If Celtic make Superleague

[bender]

If Celtic do happen to make Superleague, is it important that Cardiff, Bridgend or some other welsh team enter a team in NL2? One of the best parts of the Crusaders so far, is that it gives the best players from the National conference the chance to step up to semi pro level. With a super league side, this will largely be lost, since most will not make the step up. In fact, there is a danger that for some time, no Welsh will be exposed to semi pro level football if the new franchise is given a spot in SL. With the superleague side using a large squad of players, there will be quality players left over. Wouldnt it be advantageous if that pool of excess players had a semi pro Welsh team to play in, thus giving the local welsh players the opportunity to play with and against higher level teams. I would envisage a set up similar to what exists with many Qld cup teams. This hasnt really seemed to be discussed anywhere in the Celtic bid. Is it one of the major points which has been missed in the bid and is it possible that if the Welsh are succesful in their bid that we will see the formation of a new semi pro team.

 

[bartman]

The Crusaders Colts are currently playing in Conference National... which kind of/used to/is be the level under NL2. Perhaps a second Crusaders side such as the Colts could seek to climb up to NL2 level, to keep the development process going?

Alternatively, once in Superleague, Crusaders would have the opportunity to field sides against other SL clubs in the academy competions. Not sure if any of this has been mentioned in their bid or not...? But it seems pretty logical extension once the irinitial goal of making Super League is achieved.

 

[bender]

The Crusaders Colts are currently playing in Conference National... which kind of/used to/is be the level under NL2. Perhaps a second Crusaders side such as the Colts could seek to climb up to NL2 level, to keep the development process going?

Alternatively, once in Superleague, Crusaders would have the opportunity to field sides against other SL clubs in the academy competions. Not sure if any of this has been mentioned in their bid or not...? But it seems pretty logical extension once the irinitial goal of making Super League is achieved.

Yeah i wasnt sure about the set up for superleague academy sides or the colts. It is a little hard to follow. I have seen the colts being described as being in NL3 which i guess it sort of is, but it seemed a strange competition. The last time i looked at a table, the colts had played nowhere near as many games as the other teams, and it looked as if the competition was not going to be an equal number of games for everyone. Is this the case, or was the table i looked at just incorrect?

Also, i would have thought that there will be many overage players that dont get a game at the crusaders. Are they allowed to play in the academy sides? What happens at the other super league players at other clubs?

My line of thinking is that maybe it might be better if (for example) the cardiff club played in NL2 and formed an alliance with celtic, which would have gave them a leg up and hand into NL2. Who knows, if Celtic were successful, Cardiff might get enough of a leg up so that some time in the future, they would become one of the big sides in NL1 and be looking at promotion. I thought that London Skolars had a similar type of relationship with the London Broncos.

 

[bartman]

Yeah, it is all a bit complex, and there were some changes in the most recent off-season - there seems to be a Reserve Team competition now, in Superleague and a First Division (NL1/2)?

Conference National (and in the past NL3) can suffer through a bit of disorganisation and lack of resources, so I can believe the mismatched games played on the tables. Weather and a poorer standard of grounds can play havoc with schedules, and also Challenge Cup where an amateur team wins through into higher rounds, and their regular season matches have to be deferred.

The Crusader Colts will be a perfect match for the Crusaders Academy side I'd imagine, as what was Senior Academy (probably now known as this Reserve Team Comp) is under 21s (although older left over SL players can also play - although most players in that situation are "loaned" out to lower NL1 or 2 clubs for open age match fitness). What is now known as the Gillette Academy comp is probably the old Junior Academy which is under 18s...

The other Welsh clubs currently play a level below the Crusaders Colts, in one of the 11 regional conferences: Blackwood Bulldogs, Bridgend Blue Bulls, Cardiff Demons, Neath Port Talbot Steelers, Newport Titans, Torfaen Tigers, Valley Cougars, West Wales Sharks. So there'd likely be even less resources and organisation etc operating at their level than in Conference National (although the Welsh conference seems one of the better organised that I've come across).

So I suppose one of them could be a target for a development push into Conference National and eventually NL2 status, in addition to the Crusader Colts stepping up to Reserve Team competition? Though it will take a lot of effort and maybe years of planning and energy to get one of the other Welsh clubs up to semi-pro NL2 level... but yeah, it will be needed ideally in Cardiff in the future if the game is to grow.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

The next step for the Crusaders would be getting Academy teams in as many Academy grades as possible. Eventually the aim would be to have a team in under 16s, 18s and 21s all in the top grade. It will probably take a few years, or at least it would take a few years to get competitive teams in each.

 

[Evil Homer]

UK Reserve grade is like it used to be in Australia before the U20s comp came in; it is new this year. Crusaders Colts were only entered in the Conference National because they did not register in time to enter into the proper reserves. In SL, Celtic will be required to run both a reserve grade and an academy U18s side, so there shouldn't be too much of a problem WRT players coming through. In all honesty, the semi-pro sides are not too important to SL development and it's very rare that they are used for youth development of other clubs - they exist in their own right, and only a couple have partnerships with SL clubs. London Skolars, for example, have little to do with Harlequins in terms of player sharing etc so I don't think a SL Crusaders side would make a second Welsh club any more likely.

 

[roughyedspud]

i don't think it's a IF anymore, celtic are nailed on...but you raise a good point bender,and it's something i brought up a year or so ago when celtic crusaders were first mentioned about in regards to super league/franchises.. it's just as important to replace celtic in the national leagues with another welsh club as it is for celtic to get into super league imo..

once celtic get into super league the celtics reserve & academy setup will follow, thats a given or else they lose points on the next criteria..but what welsh RL needs below that is some kind of step up from the welsh conference to national league 2, i think originally ( a year or so ago) i said that celtic should move to swansea,and that shiny new, 20,000 capacity stadium and then the bridgend blue bulls,who play in te welsh conference, should be promoted to national league 2 and,more importantly, they should have to stick to the same overseas quota rules as everyone else meaning they'll have to develop the local welsh talent...feeder clubs are a dirty word up here in the "heartlands" but i feel having another welsh team in the nationl leagues would form a easily managed development path for welsh RL to work down, so we'd have,

celtic crusaders > reserves > adacemy

&

bridgend blue bulls > reserves


that would do wonders for welsh RL and would have them back in the international top 5 in no time imo

 

[bowes]

(although the Welsh conference seems one of the better organised that I've come across).

It's not actually, the teams only play 7 games plus playoffs which is poor.

Though at a junior level they seem to be much better

 

[screeny]

How are CEltic nailed on? Villeneuve were nailed on three years ago, IIRC...

 

[RLIF]

Celtic Crusaders and Wales coach John Dixon has cited young Welsh players like Ben Flower as a primary reason why the Welsh side should be given a Super League licence when the Rugby Football League make their decision in less than three weeks time.

Flower was drafted in from the Crusaders Colts side at the 11th hour by the injury-stricken Crusaders first team last week, performing creditably and scoring a try in the Crusaders’ 38-6 win over Widnes Vikings, their third victory against the Cheshire club in the space of two months.

Dixon has said that it is through Celtic Crusaders’ new player pathways that players like Flower are now able to progress and develop their talent and remain living in Wales. Flower, just 20-years old, was spotted playing rugby union for Bedwas and is tipped by many to be a future Welsh rugby league international.

This opportunity wasn’t available to current Crusaders players like Gareth Dean and Aled James. The two Welsh internationals both started their rugby league career at local Conference club Cardiff Demons and, as there was no player pathway system active in Wales at the time, in order to further their Super League careers, they had to move up north, with Dean signing for Wigan in 2001 and James for Widnes in 2003.

Both players returned to the Crusaders in 2006 but as Dixon explains, had the player pathways existed at the time, there wouldn’t have been a need for them to move in the first place.

“Now that we are setting up seven home-grown squads in Wales with direct and organised player pathways, there is a wonderful opportunity for any young man, who aspires to play professional rugby league at the highest level, to achieve this ambition in his own country,” Dixon said.

“Only five years ago players like Aled James and Gareth Dean had to move up north to play Super League and the fact that he came back to Wales in the first year of the Crusaders set-up just demonstrates his ambition to be part of a strong professional Welsh set-up.

“There are young Welsh players like Ben Flower, who are now being developed through these pathways already, especially via our Crusaders Colts side which has seen 30 Welsh born and bred youngsters turn out and their efforts and enthusiasm have taken them to top spot in their league from day one.

“The future of Welsh rugby league looks very bright indeed and I only hope they are given a chance to shine in Super League for the Crusaders from next year.”

The current facts are these:

Crowds at Brewery Field matches have increased by 75 per cent in two seasons from an average of a couple of hundred to 1,500;

The Crusaders have gone from National League Two also-rans in their first campaign of 2006 to third in National League One by the halfway mark of just their third season;

They are consistently putting to the sword bigger league names such as Widnes, Leigh and Halifax;

The club has a thriving colts set-up and plans for a fully-fledged academy and seven youth teams should they achieve Super League status.

More than any of that though, it is the Crusaders’ overall vision that jolts you.

Already they are in negotiations with Bridgend Council to build a 12,000-15,000 capacity stadium on the outskirts of the town and have identified a preferred site among several options.

The project is at an early stage and will need to be accelerated dramatically if they get the Super League green light next month. But that is just what is likely to happen.

 

[JasonE]

I can't wait to see a Celtic/Welsh team playing in the Academy competition, i watched the Wales under 16 team last year and there was some good players in the team, with good coaching and a clear pathway they could have a great future which would benefit the game all round.

 

[RLIF]

I can't wait to see a Celtic/Welsh team playing in the Academy competition, i watched the Wales under 16 team last year and there was some good players in the team, with good coaching and a clear pathway they could have a great future which would benefit the game all round.

I just cant help thinking what Wales could achieve if these path ways are created. And well done to Wales RL for keeping the work up on the Juniors front with the U16's and recently U19's vs Australia.

Just look at the talent that is already coming through: Ben Flower, Lee Williams, Ben and Rhys Evans...

I hope Flower and Williams get a look in against England later on this year.