I Feel the Need, the Need for Speed

[Rob Dragon]

Look, I would like to withdraw all of my commets wrt Hornby and the forward pack and our lack of speed and predicatble attack. Lets go with the same game plan that won us 4 of the last 15 games. Hang on a moment...don't tell me that Reece Simmons has been let go! What a disaster. Lets get Tony Priddle and Neil Teirney back, and what about Noel Goldthorpe. Some of the responses on this post show exactly the same sort of backward thinking that the Tigers were married too after 2005. Guys, we were bloody ordinary from rounds 12 onward. No matter what the reason, the game has moved on, and our attack is pedestrian. The comments suggesting that "we were fantastic up to SOO" were not seeing the same games as me even during that period. The attack is shot. If you do not get second phase possession going you get slaughtered. For mine, it is great seeing these young halves of Manly and the Warriors playing this weekend. I might pop down to the Corrimal retriement village next week and see if we can get Johnny Jansen back to play next year. Very brave decisions need to be made to move forward. And here is another thought...I love Wayne Bennett, but I reckon the game might be passing him by as well. I cannot wait for 2012 and I really hope Steve Price is given his head and allowed a few backward steps to propel us forward!

 

[grouch]

Sarcasm is not an argument

 

[Breathingfire]

IMO we showed a lot of character this year and put up a very good fight but just didn't have what it takes to win a premiership this year. We lacked that other gear that clubs like the Tigers, Manly, Melbourne etc can go to. Our attack needed to evolve and we were constantly out muscled in the forwards but stayed in games due to our commitment and attitude. Take the Brisbane semi for example. They played all over us but we were in with a shot at the siren. If we could have dominated in the forwards the game wouldn't have gone to extra time. We would have put them to bed. We missed Costigan, Smith and Saffy. Anyone who doesn't think we missed them is a f**king moron. Take two internationals and a great bench player out of any team and you'll see a difference. Its logic...Go back and watch all the games at the business end of the season last year and Nev and Jez constantly stood out and took us forward. If you are going to play a grinding style of football you need tough uncompromising forwards and we lacked a couple of them this year. As for the 10 wins at the start of the year, well I put that down to attitude, commitment and the fact that the rest of the pack were finding their feet (eg. Tigers, Manly, Melbourne). They found another gear and we didn't. Anyway, Gould and Sterlo agree with me and one was an out and out champion and the other is a premiership winning coach so i'll take their opinions over a couple of lounge chair coaches.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

speed between the ears is more important for halves then speed running.
that is where we are missing. Hornby not being a natural half is very mechanical and cant think outside the square...

some of the greatest halves havent been that fast...
Lewis, Sterling, Langer ... none of them were quick at all.

IMO the greatest half back we ever had was Billy Smith...not real quick (although no sloach either) but had a lot of talent upstairs.....probaly helped that we had unbelievable forwards year after year after year.....

 

[grouch]

As for the 10 wins at the start of the year, well I put that down to attitude, commitment and the fact that the rest of the pack were finding their feet (eg. Tigers, Manly, Melbourne). They found another gear and we didn't.

You sure? The Tigers got as far as we did in the finals. Melbourne one week further and were less than convincing in either game. As for Manly - we flogged them, and that was AFTER the Origin period began!

Anyway, Gould and Sterlo agree with me and one was an out and out champion and the other is a premiership winning coach so i'll take their opinions over a couple of lounge chair coaches.

Did they? I recall Gould in his column stating Saints would win the comp the week the finals began. Sterlo the same - I recall him on the Sunday Footy Show the week before tipping us to make the GF. There were others too... Greg Alexander said repeatedly the Dragons 2011 were superior to 2010. These are their opinions.

 

[LOYAL DRAGON]

lots of chat on this forum about building up the forward pack, adding mongrel etc. In the words of the great bob fulton..."you can't coach speed". Our pack is adequate, we need freakish speed. Moltzen has got it, soward has got it, i understand this kid evander cummins has got it as well. Every time kevin locke gets the ball for the warriors he is a worry. So is sean johnson. So is gerrard beale for the bronco's. The absolute number one priority is a half back, almost at any cost, and speed. If we do not address this we will killed by the warriors, bronco's, tigers etc. It is pretty obvious if you have been watching the last few months. If you can hold your own in the forwards and then have spped around the ruck, you are in the contest. The old left hand sweep needs to be consigned to the dustbin!

been saying that for years, while hornby has done a great job for us we do need a speedy ball playing half.

 

[to_ddeath]

Look, I would like to withdraw all of my commets wrt Hornby and the forward pack and our lack of speed and predicatble attack. Lets go with the same game plan that won us 4 of the last 15 games. Hang on a moment...don't tell me that Reece Simmons has been let go! What a disaster. Lets get Tony Priddle and Neil Teirney back, and what about Noel Goldthorpe. Some of the responses on this post show exactly the same sort of backward thinking that the Tigers were married too after 2005. Guys, we were bloody ordinary from rounds 12 onward. No matter what the reason, the game has moved on, and our attack is pedestrian. The comments suggesting that "we were fantastic up to SOO" were not seeing the same games as me even during that period. The attack is shot. If you do not get second phase possession going you get slaughtered. For mine, it is great seeing these young halves of Manly and the Warriors playing this weekend. I might pop down to the Corrimal retriement village next week and see if we can get Johnny Jansen back to play next year. Very brave decisions need to be made to move forward. And here is another thought...I love Wayne Bennett, but I reckon the game might be passing him by as well. I cannot wait for 2012 and I really hope Steve Price is given his head and allowed a few backward steps to propel us forward!

Agree with almost everything you've posted in this topic. What a surprise when we used lots of 2nd phase in the 2nd half v Brisbane last week, we get within shitting distance of beating the Donkeys....Time to evolve & move forward. The post-origin part of this year up til the last 2 rounds reminded me of us post-Melbourne win in very late 2009 pre finals, same kind of issues in attack and intensity except this run of losses was far longer & more frustrating to watch. The fact that the 2 most inexperienced halves in over half a century are playing in the GF exemplifies our need for speed as you put it......Let's hope this is what Pricey will be driving at.


T.

 

[Minh]

I'm willing to back Hornby his experience will be very important over the next couple of years, i think you will find that guys like Moltzen, King and Kyle stanley will take a lot of the pressure off him. We just need to get more second phase play through the forwards I think this is the best way to bend the defensive line and make it lose shape. i am so happy we have Moltzen.

 

[TheRev]

It was defence losing us those games in the back half of the year... we leaked like a sieve, breaking our confidence... plus we were flat out of form, the same personnel in the 1st half of 2011 was some of the best football we have played, which people are conveniently forgetting.

Anyway for me its the grass is always greener problem for a lot of fans.. yes of course it would be nice to have a $600,000 halfback like Benji or Cronk, but our side is pretty damn handy (you cant have everything.. not for more than a year or so before the cap bites you). The last thing I want to do it go back to the side of old that would put on 20 points, and leak 30... I want to be that safe defensive team first, and the rest comes on top.

 

[Barry's Beath]

Wasnt it Jack Gibson who said "you cant coach speed"?

 

[Mr Red]

Huh? This makes no sense. What do those three players have to do with "lacking the creativity to go to a plan B"? Are you implying that the only reason the Dragons won the premiership in 2010 is because the predictable left side attack was overcome by Smith Saffy and Costigan??? Weird. Never mind that in the big games (prelim final and grand final) the attacking focus shifted (deliberately, mind you - tactics play out over an entire season) to the opposite side. The left side scored zero tries in those games.

As mentioned earlier, this team was perfectly fine until Origin. Arguably superior to the 2010 version throughout the first half of the year. It was a major disruption. Is it a co-incidence that the two grand finalists happen to be two of the teams that were minimally affected by Origin?

using your logic then Canberra and Gold coast would have made the grand final then, as their teams were minimally affected by origin..
Origin was half a season ago - to use that as an excuse is a joke. Players like prior and hunt were letting the team down and were playing well below their best week in week out... they werent even involved in origin

manly had guys like King, Hopoate, Watmough and Glen Stewart in origin and they actually started to play better after being involved in origin..
we lacked the grunt that the foward pack has last season, and another year on Hornby's aging legs started to find him out.. simple as that

 

[_Johnsy]

It was obvious that teams had "worked" out how to defend against us more effectively, that's no secret.

I am sure it will be tinkered with and evolve. it will be a work in progress. So long as we make the real competition (semis) next year that's when we need to have all cylinders firing ala the warriors.

In Steve we trust.

 

[Father Ted]

There's no doubt we missed the mongrel three but just as importantly we seemed to forget that we had a potent right side attack in Gasnier and Nightingale . We had a ton of heart but we were a bit softer in the forwards and a bit less clever in our attack this year . Next year I think we might be more equipped in the forwards with all these signings but I am a little cincerned with our halves and fullback spots

 

[Firey_Dragon]

agree with your point re:needing more grunt in the forwards.
but looking back over the season our attack became very predictable, and in matches where the defensive patterns were up to our usual sweeping left play our halves lacked the creativity to go to a "plan B"..
the game plan only worked last season because we had the forwards to carry it off.. Smith, Saffy, Costigan.
the same game plan this season didnt work without the right troops to carry it out...

If you look at much of our 2nd half of the season, very rarely did we actually get any chances to mount pressure in the opposition 20.

Our forward pack was one of the worst in the comp for the 2nd half of the season. We gave up pretty close to the most meters, and made little as well. Doesn't matter how good your halves are if you only give them one or two sets a half at close range.

Our gameplan is reliant on good field position, something we failed to attain time and time again. Any game where our forwards actually went well we had no problems scoring points.

 

[Mattc]

I agree with Firey.
When our starting props went off, we lost it big time. made no ground.
Guys like Green and Prior just had no punch through the line.
When Weyman and Hunt came back on, it was too late.
Hopefully some of the new signings can rectify this.

 

[TheRev]

If you look at much of our 2nd half of the season, very rarely did we actually get any chances to mount pressure in the opposition 20.

Our forward pack was one of the worst in the comp for the 2nd half of the season. We gave up pretty close to the most meters, and made little as well. Doesn't matter how good your halves are if you only give them one or two sets a half at close range.

Our gameplan is reliant on good field position, something we failed to attain time and time again. Any game where our forwards actually went well we had no problems scoring points.

^ This x 1000, we made breaks deluxe, especially through Cooper and Gasnier/Flo, and Creagh before he had to become a prop, but we never mounted pressure, we threw the ball away after a break, we leaked points which constantly put us back under pressure. People are putting the cart before the horse.

At no point did I watch us attacking the opposition goal-line, and think 'oh noes how will we break them?', but I was dissapointed with our inability to get return sets and sustain pressure.

 

[Mr Red]

If you look at much of our 2nd half of the season, very rarely did we actually get any chances to mount pressure in the opposition 20.

Our forward pack was one of the worst in the comp for the 2nd half of the season. We gave up pretty close to the most meters, and made little as well. Doesn't matter how good your halves are if you only give them one or two sets a half at close range.

Our gameplan is reliant on good field position, something we failed to attain time and time again. Any game where our forwards actually went well we had no problems scoring points.

agree... our problems were a combination of our forwards being dominated and lack of creativity in the halves.

 

[Minh]

Also a lot of teams are taking pressure off the forwards by moving the ball wide early this usually eats up plenty of metres. They also have very clever dummy half play like Cameron Smith who takes the ball up to the line before using good select passing as well. Can't wait to get a full season of better dummy half play through King, Rein or even Fein if he can recapture form. I think King might be the man.

 

[Drain the Dragon]

I love Wayne Bennett, but I reckon the game might be passing him by as well.

Let's hope so, he's on the other side now!

Anyway, for a coach who is past it, he sure filled our trophy cabinet up!

 

[Minh]

Let's hope so, he's on the other side now!

Anyway, for a coach who is past it, he sure filled our trophy cabinet up!

I'm interested to see what kind of team Bennett will produce next year and I hope we have the wood on them like Brisbane have had on us recently.