I hope this is fake news

[BennyV]

Not classed as the others?

Irrespective of current stipends (which NONE of us on this forums are privy to), the following paradigm is self explanatory.

That is, Morris....international, Merrin....international, Dugan.....international, Marshall.....ex-international, Packer....international.

I see your 'attempt' at a reply with a rebuttal of my own.

I fixed it for you, considering that Marshall's last game for NZ came 4 years before we opted to not re-sign him, AND he was dropped from the NZ team before he left to RU.

So we have.

Morris/Merrin/Dugan/Packer - International reps
Marshall - Ex-rep, 4 years ago. To put that in perspective, Akuila Uate, Dave Shillington and Dave Taylor all lined up against him, I wouldnt be losing sleep over them in 2017 either.

Morris/Merrin/Dugan/Packer - Received more money elsewhere
Marshall - now a 4th string half

Morris/Merrin/Dugan/Packer - made significant offers from the club (allegedly)
Marshall - publicly known that his offer was removed from the table after he considered the club to have low balled him.

Morris/Merrin - struggled to replace them and the team suffered immediately after their departure (and I predict we will suffer with the loss of Packer and Dugan unless we can replace them.
Marshall - was replaced with our 4th string half from last year and the team has improved.

The point you attempted to make was that under Mary, we would continue to lose our top players. While I dont necessarily disagree with you, the point I was making is that Marshall does not fall into the class of the others at the time we 'lost' him.

 

[Crush]

What will you do if we don't finish top 6 and don't win a game in the semis?
After all, with the position we currently hold, getting players back and all the things that people are praising Mary about, top 6 should be a given and top 4 actually expected and we should go very deep into September if not October.
No doubt if we don't achieve that outcome but finish anywhere above where we finished last year some people will say that we have improved and considering we were expected to finish bottom 2 or with the spoon we have over achieved.
So many posters reference our outcomes against what the press decree should eventuate rather than the expectations that fans have as an acceptable outcome i.e. regularly playing finals footy and having a real shot at the premiership.

If we dont finish top 6 and dont win a game in the finals and injuries have played no part then I will admit that would be a disappointment.
My expectations before the season were that dragons played an entertaining brand of footy week in week out and were competitive every game. If they continue to do that I will be happy although I must admit I have somewhat higher expectations now given our start.
Anything could happen I suppose. I don't rule out any scenario. I certainly don't make statements like Mary could never win a comp. Why not?
I think we are looking very good for a top 6 finish. What will I do if we dont? Look forward to next year I guess...

 

[Crush]

First place is all that counts. Number of premierships won is what is asked, not how many times a club made the finals.

Sure you can't win every year but we must be seen to be trying to win each year. For 2018 we had a great potential to be a winner in 2018 until we let Packer and Dugan go. Now Lafai, Mann and Milne are also at risk of the Millward magic.

After Hutch was injured we needed to buy a half for this season. I mean we let go Benji and bought no one to replace hm. We put our faith in a rookie who had done nothing in first grade to justify such faith. Yes we could not have anticipated the injury to Hutch however, to then rely on McCrone for the full season is a statement indicating that 2018 rather than 2017 is the year we compete for a GF.

But we are sitting high on the ladder with McCrone at 7. Your point makes no sense here.
You talk about knee jerk reactions, you wanted dragons to BUY another half for 2017 once Hutch was injured even though Hunt had been bought for 2018?
They went with McCrone and guess what? Hes doing a pretty decent job.
Sorry Possm this point is a mess.
A POSSM MESS

 

[Old Timer]

If we dont finish top 6 and dont win a game in the finals and injuries have played no part then I will admit that would be a disappointment.
My expectations before the season were that dragons played an entertaining brand of footy week in week out and were competitive every game. If they continue to do that I will be happy although I must admit I have somewhat higher expectations now given our start.
Anything could happen I suppose. I don't rule out any scenario. I certainly don't make statements like Mary could never win a comp. Why not?
I think we are looking very good for a top 6 finish. What will I do if we dont? Look forward to next year I guess...

Sensible post Crush and I agree with almost all of it but the real issue is if we fall off the perch this season (not injury induced) then why would we want Mary for 3 more years especially if our roster is any weakened from what it is right now?
The club has a situation by which it can wait in respect of re signing him why not avail yourself of that opportunity?

 

[MilanDragon]

First place is all that counts. Number of premierships won is what is asked, not how many times a club made the finals.

Sure you can't win every year but we must be seen to be trying to win each year. For 2018 we had a great potential to be a winner in 2018 until we let Packer and Dugan go. Now Lafai, Mann and Milne are also at risk of the Millward magic.

After Hutch was injured we needed to buy a half for this season. I mean we let go Benji and bought no one to replace hm. We put our faith in a rookie who had done nothing in first grade to justify such faith. Yes we could not have anticipated the injury to Hutch however, to then rely on McCrone for the full season is a statement indicating that 2018 rather than 2017 is the year we compete for a GF.

Buy a half for just the season of 2017?? Given we had hunt coming in 2018.

So what type of half would we have got? Another journeyman and this forum would've went into meltdown. Actually considering where we currently sit and how we have gone so far the club was correct to rely on what we have within our own ranks.

Secondly, Hutch would be on our books, so where in the salary cap do we fit someone in, or how were we in January going to take someone out of our top 25 that was already signed?

 

[Saint_JimmyG]

I fixed it for you, considering that Marshall's last game for NZ came 4 years before we opted to not re-sign him, AND he was dropped from the NZ team before he left to RU.

So we have.

Morris/Merrin/Dugan/Packer - International reps
Marshall - Ex-rep, 4 years ago. To put that in perspective, Akuila Uate, Dave Shillington and Dave Taylor all lined up against him, I wouldnt be losing sleep over them in 2017 either.

Morris/Merrin/Dugan/Packer - Received more money elsewhere
Marshall - now a 4th string half

Morris/Merrin/Dugan/Packer - made significant offers from the club (allegedly)
Marshall - publicly known that his offer was removed from the table after he considered the club to have low balled him.

Morris/Merrin - struggled to replace them and the team suffered immediately after their departure (and I predict we will suffer with the loss of Packer and Dugan unless we can replace them.
Marshall - was replaced with our 4th string half from last year and the team has improved.

The point you attempted to make was that under Mary, we would continue to lose our top players. While I dont necessarily disagree with you, the point I was making is that Marshall does not fall into the class of the others at the time we 'lost' him.

I didn't '"attempt" anything, however, what you have done is amend your earlier post with a bit of subjectivity thrown in for good measure.

While I agree that Morris and Packer have left for reasons already stated - or will go at season's end in the case of the latter - I repudiate the same circumstances apply for Merrin and Dugan, as I believe these two received offers from SGI that were commensurate to the contracts they received from Penrith and Cronulla respectively.

And, I reckon both left not necessarily for monetary gain, but rather, as a 'protest' against management (including the coach).

Marshall, a fourth string half? I'm assuming you mean at Brisbane? Given Wayne Bennett's pronouncement that "he (Benji) won't be playing at halfback", I'm unsure if would even be considered that far down the pecking order at that particular club.

I do know one thing though; I'd much rather have him at Saints than McCrone.

 

[CarrrnDragons]

So experts.. Who should coach if not Mary based on who is available...I see plenty of not Mary but limited on the who should replace him..

 

[BennyV]

I didn't '"attempt" anything, however, what you have done is amend your earlier post with a bit of subjectivity thrown in for good measure.

While I agree that Morris and Packer have left - or will go at season's end in the case of the latter - I repudiate the same circumstances apply for Merrin and Dugan, as I believe these two received offers from SGI that were commensurate to the contracts they received from Penrith and Cronulla respectively.

And, I reckon both left not necessarily for monetary gain, but rather, as a 'protest' against management (including the coach).

Marshall, a fourth string half? I'm assuming you mean at Brisbane? Given Wayne Bennett's pronouncement that "he (Benji) won't be playing at halfback", I'm unsure if would even be considered that far down the pecking order at that particular club.

I do know one thing though; I'd much rather have him at Saints than McCrone.

My earlier post was that 'one of these things is not like the other' - with the underlying message being that Marshall is nowhere near the loss of the other 4.

I havent then 'amended' anything - merely elaborated on why this is the case.

And yes, I'm not denying (nor condoning) the argument of why the other 4 left, rather that they were still wanted and would have been very handy to have held onto. Marshall, not so much.

Fourth string half at Brisbane, yes - regardless of what Wayne has stated, his only game for the Bronco's this season is in the halves, and so far Hunt, Milford and Nikorima have been picked over him.

Whether or not a random fan would prefer him over McCrone is irrelevant. THe fact is that the club pulled the offer, we played horribly with him in the team at halfback and currently the role McCrone is playing suits him and the team (especially Widdop) and the team is now playing better in part to McCrone playing that role. Unfortunately, Benji is unable to play that role (understated, support Widdop, defend hard, direct play as needed).

 

[possm]

But we are sitting high on the ladder with McCrone at 7. Your point makes no sense here.
You talk about knee jerk reactions, you wanted dragons to BUY another half for 2017 once Hutch was injured even though Hunt had been bought for 2018?
They went with McCrone and guess what? Hes doing a pretty decent job.
Sorry Possm this point is a mess.
A POSSM MESS

At least you have taken in the message about the Millward mess.

We ahre currently in 5th place however, with a decent halfback we could be in first or second place. With a decent halfback those 3 straight losses could have been 3 wins.

With different decisions from Mary, I say the same our losses could have been wins.

With a top line coach, our losses could have been wins.

It's a mess.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

But we are sitting high on the ladder with McCrone at 7. Your point makes no sense here.
You talk about knee jerk reactions, you wanted dragons to BUY another half for 2017 once Hutch was injured even though Hunt had been bought for 2018?
They went with McCrone and guess what? Hes doing a pretty decent job.
Sorry Possm this point is a mess.
A POSSM MESS

Don't agree
We were leading the comp a few weeks ago and are now 5th. We have no kicking game and you can say what you like about McCrone but we are losing games because we don't have a game manager.
Both the Easts and Cronulla games were poorly executed even though our game stats were vastly superior.
McCrone is only viable if Widopp is pulling the strings.
No one is questioning his heart and commitment but if you are objective, we are compromising big time.

 

[hazzbeen]

Dennis and Crush , both of you have different points and both make sense , but we really dont know which way its going . For me a good season would be a top 4 finish or if we just make the 8 we would have to play deep into the finals . Really I dont know much until the season ends .....

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Dennis and Crush , both of you have different points and both make sense , but we really dont know which way its going . For me a good season would be a top 4 finish or if we just make the 8 we would have to play deep into the finals . Really I dont know much until the season ends .....

Even more reason not to be handing out contract extensions to Mary just yet.

 

[hazzbeen]

Even more reason not to be handing out contract extensions to Mary just yet.

My thoughts exactly ....

 

[denis preston]

Buy a half for just the season of 2017?? Given we had hunt coming in 2018.

So what type of half would we have got? Another journeyman and this forum would've went into meltdown. Actually considering where we currently sit and how we have gone so far the club was correct to rely on what we have within our own ranks.

Secondly, Hutch would be on our books, so where in the salary cap do we fit someone in, or how were we in January going to take someone out of our top 25 that was already signed?

And don't forget Milan , the poster who has criticized our recruitment manager daily has advocated this as well as signing up Lafai , Dugan , Mann , Milne & Packer before this season has started.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

And don't forget Milan , the poster who has criticized our recruitment manager daily has advocated this as well as signing up Lafai , Dugan , Mann , Milne & Packer before this season has started.

Milan - forget buying a half back for a season.
What about Nona? He sitting is under our noses, has a great kicking game, can kick goals and could have done a job for us. That would have given us a more rounded team especially now that Widdop is injured.
We are severely hampered without a decent kicking game.
The reason it isn't more glaringly evident is because our go forward compensates and masks the problem to a certain degree.
It's just a real shame Hutch got injured, he would have filled the void perfectly.

 

[possm]

Milan - forget buying a half back for a season.
What about Nona? He sitting is under our noses, has a great kicking game, can kick goals and could have done a job for us. That would have given us a more rounded team especially now that Widdop is injured.
We are severely hampered without a decent kicking game.
The reason it isn't more glaringly evident is because our go forward compensates and masks the problem to a certain degree.
It's just a real shame Hutch got injured, he would have filled the void perfectly.

Obviously Nona is not performing to the satisfaction of the coaching staff. But I would've given him a shot alongside Mann last week with McCrone as the safety pin on the bench.

 

[Dennis Papaioannou]

Obviously Nona is not performing to the satisfaction of the coaching staff. But I would've given him a shot alongside Mann last week with McCrone as the safety pin on the bench.

I am sure they can rationalize why they don't pick him but his level of motivation must be at an all time low.
Look at Milne, he wasn't playing particularly well before getting a call up but he has grown another leg now that he is playing in FG.
I reckon the same will happen with Nona.
Great idea to use McCrone as a safety valve off the bench.
I have a lot of time for JD and he was a big fan of Nona's which was ultimately vindicated.

 

[gregstar]

Strong words gregstar.
Funny how most people around the game like the players, ex-players, commentators are mostly saying Mary deserves to be re-signed yet some fans call the potential re-signing a pathetic rabble.
I guess you aren't a fan?

really... so i should toe the line?

because players, ex-players, commentators are mostly saying he deserves it? i should fall into line & say he deserves it as well? that would make me fan?

round 12 dude.

i'll say he deserves it if we've gone deep into september or into october.

until then, 2016 is his resumé.

 

[denis preston]

We still won 11 in a row against 9 other clubs with equal opportunity on the terms you just outlined for that period.

Tells me we had great club management pal.

In today's world we are not even in the top 10 of club management - our leaders have no idea how to manage a fiscal Budget, no clue how to leverage TPA's, no idea how to retain 2 internationals who wanted to stay, rushing to resign a coach after a few wins and inept to identify and risk blooding talent like Jack Bird. Only Parra, Newcastle and maybe Titans are below us in front office despair.

They are excellent at jobs for the boys, ruining a once prosperous leagues club, pushing out new management that show talent and challenge the status quo (why do outside talent all leave after 1 year?) and sticking there heads in the sand.

Wake up - our club management is absolutely woeful.

Never said it was great but you can't use an example of what happened 50 to 60 years ago as a template to how we should conduct things now. Other clubs had equal opportunity ? Don't think so , Our Leagues Club was a unbelievable money spinner for the football club that no other side could come near and the one in Rocky Point rd wasn't bad as well. Yes I agree that if our management lead by the board has made some decisions that have got us in the mess of the past 5 years but I am hopeful that the new Coyne measures work as they appear to be . I have been as frustrated as you to how unaccountable these board members are but it is similar to most other clubs.The most damming evidence is the funding we had to take from the NRL.

 

[MilanDragon]

Milan - forget buying a half back for a season.
What about Nona? He sitting is under our noses, has a great kicking game, can kick goals and could have done a job for us. That would have given us a more rounded team especially now that Widdop is injured.
We are severely hampered without a decent kicking game.
The reason it isn't more glaringly evident is because our go forward compensates and masks the problem to a certain degree.
It's just a real shame Hutch got injured, he would have filled the void perfectly.

My response was to Possm who said Millward should've recognised in January that Hutch was out for the season and recruited a FG ready half. Which re-thinking it is as silly to me now as it was when I first read it.

I'm all for giving someone in our club a chance.