If we play like that every week we'll win a lot of games this year

[rasaint]

Unfortunately you have to win the close ones and yes even take the refs out of it. I would hate going back to the days of 'losing bravely'. It is true that the refs made a number of consistently poor calls in Melbourne's favour. I hope the scales even up over following weeks and Mary was unusually frank about what he thought of the refs.

 

[Lovemedragons]

Felt it was a game that got away, a bit of bumbling from both sides really and the refs were cruel at critical times - they call back a knock on from De Belin when they were threatening in the second half was the worst example, there was no knock on from the Dragons at least. Both Creagh and Frizzell dropped balls when put into a gap, neither of them seemed to be expecting the ball but even if a decoy, they should have been more alert. Both would have gone close to scoring or setting us up. Mann was good but scary with the high balls. Still don't know if Rein is a premiership dummy half, others here support him and I respect their opinions generally but just not sure, I'll have another look at the replay.

 

[SBD82]

My observations:

Packer was excellent. Led the kick chase, led the line speed in defence (along with Rein) when he was on. Every time he hit the ball up you could see how hard Melbourne had to work around the ruck to shut him down. His speed at the play the ball ensured that the 2nd runner after him (and a few occasions even the 3rd) had a clear passage through the ruck to gain 10-12m. Packer absolutely dominated Melbourne's ruck while he was on. What a player. What a great signing.

Rein led the line speed in defence. There were a couple of occasions where we contained Melbourne to less than 35m gain in attack. I noticed the intensity in defence pretty much dropped off instantly when Rein came off.

As usual he had some incisive runs around the ruck also, including the one where he passed to Benji who then put Mann through the gap on the inside. Great ruck play.

Obviously his usual detractors will harp on some bad passes but I really saw his value in defence. And if you go back and watch the game without any bias you'll see Cam Smith (who is the benchmark) had at least 2 passes go to ground and at least 2 that went forward but hey, he's Cam Smith so it doesn't count. Oh and with regards to "that kick", well we were literally centimetres from winning the game. Centimetres. But hey, many of you love the low hanging fruit so #blamerein.

Mann was excellent. Great positional play, great pass to set up the first try and some incisive runs. Another great buy.

We showed a lot of mental steel. We were well on the wrong end of the penalty count and some of the refs calls were nothing short of absurd, yet the boys never dropped their heads and kept hanging in there. I'm not usually one to blame the refs but if that games was refereed down the middle we win every day of the week, I'm sure of that.

Lafai didn't do enough to justify holding the centre position over Aitken. I'm not sure how comfortable Aitken feels playing on the left side but I feel he would have offered more penetration in attack down that flank.

Add to that Aitken is not a winger. He may have some improvement in him but I think he was horribly exposed out there and he needs to be in the centres. I'm not bagging the kid but facts are facts.

If we bring that intensity next week against the Sharks (and actually get a 50/50 split of calls from the refs) we win 13+.

I'm glad you wrote this nick. I wasn't looking forward to the time it would take me to write something similar.

This side has the foundations of a very very good football team. There were errors tonight, and too much dropped ball. But in the periods that it clicked we looked better than we have for a long long time.

I was concerned about some of the yardage that Melbourne made down the middle. Some of the initial contact wasn't great, but again, when it clicked it was as good as I've seen from a dragons team for a long time.

I thought lafai was ok. He had a running battle with Nielsen all night, and Nielsen is no slouch. He had one bad miss, but the rest of it they came out pretty even.

Mann's errors were pressure errors. They were disappointing but he's not the first fullback to have a bad night at the back. His clean up work and positioning needs some work but I thought he gave us something extra in attack that duges can't provide.

Duges needs better ball. But Melbournes defence was ready for him. So it's hard to gauge from one game.

Dugan should not be defending on the wing. I think Bellamy got one over Mary tonight on that one. I think Mary was worried that aitken would be targeted in the air, Bellamy was one step ahead and attacked where Mary didn't expect. I thought in the second half when Aitken was defending on the wing we looked much better.

Rein's service was better tonight. There were still a couple of ordinary passes but I saw a definite improvement in where he was putting the ball for the forwards. As you said his defence was excellent. I saw him in the supermarket the other day. He's not as big as I thought he would be. Pretty small bloke to be honest. I'm taller than him and I'm not sure id be able to consistently put my body on the line in front of a JWH or a Bromwich the way that he does.

Only change I would make for next week would be JT back to his usual spot. I don't think that we can carry a specialist edge forward on the bench, which sucks, as I thought Mathews was one of our best tonight.

Overall I think this has the makings of a very good side. I don't think there will be one opposition coach taking us lightly after watching the game tonight.

 

[Hills Dragon]

I'm pretty sure Cam Smith has compromising photos of all the refs. The Dragons get pulled up for passes that are not actually forward while Smith throws NFL passes repeatedly through the game and we get done for a knock on that never happened, then other crap decisions as well. Seriously, think of how many games we've lost to the storm after crucial, shit decisions. I'm over it.

 

[TheRev]

We couldnt have played much worse and they played actually pretty well (all be it greatly helped by numerous ref calls that could have been bunker reversed like in other games).. and we lost by a conversion.. tbh thats a pretty good platform.

If we get our act together with our outside backs and Havili doing more minutes.. we will be very competitive.

 

[Get2dachopper!]

When Mary sorts out the rein/havilli rotation, we will improve. I'd be starting with havilli, then shifting him to lock when rein comes on. We did something similar with young/fein.

As for the positions 1-5, I'm not sure we can do much else. Unless we have a gun winger like koribete in the lower grades, it's no use chopping and changing. I'm hearing good things about Milne and Carr, but unless there are injuries, I don't think they will get a chance.

 

[dino2170]

We will se what you lot say in two weeks when we still have no speed

 

[BrissyRedV]

Positives:
Our pack looked strong in attack. Defence was pretty good most of the game. Some signs of improvement in attack inside the oppositions 20. Our start was good and looked we were finishing all over them at the end of the game so team fitness must be good.

The negatives:
Line speed and too many metres up the middle. Still some adjustments needed to the outside backs. Handling errors and some silly penalties (not including the referee manufactured ones). The interchange use needs tweaking. Attack still a work in progress.

 

[BLM01]

5 of 7 in the backline are new to their roles
We had 4 poor decisions against us
Packer was great Rein was not horrible and shaded Havili
Dugan had a poor game
Lafai deserves more time based on tonight
Tough draw will make or break us

Agree with all that and I always believed the best fit was Dugan 1, Mann wing (if not someone quicker or more robust - Milne?), Aitken where he should of been 3.
If Mary sticks to his Round 1 backline..well I will give it a few more weeks before throwing daggers at it again.
But Mary hit the nail on the head in PC. You wanna play Top 8 you got to nail those chances to win and Melb in Melb was a golden opportunity tonight lost with the last 5 minutes poor attack. We really needed to take an early 2 points and get out of there.
Anyway bring on the Sharks next week...improve on this week we might just get em at home.

 

[BlackDuckSaint]

My observations:

Packer was excellent. Led the kick chase, led the line speed in defence (along with Rein) when he was on. Every time he hit the ball up you could see how hard Melbourne had to work around the ruck to shut him down. His speed at the play the ball ensured that the 2nd runner after him (and a few occasions even the 3rd) had a clear passage through the ruck to gain 10-12m. Packer absolutely dominated Melbourne's ruck while he was on. What a player. What a great signing.

Rein led the line speed in defence. There were a couple of occasions where we contained Melbourne to less than 35m gain in attack. I noticed the intensity in defence pretty much dropped off instantly when Rein came off.

As usual he had some incisive runs around the ruck also, including the one where he passed to Benji who then put Mann through the gap on the inside. Great ruck play.

Obviously his usual detractors will harp on some bad passes but I really saw his value in defence. And if you go back and watch the game without any bias you'll see Cam Smith (who is the benchmark) had at least 2 passes go to ground and at least 2 that went forward but hey, he's Cam Smith so it doesn't count. Oh and with regards to "that kick", well we were literally centimetres from winning the game. Centimetres. But hey, many of you love the low hanging fruit so #blamerein.

Mann was excellent. Great positional play, great pass to set up the first try and some incisive runs. Another great buy.

We showed a lot of mental steel. We were well on the wrong end of the penalty count and some of the refs calls were nothing short of absurd, yet the boys never dropped their heads and kept hanging in there. I'm not usually one to blame the refs but if that games was refereed down the middle we win every day of the week, I'm sure of that.

Lafai didn't do enough to justify holding the centre position over Aitken. I'm not sure how comfortable Aitken feels playing on the left side but I feel he would have offered more penetration in attack down that flank.

Add to that Aitken is not a winger. He may have some improvement in him but I think he was horribly exposed out there and he needs to be in the centres. I'm not bagging the kid but facts are facts.

If we bring that intensity next week against the Sharks (and actually get a 50/50 split of calls from the refs) we win 13+.

Mhmm, The main thing I noticed about Packer was how hard it was for Melbourne to put him on his back. They have dominated the comp for years because of their ruck and wrestling superiority. But Packer was an exception, he will be a massive asset,

 

[smi962]

I thought Packer and Ah Mau were both superb. We looked so much more dangerous when they were on the field driving us forward. It was the period when they were off that we conceded most of our points against us. We lacked go forward in this period and had our wingers ineffectively carting it up for 3-4 plays per set during this time.

Mose is a big loss. Imagine having him to replace the starting props halfway though the first half.

 

[RED73V]

Well said , so frustrating to lose like that ., so easily two points on the board
Refs were shit they gave melb penalties but when proctor and others get friz in a headlock , nothing
1/ knock on that wasnt
2/ jack pushed over
3/chambers dropped ball
4/ smith passes forward and they were clear cut
So pissed off with kids referees they had tonight
Hope we can beat the sharks at another ground we struggke at
I know its only one game but the 2points would of been a huge relief

100% agree saintjeff Melbourne ALWAYS get away with everything from the wrestling to long in the tackle , forward passes from dummy half cause cam smith does no wrong , cheap shots eg limb twisting by slater smith & co & lack of penalties against them for inside the ten . I've deadest had a gut full of seeing every game they play being dictated by a whinging CAPTAIN & COACH

 

[Saints Forever]

By and large a pretty good first up effort from the boys.

They defended for very long periods due to a lopsided penalty count.

Some embarrassing refereeing decisions that make you wonder how these people are trained, which included a forward pass that was clearly passed backwards, a play the ball penalty that was simply a bad play the ball, a "knock on" whilst facing our own goal line and many wrestling penalties that were called for holding down players yet the Storm players were "perfect". Who said there is no such thing as home ground advantage.

Great to see that Cam Smith has installed himself as head of Referee co-ordinators and decision making.

Too many mistakes in our 20 metre zone.

A clear lack of speed out wide.

An even distribution of ball during the game and we win. Simple as that.

For those in the forum who have already gone in to doomsday mode, please take a deep breath and give yourselves an upper cut.

We were very competitive. Mary and the coaching staff have some work to do to tweak the right side backline defence.

Was impressed by Packer, he was very good. Havili at dummy half. Dunamis Lui and Creagh did well when they came on. Apart from dropping the chip kick, Mann showed promise.

Halves were a little quiet. What do you expect when we get less than 50% of the pill.

Saints will improve next week.

 

[Mr Red]

5 of 7 in the backline are new to their roles
We had 4 poor decisions against us
Packer was great Rein was not horrible and shaded Havili
Dugan had a poor game
Lafai deserves more time based on tonight
Tough draw will make or break us

cant argue with any of that.
i have real concerns as to where Dugan fits into this team to be honest.. i mentioned a few weeks ago he could become the 700k a season square peg in the round hole...

 

[BennyV]

5 of 7 in the backline are new to their roles
We had 4 poor decisions against us
Packer was great Rein was not horrible and shaded Havili
Dugan had a poor game
Lafai deserves more time based on tonight
Tough draw will make or break us

Is my maths off? Mann, Dugan, Aitken are 'new' to their roles, and given that Dugan has played right centre for half a season before, I'd argue that 2.5 of the back 7 are new to their role...

 

[Mr Red]

Is my maths off? Mann, Dugan, Aitken are 'new' to their roles, and given that Dugan has played right centre for half a season before, I'd argue that 2.5 of the back 7 are new to their role...

im guessing he also meant the shift to the left from Nighty, and the introduction of a new player to the team in Lafai.
although Lafai is a specialist left centre he is new to his role at the dragons and needs time to gel with his team mates.

at least that was my take on cagey's comments..

 

[Minh]

Dugan will get better, I have total faith in him. He's not the fastest player but last night he was a yard slower than his usual self, just had an off night. He was well marked and never had any room to make an impression.
Lafai showed signs of class, he popped a ball back for Benji's try, also a nice infield kick for a repeat set, he's a good player. Aitken, playing out of position but too early to write him off after only one round. He's played well on the wing in the trials.
Mann showed some nice touches, excellent in defense and light on his feet with genuine speed. A couple of errors but even the best players make mistakes, he's worth persisting with at FB.
Our forwards held their own against arguably the best drilled/wrestling pack in the comp, but there's no doubt they are one of the best packs. Clearly we did not win the ground battle but we held our own. Packer is an absolute monster, De belin looking really sharp sniffing around the rucks. Overall we did not bend the defensive line enough to give space to our outside backs but this is due to the quality of opposition and our team has more improvement in them than Melbourne I feel.
Rein was not the reason we lost, far from it. A couple of bad passes but so did Cam smith, all the negative talk about him makes people focus on his errors too much. Havilli looks to have a bit of X factor about him, nice passes from the ground and runs the ball strongly, a must in the starting 17.
People saying that refs dont decide games have no idea, I've seen refs decide many games over the years it's not funny, with some blatantly bad calls you have to wonder if it's really only OPSM that they need to see, or should they be more closely investigated?
One dud call, the push on De belin called a knock on instead of a penalty to us, directly led to a try and match winning 8 point lead, take that away and we win. Chambers clear knock on and we were penalised, Debelin called for a knock on when he pushed the ball back, we were in for a try out wide too with our over lap.
Overall a solid performance and Mary would have learnt plenty from this game and how to use the interchange a little better, but he does have this team well prepared from the get go and he does not look to make excuses in the press conference. 7/10 for the coach, would have been 8/9 out of 10 with the win. Good first up performance in spite of the home team getting a lopsided penalty count and favourable calls all night. The team has plenty of potential for improvement.