Image Damage and the effects of cross code moves

[rugged]

BTW if the ARU goes a little too far on the poaching ,there will be a relaxation of the NRL salary cap,an all out bidding war involving further pillaging of union juniors which serve no purpose for either code.

Apparently the ARU are all cashed up and ready to bid on juniors next year. It's something they've neglected up til now and many of their juniors go to RL.

 

[taipan]

BTW if the ARU goes a little too far on the poaching ,there will be a relaxation of the NRL salary cap,an all out bidding war involving further pillaging of union juniors which serve no purpose for either code.

Apparently the ARU are all cashed up and ready to bid on juniors next year. It's something they've neglected up til now and many of their juniors go to RL.

The rugby union have had entree to the AIS well before rugby league,so they have not been lying too idle.They also get many rugby league juniors through the GPS and Associated and independent schools system by default or scholarships such as the Kurtley Beales,Giteaus,Henjaks,Hoiles,Freeir ?.Its not one way traffic by any means.
The NRL and ARL will have a war chest also with the new TV contracts in the pipeline regardless of who gets the FTA ,as ch9 received it for est $13m PA,expect at least $30m pa,so the ARU may not be getting such a free go at league juniors ,particularly if the ARU continues to poach high profile league players,also with a new 16th NRL team.

BTW the ARU have been cashed up for more than a couple of years even before the boost by the 2003 WC,such as proceeds of All Black tests at Telstra.

 

[Bulldog-Power]

I think it makes union look piss weak that they need to poach league players (superstarts and junior)

They just cant compete with rugby league when it comes to production of players

the average league player is always harder and can tackle better then the average union player

I lost alot of respect for union when they started all this crap... sure league has poached a few in its time. but we have never paid ridiculous amounts like 600-700k

league will always be the better game and will always make better players

 

[rugged]

BTW the ARU have been cashed up for more than a couple of years even before the boost by the 2003 WC,such as proceeds of All Black tests at Telstra.

Yes, they have been cashed up for some time, but now as part of the new players agreements they are able to offer 16 year olds contracts and scholarships.

All I'm saying is that they will now have something to counter the Broncos and Roosters etc who usually get them out of school because they are able to offer something in the way of money.

 

[The Engineers Room]

The way to arrest this problem is to have the NRL pay the contracts and the clubs to pay the NRL 3.5mill each year for the players. Then set up a points cap whereby players are ranked by performance rather than their pay cheques.

 

[taipan]

BTW the ARU have been cashed up for more than a couple of years even before the boost by the 2003 WC,such as proceeds of All Black tests at Telstra.

Yes, they have been cashed up for some time, but now as part of the new players agreements they are able to offer 16 year olds contracts and scholarships.

All I'm saying is that they will now have something to counter the Broncos and Roosters etc who usually get them out of school because they are able to offer something in the way of money.

With due respect they may well be on contracts/scholarships,however when these expire, they are on the open market and thus available to go to the highest bidder or the best opportunity,in either code.With as expected 15 Oz teams in the NRL by 2007 ,the opportunities(in the form of uni fees ,careers) are there simply by sheer weight of team numbers.

 

[taipan]

BTW the ARU have been cashed up for more than a couple of years even before the boost by the 2003 WC,such as proceeds of All Black tests at Telstra.

Yes, they have been cashed up for some time, but now as part of the new players agreements they are able to offer 16 year olds contracts and scholarships.

All I'm saying is that they will now have something to counter the Broncos and Roosters etc who usually get them out of school because they are able to offer something in the way of money.

With due respect they may well be on contracts/scholarships,however when these expire, they are on the open market and thus available to go to the highest bidder or the best opportunity,in either code.With as expected 15 Oz teams(not just the Broncos and Roosters) in the NRL by 2007 ,the opportunities(in the form of uni fees ,careers) are there simply by sheer weight of team numbers.

 

[rugged]

With due respect they may well be on contracts/scholarships,however when these expire, they are on the open market and thus available to go to the highest bidder or the best opportunity,in either code.With as expected 15 Oz teams(not just the Broncos and Roosters) in the NRL by 2007 ,the opportunities(in the form of uni fees ,careers) are there simply by sheer weight of team numbers.

Usually they only change teams or codes if they don't succeed in the one they are in. Therefore, teams mainly keep the good ones.

 

[ibeme]

Rather than retaliating by poaching RU players, the NRL needs to highlight the fact that RU needs to poach RL players, whereas RL keeps producing despite the poaching from RU.

RU couldn't afford to lose more than a couple of top-line players. The NRL needs to expose and exploit this weakness.

 

[Auckland4ever]

Does image really matter that much?
Dont most people just watch the sports they enjoy? Just because union get some profile league players to convert, doesnt mean league fans are going to do the same. Image means little, substance means everything.

 

[taipan]

With due respect they may well be on contracts/scholarships,however when these expire, they are on the open market and thus available to go to the highest bidder or the best opportunity,in either code.With as expected 15 Oz teams(not just the Broncos and Roosters) in the NRL by 2007 ,the opportunities(in the form of uni fees ,careers) are there simply by sheer weight of team numbers.

Usually they only change teams or codes if they don't succeed in the one they are in. Therefore, teams mainly keep the good ones.

Seniors and top liners yes,schoolboys sorry beg to differ.

 

[taipan]

Does image really matter that much?
Dont most people just watch the sports they enjoy? Just because union get some profile league players to convert, doesnt mean league fans are going to do the same. Image means little, substance means everything.

I think after what happened off field last year,image means a hell of a lot to the public.
Ask the sponsors who put money behind teams with high profile players Lockyer,Johns,Kimmorley,Wing.
Union received more publicity in Oz with the defection of Sailor,Rogers and Tuqiri than they have had for years.As a matter of interest they seem to be the main players thrust onto the newspaper and TV now when union is discussed.
the only thing league crowds continued to grow despite the loss,and I doubt union crowds would have grown greatly without these 3 league converts certainly with the Waratahs ones.

 

[taipan]

Does image really matter that much?
Dont most people just watch the sports they enjoy? Just because union get some profile league players to convert, doesnt mean league fans are going to do the same. Image means little, substance means everything.

People will still watch the sports they enjoy,but imagine if Umaga,or Lomu swapped over to league and played for the Warriors(it will never happen BTW),the image of the Warriors would jump,more sponsors would lob on board,and the All Black name might not have that same be all and end all ring to it.

 

[SaintArsenal]

Does anyone know of a list or anything like that of players who have switched codes, league to union and union to league???
Obviously know of a few but it would be interesting to see all of the info in front of you.
I know there would be alot of variables, Do you start the list from the beginning of league? do you include schoolboy level?
Since Rugby turned professional it has been a topic that has come up alot but I've never actually seen any stats on it. Is there a website that would show me?

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Does image really matter that much?
Dont most people just watch the sports they enjoy? Just because union get some profile league players to convert, doesnt mean league fans are going to do the same. Image means little, substance means everything.

People will still watch the sports they enjoy,but imagine if Umaga,or Lomu swapped over to league and played for the Warriors(it will never happen BTW),the image of the Warriors would jump,more sponsors would lob on board,and the All Black name might not have that same be all and end all ring to it.

I'm surprised the Warriors haven't aggressively targetted any All Blacks or Super 12 players, it would certainly raise League's profile in NZ. The defection of Matthew Ridge and Inga Tuigamala certainly created a fair bit of interest during the '90s. Umaga would have been a great league player but he's too old now, however somebody like Jerry Collins or Sam Tuiotupou would be a great signing and both would have the goods to a succeed in the NRL.

 

[thickos]

Personally I believe the 'big names' of League should be centrally contracted to the governing body, be it the NRL or ESL.

Most clubs have a marquee player that, if they were to leave - especially to Union, it would be a kick in the guts. I'm of the belief that on top of the salary cap monies they receive, they should be getting 'top up money' from the NRL (cap exempt) to stay in league and help the promotion and image of the game. People like Lockyer, Johns, SBW, Gower, Orford, Kimmorley, Webcke etc etc... keep them above and beyond the clutches of that grubby organisation known as the ARU.

While we know that substance beats image in terms of the quality of our game, league needs to work on its marketing to convert the uninitiated and keep league on the front foot.

 

[rugged]

I'm surprised the Warriors haven't aggressively targetted any All Blacks or Super 12 players, it would certainly raise League's profile in NZ.

The difference would be league's salary cap and union's lack of.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I'm surprised the Warriors haven't aggressively targetted any All Blacks or Super 12 players, it would certainly raise League's profile in NZ.

The difference would be league's salary cap and union's lack of.

That would be a problem with All Blacks, but NZ S12 players aren't paid astronomical salaries. Given the fact that some have openly expressed an interest in League I'm sure some could be enticed over.

 

[Auckland4ever]

Does image really matter that much?
Dont most people just watch the sports they enjoy? Just because union get some profile league players to convert, doesnt mean league fans are going to do the same. Image means little, substance means everything.

People will still watch the sports they enjoy,but imagine if Umaga,or Lomu swapped over to league and played for the Warriors(it will never happen BTW),the image of the Warriors would jump,more sponsors would lob on board,and the All Black name might not have that same be all and end all ring to it.

Sure, but unless the quality of the product is there, its all fairly fleeting stuff, as the Warriors found out after John Kirwan switched. You or your team dont perform on the field & before long, noone gives a sh*t & your sponsors dont stick around. Image will only do so much & it will only last so long before people discover the true nature of what lies behind it.
I'm not saying profile league players jumping to union is no big deal, I just dont think the notion that it "looks bad" carries too much weight in terms of damaging RL.

 

[Sea_Eagles_Rock]

Here is what I think could be done.

The combined salary cap of 16 teams is $56m + say an extra $4m for allowable deductions. IE long serving player ect.

So $60m. The NRL should use $6m p.a. from the proceeds of the fta to make an agreement with the players association that it will annually contribute 10% of the players declared salary cap payment per annum to and store it until the player turns 35. There by making it a semi retirement fund. The one proviso to place on the payment is that the player must have stayed loyal to league up until he turns 35. So lets say the average player earns 150k on average over a 15 year career, he will have $225 000 in payments due to him at the age of 35 plus any interest that the payments have earned over the life of the agreement. This carrot then will make players say, well if I want to leave league it's going to cost me that on top of what I already earn.

If a player defects, his cash is then used to sponsor younger players and school grants ect.

The legality of saying the player is not entitled to it would be bound by a contract between the player and the NRL.

This will also put pressure on the clubs via it's players to pay to the salary cap as outside payments will not receive the additional top up payments.