HDDVD officially canned: Toshiba bails

[Danish]

right...

it's also a pain in the arse for anyone who would like to create a backup of said media. i have many problems with the way copyright law is worded and enforced, particularly is regards to media formats.

:lol:


Yes.... "back up" movies. I'm sure that is exactly what you are using it for.

You must have terabytes of storage space if you intend on backing up dozens of Blu Ray discs worth of information.....

it's also a pain in the arse for anyone who likes to import movies/tv series/whatever. this is something that i, and a lot of people i know would take great advantage of... but because we can't purchase it on our shores we can't view the material unless we turn to piracy.

Blame the people distributing the movies and TV shows you want to watch for that. It is hardly Sony's problem that they want to stagger the release of various programmes (which, btw, can all be downloaded legally anyway).

just because it's never been a hindrance to you, doesn't mean it is not a hindrance to other law abiding people. frequently i have had no other choice but to break the law if i wanted to watch a certain movie, tv series, etc. it doesn't have to be this way.

No, it doesnt.

You could very easily jump on line and pay for your download instead of torrenting it.

Yet you choose to break the law and then cry about being "forced" to do so.

you see, intellectual property laws are old and have struggled to adapt with the times. it is now possible to own the same movie on how many different formats? 5? 10? and each time they re-release the same sh*t, they charge you again and again and again for the same interllectual property. realistically once you have bought the rights to consume that IP.. you should be able to view it on any media, be it solid state, magnetic disk drive, optical disk, whatever. it's just double/triple/quadruple/quintuple/etc dipping the pot. the law already recognizes that when you buy a DVD, the plastic the movie is on is worthless.. you are buying the right to view it. the law needs to take the extra steps.

You are buying the right to view it in the format it is presented on. It also states quite clearly in the contract that you are not allowed to make any copies of that IP, so no, I dont see why you should be allowed to make infinite copies of it onto multiple formats.

why shouldn't mrs. average joe be able to make a copy of the kids favourite movie so the original doesn't get scratched?

Because it is against the law, basically.

why should i not be able to legally purchase a movie from overseas that cannot be bought in australia and watch it on my dvd/bluray/whatever player?

You can. Just buy a region free DVD player (most are these days)

why am i not allowed to store a movie that i have bought with my hard earned on my hard drive, so if i lose or destroy my original, i can make more?

If you want to "store" the movie, why don't you just purchase them online and download them instead? Much easier and a much greater variety.

the laws can be changed to accomodate all these things - and if they were.. i guarentee there would be a substantial decrease in piracy, but woe is me... the movie studios wont be able to make anymore money by re-releasing star wars again.

Not without accomodating pirates, they cant.

i implore you to do your own research regarding DRM and copyright laws in regards to digital media.

I have, many times.

Its all just a bunch of hogwash either started by people who want to break the law, or used as an excuse by people who want to justify breaking the law.

 

[Danish]

i forgot to address this too:

it isn't any different at all when you are talking motives. $$$

What do you think drives technological advancement?


If there wasn't money to be made the entertainment industry would not exist. Have a look at how technologically "advanced" eastern europe was doing the communist days and tell me how much better off we would be without capitalism driving innovation.

another thing.. how is the electric car a bandaid solution? even if it is - a bandaid solution is a bit better than no solution at all.

How is electricity made, perverse?

 

[Simo]

I imagine that firmware upgrades are readily available for earlier model Blu Ray players and would fix any such problems without a hitch.

If not, then the manufacturer of the player is at fault, not Sony.

No firmware cannot fix it and samsing is currently being taken to court by someone who bought the earlier play (doubt he will win but the point stands).

And it is Sonys fault as they keep changing the standard to suit the DRM needs, whereas like DVD and HD DVD the standard was fixed and anything that wished to display the DVD logo had to comply with those standards and as such play on any DVD player.

Not true with blu ray.

 

[Danish]

Like I said, manufacturer is at fault then.


My PS3 doesnt have any problems with playing blu rays, so I can only assume that the firmware updates that it does every month or so fix the problem that Samsung is having right now.

updating the standard seems like a logical step to keep hackers on their toes. Samsung will learn from their stupid mistake and build future machines to allow firmware patches from now on.

:edit: upon investigating the case further, Samsung do, in fact, allow their players to have firmware upgrades done to them to keep inline with new protocols. The player in question was defective and did not allow them to play many blu ray discs. So it has nothing to do with sony or blu ray at all, simply a fault on Samsungs part.

 

[Dean Moriarty]

another example - do you really think it's technology holding back the electric car?

No. It's the same people that made Steve Guttenberg a star.

 

[perverse]

How is electricity made, perverse?

i'm not bothering with the rest of your piece because it's absolute dribble. you assume that the material i wish to view is available by legal downloads etc. it isn't, plain and simple. actually the number of assumptions you make in your posts is quite staggering. just because you're thoughts are limited to mainstream media doesn't mean that there are those of us who aren't. the laws need revision by people who actually know what they are talking about.

this one made me lol though. how is electricity made? are you kidding?

it's made in any number of ways Danish. Nuclear, Fossil Fuels, Wind, Solar... but the fact of the matter is that burning fossil fuels in our cars is not helping the situation. by shifting to cleaner energy production models (which.. sadly is also a long way off for the same reasons the electric car is nowhere to be seen) it would effectively eliminate a vast majority of greenhouse gases that we produce. why must i type up an entire essay to explain this terribly basic concept?

in fact to post all my thoughts on these issues i'd need to devote a full weekend to writing it... which i'm simply not going to do for the sake of this discussion. it's not worth my time.

as for capitalism driving innovation - you're 100% correct. it's a bit of an unfortunate paradox really. the fact is we haven't.. or even can't conceive a better model than capitalism. i don't pretend to have all the answers regarding the subject.. i'm just pointing out the flaws and where it is failing us. i think it's a cruel shame that advancement of the human race isn't incentive enough to drive innovation and invention.. the truth is we've run out of things to aspire to.. so we aspire for wealth. there are other things that have driven invention and innovation.. the 2 major ones off the top of my head being war and the space race. in my personal opinion we (as the human race, collectively) need bigger goals... something to strive for. i can go deeper down that rabbit hole if you like... but i don't really have time to cover it at the moment.

-edit fixed numerous spelling mistakes.

 

[perverse]

No. It's the same people that made Steve Guttenberg a star.

not far off imo. i think it's pretty naive to think that we - the general public - are privvy to what goes on behind the scenes.

i know that it's perfectly scientifically feasible to be doing a lot more than we currently do about the environment. the fact that money is a huge factor in slowing our efforts to stop destroying the only planet we live on is tragic in itself.

imagine that... we're on the brink of irrepairably ruining our planet... and the main reason is greed.

 

[Danish]

i'm not bothering with the rest of your piece because it's absolute dribble. you assume that the material i wish to view is available by legal downloads etc. it isn't, plain and simple. actually the number of assumptions you make in your posts is quite staggering. just because you're thoughts are limited to mainstream media doesn't mean that there are those of us who aren't. the laws need revision by people who actually know what they are talking about.

What are these mythical unavailable titles you speak of perverse??

I'd love to know just what tv shows and movies you are unable to either buy in australia or download from the net. I haven't come across one personally, and I have quite a varied taste in movies and music.

this one made me lol though. how is electricity made? are you kidding?

it's made in any number of ways Danish. Nuclear, Fossil Fuels, Wind, Solar... but the fact of the matter is that burning fossil fuels in our cars is not helping the situation. by shifting to cleaner energy production models (which.. sadly is also a long way off for the same reasons the electric car is nowhere to be seen) it would effectively eliminate a vast majority of greenhosue gases that we produce. why must i type up an entire essay to explain this terribly basic concept?

I don't struggle with the concept at all.

Wind? Solar?? :lol:

Electricity production is currently done almost entirely though the burning of fossil fuel (those pipe dreams you mentioned above are useless at present). It is the greatest producer of greenhouse gases in the world today. Switching all road transport to run off of electricity is simply moving the problem out of site and out of mind.

So, yes the electric car is a band aid solution that is massivle flawed in dozens of ways (charging times, range, working life of the batteries, disposal of dangerous metals, high production costs, they have it all). Its a dud of the highest order.

in fact to post all my thoughts on these issues i'd need to devote a full weekend to writing it... which i'm simply not going to do for the sake of this discussion. it's not worth my time.

Thats ok, I doubt it would be worth my time to read it.

as for capitilism driving innovation - you're 100% correct. it's a bit of an unfortunate paradox really. the fact is we haven't.. or even can't conceive a better model than capitalism. i don't pretend to have all the answers regarding the subject.. i'm just pointing out the flaws and where it is failing us. i think it's a cruel shame that advancement of the human race isn't incentive enough to drive innovation and invention.. the truth is we've run out of things to aspire to.. so we aspire for wealth. there are other things that have driven invention and innovation.. the 2 major ones off the top of my head being war and the space race. in my personal opinion we (as the human race, collectively) need bigger goals... something to strive for. i can go deeper down that rabbit hole if you like... but i don't really have time to cover it at the moment.

I would like to live in a world where all the latest technology is available to me for free or at low cost too, but then again I only think that way because I am not lucky enough to be able to afford it.

The space race and war certainly pushed innovation along, however most of the technologies brought about by these things certainly didn't become cheaply available to the public for a long time after (if at all). Manufacturing and aviation being the obvious exceptions to that rule, of course (Telecommunications as well if you include the cold war).

 

[Misanthrope]

The industry just shoots itself in the foot with its obsession with region locking DVDs. The reason people resort to piracy is the fact that DVDs are often grossly over-priced, particularly in Australia.

If it were possible to buy them from another country that doesn't have such a mark-up, I'm sure it would be a more commonly used avenue. As it stands, people just jump on uTorrent or Kazaa and download whatever it is they want. So rather than getting a little return from their Chinese or Japanese sale, the industry gets zero profit from the illegally pirated movies.

Region locking has no point other than to agitate users who are too stupid to download VLC Player to bypass it.

 

[perverse]

I'd love to know just what tv shows and movies you are unable to either buy in australia or download from the net. I haven't come across one personally, and I have quite a varied taste in movies and music.

then you haven't looked very hard mate. special edition releases of movies, certain anime, other rare releases/alternate releases of TV shows, music DVD's for hard to find bands... the list goes on. sometimes certain releases are made available to us over time (sometimes very long periods of time)... sometimes they aren't at all.

i acknowledge that wind and solar are useless at present (in fact even mentioned so, not in as many words)... but the question remains, WHY? do you honestly believe that we are not scientifically and technically capable?

and i've just realised we've had this discussion on copyright before.. and you were made to look like a fool then too: http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=176104

and you STILL haven't answered to me why it is illegal for me to backup a DVD that could very easily be destroyed? why can't mr and mrs law abiding citizin not make a VHS copy of Shrek 51 for the kids to watch in their bedroom? THE LAWS ARE COMPLETELY FLAWED! it's ignorant that you can sit there and wave your finger at us "criminals" who believe that we should have rights. ESPECIALLY when in previous threads you have admitted to piracy yourself. you sir are a hypocrite.

 

[Danish]

then you haven't looked very hard mate. special edition releases of movies, certain anime, other rare releases/alternate releases of TV shows, music DVD's for hard to find bands... the list goes on. sometimes certain releases are made available to us over time (sometimes very long periods of time)... sometimes they aren't at all.

???

Aren't all these things available on DVD? And aren't region-free DVD players widely available? Or is there some sort of blu ray only anime that I am not aware of?

As for special editions of movies.... the are special edition because they are in limited supply. Complaining about not being able to purchase something that is by definition limited in its production seems quite pointless to me.

Once blu ray replaces DVD as the main format for distributing then you will see the DRM taken out of the equation. It happened to DVD, and it will happen again.

i acknowledge that wind and solar are useless at present (in fact even mentioned so, not in as many words)... but the question remains, WHY? do you honestly believe that we are not scientifically and technically capable?

In a word? Yes.

Why do you think that we are?

and i've just realised we've had this discussion on copyright before.. and you were made to look like a fool then too: http://forums.leagueunlimited.com/showthread.php?t=176104

Why?

Because I wasn't aware that backing up a DVD had been made illegal??

As I stated in that thread, I was happy to download pirated stuff to play on my PSP so clearly I am not fussed about that sort of activity. I don't try and kid myself into believing that I am forced to do so, however.

and you STILL haven't answered to me why it is illegal for me to backup a DVD that could very easily be destroyed? why can't mr and mrs law abiding citizin not make a VHS copy of Shrek 51 for the kids to watch in their bedroom?

Because it is against the terms of purchase, essentially.

The fact you don't agree with it means nothing to me. You are paying a film studio for the right to keep watch their IP on the single format that you chose to purchase it on. If you find that particular format to be inconvenient, then choose another one (downloading being the best, as you can then access it through a media centre)

THE LAWS ARE COMPLETELY FLAWED! it's ignorant that you can sit there and wave your finger at us "criminals" who believe that we should have rights. ESPECIALLY when in previous threads you have admitted to piracy yourself. you sir are a hypocrite.

I have not once in this thread said that I do not rip DVDs to my HD, download movies/tv shows, or anything else of that sort.

I am simply stating that it is the film studio's right to enforce the copyright laws which protect their product. I don't see this as an inconvenience to me, or an infringement on my rights. I see it as a perfectly reasonable way to protect their copyrighted material.

I have also stated that anyone who claims DRM "forces" them into piracy are just trying to excuse their law breaking.

I know that by ripping my dvd's to my computer to use with media centre, or downloading songs of limewire or tv shows through torrenting is illegal, and if I do partake in these activities and get caught in the process, then I will cop it on the chin rather than try and piss and moan about how much of a victim I am to corporate greed.