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If perth is such a can't miss home run for nrl expansion..?!

Iamback

Coach
Messages
11,442
Yeah I was around that time, in Sydney. 4 new clubs was way too ambitious, then superleague happened. Crowds dropped off massively everywhere so it's hard to use events back then to gauge anything. The reds Crowds during that time beat a few other teams, they weren't at the bottom.
Caution will be taken by the NRL and any investor of the club . If it doesnt stack up then it doesn't stack up. But the reason's not to go to Perth bandied about here are ridiculous , not by you btw.
Glory, force, gws..... that's all bull and that crap will be challenged.

They aren't reasons not to go, They are reasons to be cautious. That point is being lost in this and threads like this
NZ 2 is my preference but has its own issues to overcome to be a suitable option

As a whole I don't think Australian Sport has done expansion well, WSW, Storm are a few notable exceptions. Even in RL in the last 30 years

Perth
Adelaide
Crushers
Have gone

Those who are still around.
GC were seagulls then Chargers, Had their licence returned since being Titans
Auckland has had issues
Even Newcastle recently was in NRL ownership

The NBL said this in regards to that competitions expansion

“A reasonable lead in time is a year-and-a-half to build a team from the ground up, build the back office and the on-court performance, without rushing it,” Kestelman said.

“I don’t want more teams for the sake of having more teams if they’re going to be struggling.

“We need to make sure there is support from fans, from business, from government to ensure it is commercially viable and it actually grows the game and the NBL.”


Nailed my thoughts with that. No rush imo gives a few seasons to assess some of the issues mentioned in this thread and generally
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
57,684
They aren't reasons not to go, They are reasons to be cautious. That point is being lost in this and threads like this
NZ 2 is my preference but has its own issues to overcome to be a suitable option

As a whole I don't think Australian Sport has done expansion well, WSW, Storm are a few notable exceptions. Even in RL in the last 30 years

Perth
Adelaide
Crushers
Have gone

Those who are still around.
GC were seagulls then Chargers, Had their licence returned since being Titans
Auckland has had issues
Even Newcastle recently was in NRL ownership

The NBL said this in regards to that competitions expansion

“A reasonable lead in time is a year-and-a-half to build a team from the ground up, build the back office and the on-court performance, without rushing it,” Kestelman said.

“I don’t want more teams for the sake of having more teams if they’re going to be struggling.

“We need to make sure there is support from fans, from business, from government to ensure it is commercially viable and it actually grows the game and the NBL.”


Nailed my thoughts with that. No rush imo gives a few seasons to assess some of the issues mentioned in this thread and generally
Ideally though you'd be giving either NZ2 or Perth a 3 year lead in given both areas have to build a club from scratch. We saw with Dolphins that even with a 15 month lead in it wasn't ideal, and they had a lot of the infrastructure in place already. It may sound a long way off but to do it properly it really needs to start now!

So presuming the target is to have a club in by 2028 for the start of the next tV deal:

It will need to be

2024 existing clubs negotiated with and got on board, bid locations investigated and decided
2025 tv negotiations done, bids invited and Bid decision announced
2026 club joins reserve grade/2nd tier
2027 new club builds its brand and squad in reserve grade/2nd tier
2028 club joins NRL

I'm expecting the WA Govt will have decided who it is partnering with this year and will start to represent strongly to the NRL for its inclusion.
 

Iamback

Coach
Messages
11,442
Ideally though you'd be giving either NZ2 or Perth a 3 year lead in given both areas have to build a club from scratch. We saw with Dolphins that even with a 15 month lead in it wasn't ideal, and they had a lot of the infrastructure in place already. It may sound a long way off but to do it properly it really needs to start now!

So presuming the target is to have a club in by 2028 for the start of the next tV deal:

It will need to be

2024 existing clubs negotiated with and got on board, bid locations investigated and decided
2025 tv negotiations done, bids invited and Bid decision announced
2026 club joins reserve grade/2nd tier
2027 new club builds its brand and squad in reserve grade/2nd tier
2028 club joins NRL

I'm expecting the WA Govt will have decided who it is partnering with this year and will start to represent strongly to the NRL for its inclusion.

NZ2 for me is purely players and potential for a couple of games at Eden Park, How the FTA coverage goes over there too because NZ and the pacific are growth areas regardless of who comes in. Removing the 6pm Friday games for existing teams has benefit.

For Perth, I'd be talking to the Force and seeing how they get players across. Government help for Travel too would be handy.

2 seasons is needed to assess Dolphins properly. maybe even 2026 for Business cases to be called for
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
57,684
NZ2 for me is purely players and potential for a couple of games at Eden Park, How the FTA coverage goes over there too because NZ and the pacific are growth areas regardless of who comes in. Removing the 6pm Friday games for existing teams has benefit.

For Perth, I'd be talking to the Force and seeing how they get players across. Government help for Travel too would be handy.

2 seasons is needed to assess Dolphins properly. maybe even 2026 for Business cases to be called for
Its a dilemma for sure for the NRL. On one hand they want to see how Dolphins go and have to convince the clubs again. On the other hand they need to decide if there will be another club before they go to market with the tv rights for 2028, and they are under enormous pressure to have that ninth game to sell to close the massive tv revenue gap on AFL now.

I can see negotiations for tv rights being end of 2025/early 2026 and they will then have an indication if the ninth game is going to more than cover costs or not. That really doesnt leave much time for a new club to get started and sign a squad though. It also only gives 2 seasons to see how the Dolphins go. Just another reason why signing cheapo tv extensions and only bringing in one club was a terrible idea.

Its a pickle for sure and one of the problems of not having a long term strategy and just winging it based on what tv tells you to do contract to contract.
 
Last edited:

Wb1234

Coach
Messages
10,626
NZ2 for me is purely players and potential for a couple of games at Eden Park, How the FTA coverage goes over there too because NZ and the pacific are growth areas regardless of who comes in. Removing the 6pm Friday games for existing teams has benefit.

For Perth, I'd be talking to the Force and seeing how they get players across. Government help for Travel too would be handy.

2 seasons is needed to assess Dolphins properly. maybe even 2026 for Business cases to be called for
They could potentially add them in 2025 or 2026 and just get an extra 20 million for the ninth game without extending the deal

then go to market 3 years later with evidence of how the 18 team comp is rating

if it were me I would announce them this year and give them a year in nsw or qld cup next year for nrl entry in 2025

the nrl can fund them for a year or two In nsw or qld cup to prepare
 
Messages
8,496
Im not trolling at all. The Titans were literally unviable - the reason is irrelevant. And I mean literally in Administration, not just by cherry picking revenues I dont like. According to your own standards, the Titans should be non existent. Instead they literally had to be bailed out and literally taken over by the league. That shouldnt happen according to you.
When it was pointed out that the Force are the richest club you said "wat?" (sic).

That's a comment people make when they doubt another person's claim.

If you don't give a f**k about where the revenue comes from then you wouldn't have doubted @Perth Red's claim.

You ignored Twiggy's wealth because a) you didn't like it or b) didn't realise it bankrolls the Force.

Are you unable to see why regional clubs from one team towns are given aid?

If a team like Gold Coast Titans or Newcastle Knights is axed then the game loses traction in an entire market. Removing one or two Sydney clubs won't have the same effect because the market will have more than half a dozen clubs to service it. If you don't understand that then don't start a business.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
57,684
They could potentially add them in 2025 or 2026 and just get an extra 20 million for the ninth game without extending the deal

then go to market 3 years later with evidence of how the 18 team comp is rating

if it were me I would announce them this year and give them a year in nsw or qld cup next year for nrl entry in 2025

the nrl can fund them for a year or two In nsw or qld cup to prepare
And I could one day marry Gail Gadot and drive a Ferrari. Both are as likely as each other!
 

Iamback

Coach
Messages
11,442
They could potentially add them in 2025 or 2026 and just get an extra 20 million for the ninth game without extending the deal

then go to market 3 years later with evidence of how the 18 team comp is rating

if it were me I would announce them this year and give them a year in nsw or qld cup next year for nrl entry in 2025

the nrl can fund them for a year or two In nsw or qld cup to prepare

Hopefully we get a nice even comp this year and can start it earlier
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
57,684
When it was pointed out that the Force are the richest club you said "wat?" (sic).

That's a comment people make when they doubt another person's claim.

If you don't give a f**k about where the revenue comes from then you wouldn't have doubted @Perth Red's claim.

You ignored Twiggy's wealth because a) you didn't like it or b) didn't realise it bankrolls the Force.

Are you unable to see why regional clubs from one team towns are given aid?
Alas at a time the ARLC is cutting funding to WA and the SG ball program is mothballed due to lack of NRL support Union has a sugar daddy sprinkling fairy dust notes over it.

RugbyWA and the Forrest family have announced today that $5 million dollars will be invested into community rugby and performance pathways over the next five years to assist with the alignment of rugby union in Western Australia.
The generous contribution will go to a number of RugbyWA's directed programs including the expansion of the WA schools program with the goal of engaging new and pre-existing schools into the sport through the form of a competitive competition.
Western Force and Wallaby legend David Pocock has also signed on as an ambassador for grassroots rugby pledging his support to RugbyWA’s ongoing programs.
The total of $7 million in funding over the next five years is the largest contribution to grassroots rugby in the state’s history, and one of the largest private contributions to grassroots sports in Australia.
The latest funding will see a major expansion of the RugbyRoos program targeted at new players into the game as well as assisting the increase of rugby participation within WA public high schools through the improvement of a strong and highly competitive schools’ competition.

 

Wb1234

Coach
Messages
10,626
Hopefully we get a nice even comp this year and can start it earlier
Nrl clubs, and the broncos especially, did the dolphins no favours

the broncos are hoarding players they aren’t even going to use in their top 30 so the dolphins can’t get them

then in afl their strong clubs are helping their expansion clubs survive

the selfishness in rugby league is depressing sometimes
 

Iamback

Coach
Messages
11,442
Its a dilemma for sure for the NRL. On one hand they want to see how Dolphins go and have to convince the clubs again. On the other hand they need to decide if there will be another club before they go to market with the tv rights for 2028, and they are under enormous pressure to have that ninth game to sell to close the massive tv revenue gap on AFL now.

I can see negotiations for tv rights being end of 2025/early 2026 and they will then have an indication if the ninth game is going to more than cover costs or not. That really doesnt leave much time for a new club to get started and sign a squad though. It also only gives 2 seasons to see how the Dolphins go. Just another reason why signing cheapo tv extensions and only bringing in one club was a terrible idea.

Its a pickle for sure and one of the problems of not having a long term strategy and just winging it based on what tv tells you to do contract to contract.

Dolphins was much easier due to logistics, Team 18 won't be so easy. I still think the comp is catching up on no lower grade footy in 2020/2021 and that will be what makes the decision
 
Messages
8,496
Good work. At the time I was living in Sunnybank Hills and was a regular at Scorpions home games. Some diabolical results in those last couple of years. Was a shame. Didn't they join up with the Bulldogs towards the end?
I don't think they got any money from the Bulldogs. The 15 year lease they had on Meakin Park crippled them financially. When the Scorpions were forced to sign the lease for Meakin Park with the Logan City Council in 1988 it was more than the combined total of every other sports club in Logan. The club wanted to play at Cronulla Park.

This was at a time when sponsorship and media coverage was scarce because the Broncos entered the Sydney competition. Established clubs like Dolphins and Seagulls almost went under in 1988. Valleys, Brothers and Wests struggled and went bust. Souths would have gone bust without assistance from Canberra Raiders.

The Queensland Gov have handed Cronulla Park to a fumbleball club, courtesy of the tax payer.
 

Pneuma

Bench
Messages
3,752
Looks like I’m superfluous to this meaningless argument now. Enjoyed it immensely particularly changing sides at a whim. My job is done. Continue the pointless fight lads!
 

The_Wookie

Juniors
Messages
2,127
When it was pointed out that the Force are the richest club you said "wat?" (sic).

I did.

That's a comment people make when they doubt another person's claim.

I still do. And it very much depends on the ownership and board structures, documentation I have yet to see. Technicalities are the soul of the law.

And has nothing to do with the viability of Sydney league clubs.

If you don't give a f**k about where the revenue comes from then you wouldn't have doubted @Perth Red's claim.

I doubt nearly everything he says as a default. With you I just assume its biased nonsense.

You ignored Twiggy's wealth because a) you didn't like it or b) didn't realise it bankrolls the Force.

Or I didnt refer to it at all.

Are you unable to see why regional clubs from one team towns are given aid?

I dont care. Either a club is viable or its not. If its not viable then f**k it off. You want perfectly viable clubs gone because you dont like where they are from and you dont like their revenue streams, but are perfectly ok with the league bailing out clubs that are actually financially destitute.
 

Wb1234

Coach
Messages
10,626
I did.



I still do. And it very much depends on the ownership and board structures, documentation I have yet to see. Technicalities are the soul of the law.

And has nothing to do with the viability of Sydney league clubs.



I doubt nearly everything he says as a default. With you I just assume its biased nonsense.



Or I didnt refer to it at all.



I dont care. Either a club is viable or its not. If its not viable then f**k it off. You want perfectly viable clubs gone because you dont like where they are from and you dont like their revenue streams, but are perfectly ok with the league bailing out clubs that are actually financially destitute.
He supports the broncos and cowboys

both clubs generate money from poker machines lmao
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
57,684
Dolphins was much easier due to logistics, Team 18 won't be so easy. I still think the comp is catching up on no lower grade footy in 2020/2021 and that will be what makes the decision
Having been around this for a long time now I am fully expecting to see what happened in 2013 and 2017. It will be deemed too hard and put on the back burner until 2033. I think the game has some major funding issues ahead of it. It has massively upped the club and player payments without massively upping revenue by same amount. That means it is coming out of somewhere, most likely grass roots and asset building.

To go to an 18 NRL and NRLW clubs by 2028 is a massive cost increase with the way the salary cap is going so unless the NRL can pull a rabbit out of the hat and do an AFL with the next TV rights I am very suss about if there will be any money to achieve it in that time frame.
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
57,684
I did.



I still do. And it very much depends on the ownership and board structures, documentation I have yet to see. Technicalities are the soul of the law.

I doubt nearly everything he says as a default. With you I just assume its biased nonsense.
You have a weave better than Benji Marshall lol.
Twiggy Forrest owns the Force. He has and continues to spend significant sums, by us mere mortals standards, on Union in WA. He is worth over $30billion. ergo the Force are owned by the richest man in the country and have untold financial support. ergo they are the richest sports club in the country when factoring in wealth behind them.
Of course just looking at revenue raised by the football club they are a minnow. But then so are clubs like Panthers or Bulldogs who only raise $10-14mill a year from football operations.
Still Id probably rather have less revenue and Twiggy Forest with his hand in his pockets behind me lol
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
57,684
Posted this in clubs revenue thread but heres why I'm concerned if NRL is in a position to move forward with an 18th club, especially with investing in grassroots as will be needed:

'Overall club payments are going to cost NRL approx $82.7million a year more (maybe even more depending on NRLW payments) in 2023-2027 than in 2018-.

At the same time total NRL revenue has only gone up $79.5million from 2018 to what has been predicted for 2023.'

So from 2023 compared to 2018 there is at least a gap of $3.2mil a year before we factor in the increased running costs in all other areas in 2023 compared to 2018. On the other side of the ledger there has been savings made, and maybe the predicted $600mill revenue for this year will be more. But as it stands its not looking overly flush with cash to fund expansion so soon.
 
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