How much credit can Gus Gould take for Penrith’s great season?

[muzby]

I’d give Gus credit if it all happened within his 5 year plan..


But it didn’t..

 

[Eatons Hill Dragon]

Did Griffin have input? I think he might have had more involvement then he’s given credit for?
Griffin blooded a lot of the young talent.

Agree with this.
Hook should be very proud knowing a lot of this years Panthers squad he worked with over the past few years and with some handed them there nrl debut.
Let’s all see if he can do the same for the Saints and in a few years time he gets full credit for our success both short and long term.

 

[blacksafake]

Was talking to a friend today who was employed by the panthers for years, especially during the coaching merry go round.

He thinks Hook deserves some credit for starting the ball rolling & it’s a known fact in the club that Gould was always trying to interfere in coaching the team. Hook always pushed back which led to his sacking by Gould.
Also said Hook is a real nice bloke.

Matt Elliott’s name came up & he’s apparently a bit out there but extremely good technically & big on data.
FWIW.

 

[Gareth67]

I believe that Gould did have the best interests of the Panthers at heart when he originally began his much vaunted ‘ 5 year plan ‘ . Unfortunately he simply was unable to fulfill his original objective through any number of reasons , the main being that it took all facets of the team to be operating at peak efficiency for his plan to succeed.

The same could be said of , wait for it - our own Mary . He truly believed that he could bring out the best in the Dragons , but in his case it was beyond his own capabilities , the man was treading water in a vast ocean of inability .

But back to Gould there would seem that his skills in interpersonal relationships was somewhat lacking and also the fact that you employ a coach to do just that - coach the team . He should had allowed the coach at that time Griffin to do his job and stayed completely out of that area .

Yet again he wanted Ivan Cleary as the new head coach to ensure that Nathan would remain a Panther . ( by so doing Gould actually destabilized 2 clubs - the Panthers and also the Tigers ) So therefore Griffin had to be given the flick , nasty rumors begin to do the rounds and into the mouths of the ever so innocent media hacks who publish completely incorrect information about the outgoing Griffin .

In short Gould should had kept his nose out of the coaching side of the Panthers and honored the Panthers agreement with Griffin so as to allow the man to do the job that he was hired to do unhindered .

Gould’s mark - 4 out of 10 .

 

[possm]

I believe that Gould did have the best interests of the Panthers at heart when he originally began his much vaunted ‘ 5 year plan ‘ . Unfortunately he simply was unable to fulfill his original objective through any number of reasons , the main being that it took all facets of the team to be operating at peak efficiency for his plan to succeed.

The same could be said of , wait for it - our own Mary . He truly believed that he could bring out the best in the Dragons , but in his case it was beyond his own capabilities , the man was treading water in a vast ocean of inability .

But back to Gould there would seem that his skills in interpersonal relationships was somewhat lacking and also the fact that you employ a coach to do just that - coach the team . He should had allowed the coach at that time Griffin to do his job and stayed completely out of that area .

Yet again he wanted Ivan Cleary as the new head coach to ensure that Nathan would remain a Panther . ( by so doing Gould actually destabilized 2 clubs - the Panthers and also the Tigers ) So therefore Griffin had to be given the flick , nasty rumors begin to do the rounds and into the mouths of the ever so innocent media hacks who publish completely incorrect information about the outgoing Griffin .

In short Gould should had kept his nose out of the coaching side of the Panthers and honored the Panthers agreement with Griffin so as to allow the man to do the job that he was hired to do unhindered .

Gould’s mark - 4 out of 10 .

I think it was all much simpler Gareth67. Gould had the right plan, the plan was executed properly but he was one year out when it comes to the maturity of his young first grade squad.

Gould is a big mouth, blows his own trumpet all the time, and was taking credit out loud even before success on the field had come to fruition. He did not want Griffin or Cleary as head coach. He always had Bennett at the forefront of his mind and actually struck an agreement with Bennett prior to being shown the door. In fact this dispute - Cleary v Bennett - for head coach was the undoing of Gus at Penrith.

When it comes to Mary, I don't agree. I believe Mary always new that he was not quite up to it but did believe if he stayed head coach long enough, he would get there. He was very convincing to his close circle at Board level.

If Mary had any pride and only wanted the best for the Dragons, he would have resigned long ago noting that he need more development to be a successful head coach. Instead he dragged the Club to the depths and held out until he lost the support of his mates on the Board.

 

[Gareth67]

I think it was all much simpler Gareth67. Gould had the right plan, the plan was executed properly but he was one year out when it comes to the maturity of his young first grade squad.

Gould is a big mouth, blows his own trumpet all the time, and was taking credit out loud even before success on the field had come to fruition. He did not want Griffin or Cleary as head coach. He always had Bennett at the forefront of his mind and actually struck an agreement with Bennett prior to being shown the door. In fact this dispute - Cleary v Bennett - for head coach was the undoing of Gus at Penrith.

When it comes to Mary, I don't agree. I believe Mary always new that he was not quite up to it but did believe if he stayed head coach long enough, he would get there. He was very convincing to his close circle at Board level.

If Mary had any pride and only wanted the best for the Dragons, he would have resigned long ago noting that he need more development to be a successful head coach. Instead he dragged the Club to the depths and held out until he lost the support of his mates on the Board.

Yes I must say that you are correct about Mary and I had forgotten that Bennett was also in Gould’s mind for the job prior to Ivan Cleary .

I hope that you don’t take this the wrong way possum , however that was one of your better posts old mate , some very good points and it was factual .

 

[Forbes Creek Dragons]

It’s all Hook, can’t wait for next year.

 

[RedVDave]

None all the credit goes to Griffin who utilises juniors.

 

[T-Boon]

Gould will be preparing for the GF coverage a few stories about the Penrith juniors background he recruited. He told 2 that I heard for the semi that were really just an ego trip for him. He wants everyone to know that he is to be given the credit. The best thing the Panthers did was get rid of him.

 

[Slackboy72]

Did Gould sign Korisau?
Cause he's the difference.

 

[BLM01]

Did Gould sign Korisau?
Cause he's the difference.

No Gould released him to go to Manly

 

[Slippery Morris]

Funny how Gould wanted Bennet and had a fallout with Griffin because his coaching methods were old school. Isn't Bennett's coaching methods old school?

Gould really hates Griffin so Hook must have really pi$$ed him off big time.

I have also heard Hook is a nice bloke. My mate ran into him and he spoke to him for ages and though he was really polite and the way he spoke about league was very technical. Lets wait and see.

 

[Forbes Creek Dragons]

Did Gould sign Korisau?
Cause he's the difference.

Gun, well ahead of Cook or even Smith this year for mine.

 

[possm]

Yes I must say that you are correct about Mary and I had forgotten that Bennett was also in Gould’s mind for the job prior to Ivan Cleary .

I hope that you don’t take this the wrong way possum , however that was one of your better posts old mate , some very good points and it was factual .

I love the Saints and read/listen to a lot of info about our team/club. Sometimes I can't remember where I read, saw or heard some info and can't be bothered racking my failing mind to find out. I feel sure that if people really want to know they will find it by searching Google.

I have a good circle of family and friends who all support the Saints and so some info comes from this area. On this occasion I knew I had read the info so searched and found it. 'Lucky me'.

I don't lie because I don't need to lie but then again like I said, sometimes I just can't remember where I get some info from.

 

[Gareth67]

I love the Saints and read/listen to a lot of info about our team/club. Sometimes I can't remember where I read, saw or heard some info and can't be bothered racking my failing mind to find out. I feel sure that if people really want to know they will find it by searching Google.

I have a good circle of family and friends who all support the Saints and so some info comes from this area. On this occasion I knew I had read the info so searched and found it. 'Lucky me'.

I don't lie because I don't need to lie but then again like I said, sometimes I just can't remember where I get some info from.

Good on you possum , I am sure that no one believes that you have been lying , but perhaps exaggerate to a degree . As to your passion for the Saints /Dragons it is good to see that it still continues unabated , more so at our age .

 

[possm]

Good on you possum , I am sure that no one believes that you have been lying , but perhaps exaggerate to a degree . As to your passion for the Saints /Dragons it is good to see that it still continues unabated , more so at our age .

Thanks Gareth67! I always look forward to reading your posts. We both have seen the best and worst over the years and it is the mark of a true fan that you have remained loyal and on this forum, an informative and respected member.

 

[Gareth67]

Thanks Gareth67! I always look forward to reading your posts. We both have seen the best and worst over the years and it is the mark of a true fan that you have remained loyal and on this forum, an informative and respected member.

Most appreciated possum , as you have said - the best and the worst , may we both now witness the beginning of a bright future for our Dragons under Griffin and company .

 

[chrisD]

Did Gould sign Korisau?
Cause he's the difference.

We were playing Wallace on one leg and when he gave out had no plan at hooker moving forward. Not until Cleary's second year back when we signed Api back was the massive obvious problem sorted.

Griffin/Gould created our f**ked up hooker situation between them.

And with regards to the topic Gould does deserve some credit. Kikau for example was all him, and no small amount of other players were largely his doing.

 

[soc123_au]

Do some of you guys even Rugby League? To suggest Gus deserves no credit is laughable. I guess some of it can be forgiven as I assume most have you havent followed Penrith particularly closely.

When Gus arrived we were a steaming mess. Elliott was quite open that he really had no time or interest for Junior development. As far as he was concerned it was someone elses problem to deliver him first grade ready players. The 3 main gun juniors he was given & debuted were all talented, but could never get it together at Penrith. Jennings, Coote & Graham, funnily enough all 3 won premierships elsewhere. Our 20's sides at the time were dripping with good players, but they could never manage to achieve much & not many kicked on. We did finish 2nd in 2010, but bowed out meekly in straight sets. At no time in 2010 were we serious contenders.

Enter Gus. He pissed Elliott off quick smart & got rid of the players that were entrenched in the shit culture we had. He then bought players that wearn't world beaters, but had good attitudes & came from successful systems. He then layed out a plan to develop from within & got things started on the academy & the western pathways.

Very quickly after that the lower grades started getting results. 20's premierships in 2013 & 2015. Matt's & Ball sides also started doing well. A prelim for 2014 in a season where we had a ridiculous injury toll was the first sign that the NRL side was getting somewhere. More injuries in 2015 derailed what started off as a promising season (something you lot know all too well) Then Gus imo f**ked up thinking Ivan was tired. Maybe he was, he had done a hell of a lot of hard work to dig us out of the massive hole we were in. All this took place when Hook probably didn't even know where Penrith was.
Enter Hook in 2016. Hook walked into a place where the 20's had just won the comp, Reserve grade was flying & a better than decent NRL roster. The main thing Hook did was get the players supremely fit. We won a lot of games purely off the back of being fitter at the back end of games. The game plans were largely non existent apart from "run hard, tackle hard" given the fitness of the players this worked ok. To his credit Hook also had a good knack for knowing when to bring players into the NRL. I can't off the top of my head think of any that looked out of their depth in the big show. But to suggest Hook gets all the credit is just bullshit, there were a few years of effort involved before he arrived.

2017 was probably the time Gus should have been phased out. He had put everything in place that needed to happen, so there wasn't much to do. So he started meddling with shit he should't have. How much that messed with Hook's chances we will never know. It was pretty common knowledge Hook wanted total control & wouldn't admit he needed help. His game plans are never going to win a comp.

It wasn't Gus who got rid of Hook & bought Ivan back, it was the board. By this stage it was obvious Gus had run his race. But to suggest he didn't play a huge part in the rise is pure fantasy. As is Hook saying he is responsible for our pathways, they were well advanced when he arrived. I'm sure he added some positive things to what was happening, so kudos for that.

I'm very interested to see how you guys go with Hook & Elliott in the next few years. It has the potential to be either a master stroke or an unmitigated disaster. If they play off each others strengths then it will be fine, if a power struggle develops it will be a mess. Same with how Gus & Brown go at the Warriors, if Gus sticks to the brief, the Warriors will be a powerhouse by the end of the next decade. I'd bet my house on it.

 

[redv13]

Do some of you guys even Rugby League? To suggest Gus deserves no credit is laughable. I guess some of it can be forgiven as I assume most have you havent followed Penrith particularly closely.

When Gus arrived we were a steaming mess. Elliott was quite open that he really had no time or interest for Junior development. As far as he was concerned it was someone elses problem to deliver him first grade ready players. The 3 main gun juniors he was given & debuted were all talented, but could never get it together at Penrith. Jennings, Coote & Graham, funnily enough all 3 won premierships elsewhere. Our 20's sides at the time were dripping with good players, but they could never manage to achieve much & not many kicked on. We did finish 2nd in 2010, but bowed out meekly in straight sets. At no time in 2010 were we serious contenders.

Enter Gus. He pissed Elliott off quick smart & got rid of the players that were entrenched in the shit culture we had. He then bought players that wearn't world beaters, but had good attitudes & came from successful systems. He then layed out a plan to develop from within & got things started on the academy & the western pathways.

Very quickly after that the lower grades started getting results. 20's premierships in 2013 & 2015. Matt's & Ball sides also started doing well. A prelim for 2014 in a season where we had a ridiculous injury toll was the first sign that the NRL side was getting somewhere. More injuries in 2015 derailed what started off as a promising season (something you lot know all too well) Then Gus imo f**ked up thinking Ivan was tired. Maybe he was, he had done a hell of a lot of hard work to dig us out of the massive hole we were in. All this took place when Hook probably didn't even know where Penrith was.
Enter Hook in 2016. Hook walked into a place where the 20's had just won the comp, Reserve grade was flying & a better than decent NRL roster. The main thing Hook did was get the players supremely fit. We won a lot of games purely off the back of being fitter at the back end of games. The game plans were largely non existent apart from "run hard, tackle hard" given the fitness of the players this worked ok. To his credit Hook also had a good knack for knowing when to bring players into the NRL. I can't off the top of my head think of any that looked out of their depth in the big show. But to suggest Hook gets all the credit is just bullshit, there were a few years of effort involved before he arrived.

2017 was probably the time Gus should have been phased out. He had put everything in place that needed to happen, so there wasn't much to do. So he started meddling with shit he should't have. How much that messed with Hook's chances we will never know. It was pretty common knowledge Hook wanted total control & wouldn't admit he needed help. His game plans are never going to win a comp.

It wasn't Gus who got rid of Hook & bought Ivan back, it was the board. By this stage it was obvious Gus had run his race. But to suggest he didn't play a huge part in the rise is pure fantasy. As is Hook saying he is responsible for our pathways, they were well advanced when he arrived. I'm sure he added some positive things to what was happening, so kudos for that.

I'm very interested to see how you guys go with Hook & Elliott in the next few years. It has the potential to be either a master stroke or an unmitigated disaster. If they play off each others strengths then it will be fine, if a power struggle develops it will be a mess. Same with how Gus & Brown go at the Warriors, if Gus sticks to the brief, the Warriors will be a powerhouse by the end of the next decade. I'd bet my house on it.

Nice breakdown. I’m more than happy to give Griffin a crack along with Elliot and Gentle. After the rubbish we have been made to swallow since 2012 id even be happy with Dicky Knee and Ozzie Ostrich to run the show. Anything but the last stooge that thought he was a coach