What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Henry Paul

Eagleneil

Juniors
Messages
4
Interesting to see the rah-rahs picking "english" Henry in the squad after only 80 minutes! Heres a thought, how about 15 league players playing onion (union) for three weeks, could they oust the regulars? Bet they'd pick them!
Eagleneil.
 

Ozbash2

Juniors
Messages
327
Could be looked at 2 ways,I spose.
Either the Poms are really bad,and are clutching at straws bringing 'enry in,or he is really good,and look out Aussies !!
 
L

legend

Guest
I agree EagleNeil, I think any prominent league player would be picked in their respective country's union side. It is a proven fact league players are far superior athletes than the lanky beanpole bottom feeding union gits that play the inferior game.
 
M

Marcus

Guest
You must remember Paul was one of the top if not THE top league player from the ESL. Obviously making the English squad after just ONE game is very surprising but I guess the guy must be naturally gifted. I personally haven't seen him play rugby, but I can't wait to see him against the almighty Wallabies.
 

G@v

Juniors
Messages
925
Good to seeyou Eagleneil.
emthup.gif


I agree that any RL back would probably walk into the current England rah rah set-up. They are trying to make out that Harris and HP are exeptions to the rule. How wrong and short sighted they are.

The forwards would be more of an ask. ATM there is still a disadvantage for a RL forward switching to union. A few years down the track though, and we'll probably see League forwards infiltrating the inferior code.

If I were a union fan right now, I'd be bloody embarrassed!
 

Eagleneil

Juniors
Messages
4
Hello Gav,
Hope you are OK. You're probably right that the forwards would have a harder time, I'm thinking of the forward returning to Brisbane after a spell in the super 12's who name escapes me at the moment! If players want to play onion for the "challenge", I say let them go, it's probably a hell of a lot easier way of making a living, and lets face it, if someone offered to pay you mega-wages for one third of the workload you were doing before, would anyone turn them down?
Eagleneil
 
K

Kiwi

Guest
Henry Paul obviously only switched codes for the money, and I hope he never comes back to league, to turn his back on his own country to play rugby for england...what a tosser
 
L

legend

Guest
EagleNeil, Brad Thorn is the player you were thinking of.

Cheers
 
Messages
4,446
Yeah, i agree, its all about the $$$. Its pretty sad, Paul giving up on his country just to play for the brits. I fail to see how Onionites can laugh at the RLWC and how players got selected for their respective countries when they are allowing things like this through! Player payments are on the sprial now, i saw a couple of wks ago plans to improve the club rah rah comp. This included player payments! How the hell could clubs finance this when they get bugger all revenue? I see Randwick was quite angry at this, as they had wanted to remain amateur for as long as possible.
I think some ppl in RU headquarters are stepping into shoes that are two big for them. Despite all the crap that splurt out, the fact is that Union is predominantly followed only in the Eastern Suburbs and North Shore in Sydney. It hardly rates a blip throughout the rest of the city. If they think they can keep making big purchases (ie:Rogers) and making big and expensive expansion plans, i think its only a matter of time before the 'kingdom without foundations' collapses and they slap a big cross on John O'Neills name (again)....
By the way, yesterday in the paper they had an article that referred to how 40 so called 'amateur' rah rah players and officals being paid to promote the game. I couldn't recall this event for the life of me, does anyone have more details about what happened?
MFC.
 
Messages
377
Thanks for the link, Gav. I'm only just beginning to understand how ignorant some of these union types are. Check this story out - http://news.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby_union/story.jsp?story=102529. It's some of the funniest shit that I've ever read. They're comparing Harris, after one game of union, to Pele and Ali. I can only imagine what they'd be saying if Lockyer of Johns ever switched codes.

Having said that, the article does have some good points about the undeniable fact that league produces superior all-around footballers than union. Still, Lawrence Dallaglio makes the classic comment, "It will be interesting to see how Iestyn fares against the big-hitters in union"!
 

G@v

Juniors
Messages
925
MM, I think the author of that article 'Ken Jones' is the ex soccer player turned journo who played for Tottenham back in the 1950's.

Yeah, someone pointed out that Dallaglio classic earlier in the week over at TRL. He's obviously unaware that although the boy Iestyn aint a big bruiser who loves the rough stuff, he is used to real big hits, he's had to face the likes of Paul Anderson over the past few years. Then again, he'll probably be able to use his fleet of foot to dodge thus lumbering statues that are all too common in the less complex code.
 
Messages
19
Check out this comment by wannabe coach eddie jones in todays telegraph " You would target the guys who can threaten the line but at the same time be able to use their passing skills" , " And there's not many players in rugby league that have that ability to do both". Now he's talking about targeting Andrew Johns as a onion player but is the guy friggin' stupid. Is he trying to say most great current league players can either only threaten the line or pass? It's time the kangaroos played the wallabies in onion only . Not only would we threaten their line we'd destroy their credibility. Oh , the wallaby passing skills would get a work out as they threw the ball like a hot potato to avoid even the smallest kangaroo (including preston campbell if he were picked),
cheers, Global 13.
 
Messages
377
Andrew Johns, Brett Kimmorley, Matt Orford, Craig Gower, Brad Fittler, Braith Anasta, Trent Barrett, Scott Hill, Adam Dykes, , Darren Lockyer... that's just off the top of my head. These are all Australian league players who not only can threaten the line and pass, but also can kick and have great vision and playmaking ability. On the other hand, the only Australian union player that I can think of who is a complete player is Stephen Larkham. You could possibly throw Andrew Walker in, but we all know where he learnt his senior football.

I used to think that Eddie Jones had a bit of respect for rugby league, but, after that comment, he's lost me. He is either trying to put down league by speaking shit, or completely stupid. Whatever the case, he's made himself out to be a joke.
 
E

Edwahu

Guest
Now that Jones is national coach he probably has to toe the ARU line and bag league at every opportunity. Its well documented that the ARU has stated they want league dead and they run their orginization accordingly. Not surprising to see the spin-doctoring that is trying to make out that these guys were both colossuses of the game when they were playing league. They were both good players but no where near the best, especially based on recent history. Henry Paul was a decent player at international level only when he was unknown by the Aussies. Once he was found out he was, quite frankly, crap. Its just as well for him he decided not to come to the NRL because he probably wouldve been playing behind Braith Anasta before long.
 
Messages
4,446
Good to see that Onion has returned to their off season tactics of having its journos talk about everything bar there own code! Yesterdays RU section in the paper was completely devoted to stories about RL and its players. What a joke, they did the same thing all last year, the only way they can grab a headline is through running off league....
They cannot generate publicity. Sorry, but this is the truth. Even with their bledisloe cup victories, the publicity that they gain always looks forced and not natural.Does anyone else agree with this?? It always looks so sanitised, there seems to be little genuine passion. Even in their victory speeches, Eales has always come off like an ARU puppet trying to tow the company line.
And as for Eddie Jones, he shouldn't fall in the trap of bagging league players. He is one of the few in onion who has come out and said he appreciates the code of league, he shouldnt become another mouthpiece for the ARU who have the sole objective of KO'ing RL.
MFC.
 

G@v

Juniors
Messages
925
<table cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 width=370> <tbody> <tr> <td valign=top align=middle> From this morning's Sunday Times Deadly Paul set to call the shots
</td></tr> <tr> <td width=355>AFTER Henry Paul had made the obligatory feel-good statement about his inclusion in the England rugby union squad for the autumn internationals barely three weeks since joining Gloucester from Bradford Bulls, he said he had not expected the international call so soon. He added that he wasn't sure what would happen from here. Phil Larder is sure. In fact, he harbours no doubts that England fans are in for a treat when Paul pulls on the shirt with the red rose. He believes that the New Zealand-born midfielder will make the England back-line a far more dangerous prospect because of a basic instinct to beat his man. And there are few rugby men in Britain better placed to address the million-pound question over Paul's ability to make the cross-code transition than Larder, the England defence coach and former Great Britain rugby league coach. "Paul has tremendous evasive skills, in the same way that Iestyn Harris and Jason Robinson have," said Larder. "This is because rugby league defences became so sophisticated that it was almost impossible to break them down. The way to beat them was not so much by teamwork as through individual runners, which put a premium on players with brilliant footwork, like Paul. It's obviously an innate ability, but it can also be developed. The more you do it, the better you get, and in league they are put through training exercises which involve beating two men in succession. "In northern hemisphere union, attack has, as a general rule, relied too much on passing wide. The All Black backs are so dangerous because they put the emphasis on beating the man first, and passing second. Paul is the same. He is more direct and confrontational than most union backs. The challenge for England will be to get support players to run the correct lines both inside and outside him." Larder points out that there is a further dividend in that Paul is not just a runner but an all-round footballer: "It's rare in rugby league to find a kicker of such great accuracy, and that will be a significant help to him in union." Larder's faith in Paul stems from having taken a keen interest in his progress since he arrived in England eight years ago with the Junior Kiwis (New Zealand's Under-19 rugby league side) and then signed for Wakefield before finding fame with Wigan and Bradford. "I first saw him play in a curtain-raiser before a Great Britain versus New Zealand Test, and he was head and shoulders above everybody else. What makes a champion in any sport is mental strength, and Paul, Harris and Robinson have it." Larder believes that in Paul's case mental strength is matched by the physical prowess more than hinted at by his Popeye-like torso. "I'd be surprised if he doesn't emerge as the most powerful of the England backs, and, while he is not known for outright pace over a long sprint, he is explosive over the first 10m." However, despite Larder's resounding praise for Paul's virtuoso talents, there are many who wonder whether the adulation which has greeted Paul's code switch will hold up under the scrutiny of the far tougher tests for club and country that await him in union. Even before an auspicious debut for Gloucester, which saw him score 28 points in last weekend's European Shield rout of Caerphilly, expectations had been fuelled by the runaway success of his former team-mate Robinson in playing for the Lions and England, all within a year of leaving Wigan. The most obvious difference is that the demands made of Robinson as a strike runner from wing or full-back are miles apart from those which will be made of Paul at inside-centre or fly-half, the positions for which he has been earmarked by Clive Woodward, the England manager. Robinson's role is essentially that of a finisher rather than a tactical general, and his blistering acceleration and jack-knife changes of direction are ready-made for the job. By contrast, as a prospective midfield mastermind, Paul, 27, will have to get to grips with a whole raft of technical and tactical requirements which are markedly different from those in rugby league. Even though law changes in both codes have brought them closer together, the doubters point out that union is still tactically a far more complex game and that decision-making is a potential minefield. For instance, instead of invariably kicking after the fifth tackle as in rugby league, Paul may have to clear his lines with a flanker all over him the first time he gets the ball. He will have to protect the ball in the tackle, or it will be ripped off him. He might be called upon to defend through 16 phases rather than six, and still keep his defensive alignment. If that wasn't enough to be getting on with, he will be required to boss the game from the most congested area of the field. Paul Turner, the Gloucester backs coach and former Wales fly-half, gives the doubters short shrift: "He's a playmaker and a gamebreaker, who makes things happen. What he was good at in league, he will be good at in union, because these days the codes are similar, with everyone behind the scrum multi-functional. There's a zeal about him which is contagious. He's learning our game, but it won't take long, because he's so switched on." Larder believes there are similar cross-overs in defensive technique that Paul will turn to his benefit: "Few people in union realise that in league the tackler's main aim is to put the ball carrier on his back to slow the play-the-ball. That's why top league players like Paul try to stay on their knees - clubs even employ wrestlers to help them with technique." Paul confirmed that he had been helped by the similarities between the codes: "The style we are trying to play is very rugby league-esque, drawing players in and going wide. What I hope to bring is an awareness of space around me, a bit of spontaneity, and doing things against the grain." However, when asked what he thought of the hostile reaction on websites from some England fans to him donning the white jersey only four months after playing rugby league for New Zealand, there was no jinking about. "My grandfather is proud to be English. If it's all right for him to be in the Navy putting his body on the line for his country, it's okay for me to play rugby for England." If Paul proves to be as direct in an England shirt, it's a safe bet that those doubters will soon become converts. </td></tr></tbody></table>
 
Messages
377
The usual old rhetoric about union being more complex than league. While in some areas it may be true, why is union constantly copying league's attacking and defensive strategies? Surely this must be because league is more advanced in both areas.

I was reading the BBC site the other day when I came across a great post which shows league's side of the complexity debate. Here it is -

"...I'm just sick of hearing that it [union] is hard to master, is complex and too tactical compared to league. For complex, read restrictive and obscure. For tactical, read kicking for territory. Real tactics are the ability to unlock defences using guile and ingenuity. The very attributes that are not stifled by league laws.
Nick Cartwright, England"

This guy has managed to articulate what I haven't been able to. The general structure of league may be seen as being simple, but when it comes to play-making and ball-playing, league is a morestrategic game. I honestly believe that the often mocked "five tackles and a kick" structure of league allows a play-maker a far greater chance to manipulate a game through strategy and guile. Union, in comparison, is a very fragmented game, and the ball is rarely held for a long period of time, making it harder for a play-maker to leave his mark on a match. For all the so-called strategy of deciding whether to pass, run or kick, there is less opportunity, in union,to apply tactics to the most important part of the game - the time when the ball is in play. League, on the other hand, is 80 minutes of two sides trying to break down each other's defences. It's rather ironic when you think about it.
 

Bryce

Juniors
Messages
181
In Leaue, we have only 6 tackles to get the bal 100m and over the line. In Union, you have 40 minutes, and all you hve to do is push the ruck forward untill somone realises the ball has passed the goal line, and so ends up falling on it.

The most skilful side in either code is Parramatta. Each player can run with the ball in front of them at full speed, pass either side, either alone or in heavy traffic, most can kick with either foot, and they can sniff a try in any situatoin. The second half scramble in the GF proved that. In union, their greatest attacking weapon is a penalty kick.

However, the real issue is tjhis. Union will continue to take silly pot shots like this one while League remains in the state that it is. Until we get leadership (and not a pack of bumbling idiots), union will run unabated in the propaganda war.
 

Latest posts

Top