best, with an ammateur competition, with average teams, and average players trying to learn the game.
I love watching the development, but i feel the benchmark was set quite high, and maintaining that level is proving tougher and tougher every year.
More reason why the two comps should reunite.

Yes; you're absolutely correct. I can't argue with any of that.

However, does this mean that the teams and leagues shouldn't strive to perfect the off-the-field items?

In a few weeks the USARL will start their regular season and this is what I would like to see:

I'd like a scoreboard with the scores of the three weekend games at the top of the page somewhere. I'd like the standings to be the feature tab and not the upcoming games. Upcoming games could even be part of the weekly scores at the top.

I'd like to see write ups of each game and/or a box score with the scoring. I want to see the names of players and statistics.

I really don't think that's asking a lot. Yes, it's an amateur league. But if rugby league is going to move forward, we need to look at it as a sports business and not a weekend activity. We need to stop cheapening the sport by thinking that an amateur game is best that we can do.

Now, anyone who actually plays for either league, tell me something...

Wouldn't you love to go out on a field in front of thousands of fans, your fight song blaring on the PA system. You look up and see the large LED scoreboard, 16 meter high rugby goal posts, the stands filled with people in replica jerseys.

Wouldn't it be great?

It's not as difficult to obtain that as you imagine. You just have to shift your paradigm and think differently.

Yes. I'm from Pittsburgh and we're working on some big plans right now, but I gotta tell you...every time I see pictures of an American rugby game and players are wearing mismatched uniforms or playing at a venue without spectator seating, I wonder why I'm even bothering. We could have a great thing in Pittsburgh. Our amateur women's football team just sold out a game (over 4,000 fans). Think about that - 4,000 fans x $8 per ticket. $32,000 goes a long way for team's budget. But we have to want better!

-end of rant-

 

[Craigo]

My local, totally amateur, footy side update their FB page after games and training. It takes 1 volunteer about 15 minutes to up date. Just a thought...

 

[deal.with.it]

Rampart,

I agree completely. I don't think its too much to ask for.

What I'm trying to say is:

The USARL starting very strong, with updated website, social media, streaming matches, Atlantic Cup club world challenge thingo, imports, better facilities, minimum standards, youth focus etc.

But, as with any business after the establishment and initial growth phase ends, it really takes a substantial effort to continue to see growth or sustainability.
If a bit of the enthusiasm subsides, we'll see a declining business, rather than growth.
And we are seeing that with Oneida (Boston 2) and New Haven leaving, amongst other happenings.

 

[Fatwing15]

Let's not forget about the facts here.
Both the AMNRL and USARL are run by volunteers who are trying to live the lives outside of rugby league.
The main difference being the USARL are great at PR (or spin) and can put a good spin on anything. And that stems from the business skills of guys like Mik Shammas (Although he has left, he instilled a lot of confidence and skill in the other guys).
We can talk about the 9s being an international event, the U23s, middle school etc.
And we can even call the USARL a SEMI PRO competition.
But at the end of the day, it's a group of volunteers doing their best, with an ammateur competition, with average teams, and average players trying to learn the game.
I love watching the development, but i feel the benchmark was set quite high, and maintaining that level is proving tougher and tougher every year.
More reason why the two comps should reunite.

You are pretty much spot on here. The leagues are pretty equal. Main advantage The USARL has is that their average website and average social media presence is way beyond the AMNRL. Other than that, It's pretty much individuals or individual teams that are taking nice steps forward, not the actual league itself. Jacksonville is still the bench mark. And the RIR are doing a really good job with the Youth. I don't think the USARL has anything to do with those successes. Jacksonville was doing just as well in the AMNRL, they may even be hurting because of the split. I would assume they would sell more tickets to a game against The Knights, Bulls or Cats as opposed to teams like Baltimore or Oneida. I think RIR would be having the same success if the leagues were to merge.

I think the USARL 9's was pretty similar to War at the Shore from an experience stand point. Both are a good time. Neither attract a ton of fans. 9's costs were way higher than WAR... but not sure if that really translated to a significantly better product.

It seems like both leagues are run in a similar manner, with comparable amount of "transparency". One small group really calls the shots in both leagues. It is just unfortunate that there are enough good teams in this country to run a really successful, competitive and exciting competition. But there are just a few egos that are getting in the way. Every team would benefit from a merger. The game would benefit from merger.

What is the negative consequence of a merger? Even if it is merged as is, with out either league giving up any concessions or making any demands?