International Rugby League

[Lantana]

Hi Guys

I have had a couple of in depth conversations with people from the NRL in regards to the upcoming World Cup and unfortunately there is a strong opinion in even these circles that it will bomb.

They are saying that Colin Love is basically playing the top heavy exec who issues projected results without a reason or method of getting there. He apparently has no idea when it will be played because the Geoff Carr says we can't have it after the Super League and the NRL clubs are going to vote against it for March. Can you imagine Barret, Lockyer, Minichello, Ryles etc not being able to start the 2008 NRL comp because of an injury picked up in the World Cup?

Colin doesn't know how the qualifiers are going to happen as he isn't completely aware of who is actually polaying the game at the moment and their current status!

He has even bandied the idea of falling back to ....wait for it..... Australia, NZ, England, France and the winner of a Pacific Qualifying series and the Winner of the European Cup. Meaning possibly Tonga or PNG and Wales or Ireland.
That's right guys a 6 team World Invitational.

Can anybody on here tell me in any other level of business, even right down to your corner store, that if you do not perform in your duties then you a releaved of said duties? I cannot understand what is going on, Colin Love, the man who has chaired the death of International Rugby League for 10 years since the 1995 World Cup, seems to be untouchable.

He is voted into the position by... wait for it... the Sydney based clubs. The Chairman at each of the teams in Sydney are the ones who hold power of Colin Love and all he has to do is to continue to 'grease the wheels' of 10+ blokes and he is allowed to suffocate the sport.
MY main issue here is there is no accountability, f**king none. No one is ever responsible when something goes to sh1t.

I look at the current game in the UK and I am seriously envious of the way they have got their off field in order.
Sure us Aussies can bag their on field play but don't forget out here we get first pick of the talent, Rugby League is NO#1 and we pick up a sh*t load of kids purely because of that. Josh Perry, SOO prop - Soccer until 16, Benji Marshall - Int RL - RU -/touch till 16. We should never underestimate the popularity and culture associated with the game of RL in Oz, the Poms don't have it, possibly never will, so for them to continually battle us close is a great acheivement an in a couple of year I am sure the curse will be broken. You can't win for ever, can you Wayne?

Back to UK off field situation, improved marketing of the sport, they have a classic pyramid structure through 5 divisions all lined up Super League, NL1, NL2, NL3, National Conference league, beautiful. They have brought BARLA in from the cold after 30 years of seperation, They are supportive of the massive junior numbers in Scotland, the revival of the game in Cumbria, the constant carry and sell out of the World Club Championship, the implementation and delivery of the European Nations Cup, European Development officers, the geographical spread of the sport through Europe, a thriving Wales competition with the Crusaders in NL2, an ever expanding Irish competition, a minimum amount of home grown players appearing in the ENC competition. Can somebody tyally the amount of Internatioanl games of Rugby League that have been played in the UK this year? Compare that to the 3 in Australia!
I could go on but I would prefer to say that whilst the UK game oversees alot of these directives it is still very much the guys on the ground who actually deliver these programs, the Ian Thompsons, Simon, Coopers, Mark Dingwalls etc etc.

The catalyst for the off filed restructure, refinement and professional delivery can be attributed to the disaster that was the 2000 World Cup. This is when Richard Lewis was bought into right the sinking ship.

When only 28,000 people turn up to the biggest RL test match in Sydney for 3 years in the most Rugby League orientated city on the planet 2 weeks after 80,000 watch to club sides play in the same venue, coupled with the debarcle that is the current plannig for the event, I get the feeling that the 2008 World Cup is heading for a massive fall.

It will be a f**king media circus, but if it does then maybe one positive to come from it will be the Australian Rugby League finally getting the shake sown it has needed for 30 years and maybe just maybe we can get our very own Richard Lewis.

 

[Big Bunny]

What can a person say to that? I agree, Im frustrated too, I wish we had intelligent leaders in this game..?

Nobody will hear or care until it's too late and then they still won't care enough.

 

[yakstorm]

What can one say.... there has been plans put forward, there has been hard work done by some people, particularly the likes of the NRL, and a few in the NSWRL, QRL, the RFL and even NZRL to get a creditable world cup concept in motion....

But unfortunately thanks to a few, most of what Lantana says is correct, in fact I could even some of it is worse from what I've heard...so much potential and hope even as far as 3-4 months back...now things are looking grim....

Maybe the meeting on the weekend will snap some individuals into action.... I don't know...but I'll be honest, my optomistic view is fading...

 

[Copa]

It's a shame we're hosting it... they should have one without us...



if only the 'roos weren't a massive drawcard.

 

[dubby]

I have to admit, i had a feeling that the ARL admin had no idea. It seems that the suits in Sydney have no interest in developing IRL. They are only interested in their clubs, which will ultimately be the death of the game, because club footy should never be bigger than international footy. THis is where RU is attractive for players, travel, international exposure, $$. Much better than being a star in Sydney, Brisbane or Townsville!!
Guys, we the people are sum kind of monster (thanks Metallica). What can we do, as a body, as a group and voice, to kick Mr Love up the pants and get this tournament organised properly? Things need to happen NOW!.
It is upto us, the fans who pay hard earned $ to go to watch these players, and support the game who make or break the future of this sport.
Now is the time to organise international matches that will develop countries and bring them upto standard. Matches need to be played that will give an indication of standard, development, an idea of who is ready and who is not.
Now is the time to plan sponsership, grounds, facilities.
Now is the time to organise countries into pools and play.
Now is the time to organise a commitee to moniter international standard.
Now is the time to plan expenditure.
Now is the time to set a date and advise clubs from both hemispheres.
Now is the time to get serious about it.
Now is the time for the ARL and IRL to be organised into developing roles for each task, ARL to organise OZ, IRL to watch over IRL games and development and to gather all possible countries together to discuss this tournament.
Colin Love....get interested.

 

[Copa]

A few friends of mine who have followed RL their whole life, watch every friday night game, go to heaps of games live, chat about the days before the 6 tackle rule etc etc...

THese guys had no idea the first tri-nations game was on in Sydney.. they asked me where I was off to.. I said I was going to see Australia play NZ and they responded they didn't realise the Wallabies were playing. This was literally a few days before the game... while this isn't exacty a huge sample... it is somewhat disturbing that these life long RL fans had no idea the game was even on.

It's shocking.

I can only imagine how they'd stuff up a RLWC.

 

[Kurt Angle]

Hi Guys

I have had a couple of in depth conversations with people from the NRL in regards to the upcoming World Cup and unfortunately there is a strong opinion in even these circles that it will bomb.

Well lower your expectations to match the expected outcome.

Can you imagine Barret, Lockyer, Minichello, Ryles etc not being able to start the 2008 NRL comp because of an injury picked up in the World Cup?

Correct, I doubt it will be in March.

Colin doesn't know how the qualifiers are going to happen as he isn't completely aware of who is actually polaying the game at the moment and their current status!

I'm not surprised other bodies are keeping Colin Love out of the loop, he does more harm than good.

He has even bandied the idea of falling back to ....wait for it..... Australia, NZ, England, France and the winner of a Pacific Qualifying series and the Winner of the European Cup. Meaning possibly Tonga or PNG and Wales or Ireland.

A bit under whelming, but it would be hard for that to fail.

That's right guys a 6 team World Invitational.

We have a 3 nations which peaks uor interest in october and november. Up grade it to 6 nations, it's what you will get. 5 week round robin + final = 16 games.

He is voted into the position by... wait for it... the Sydney based clubs. The Chairman at each of the teams in Sydney are the ones who hold power of Colin Love and all he has to do is to continue to 'grease the wheels' of 10+ blokes and he is allowed to suffocate the sport.
MY main issue here is there is no accountability, f**king none. No one is ever responsible when something goes to sh1t.

Well business does turn in cycles. In RL, the greatest untapped revenue stream is by far the international aspect of the game. If they neglect it, the business dwindles until someone comes laong with the right stuff, and it picks up again.

Stop worrying about this 'Rugby like is/could be dying'. It won't because RL fans aren't going anywhere.

I look at the current game in the UK and I am seriously envious of the way they have got their off field in order.

Pardon ?

The clubs in the ESL have the RFL bent over a barrel more so than the clubs in Oz have over the ARL. Bennet at least has some repect to stand over the clubs, no GB team official has that.

Sure us Aussies can bag their on field play but don't forget out here we get first pick of the talent, Rugby League is NO#1 and we pick up a sh*t load of kids purely because of that. Josh Perry, SOO prop - Soccer until 16, Benji Marshall - Int RL - RU -/touch till 16. We should never underestimate the popularity and culture associated with the game of RL in Oz, the Poms don't have it, possibly never will, so for them to continually battle us close is a great acheivement an in a couple of year I am sure the curse will be broken. You can't win for ever, can you Wayne?

Rubbish. You don't need pure volume, all you need is critical mass. The UK has over 100,000 players, compared to NZ's 20-25,000, yet NZ harnesses their talent to be near equal at the moment to Australia's 250,000+.

I mean as much as soccer draws their talent, players like Morley, Fielden, Peacock, Sculthorpe and Farrel were never going to be soccer players.

In Australia, RL is the football code least threatened by soccer because of the nature of the sport.

GB loses because they don't have the system in place to continously develop good young players into great champion players.

Back to UK off field situation, improved marketing of the sport, they have a classic pyramid structure through 5 divisions all lined up Super League, NL1, NL2, NL3, National Conference league, beautiful. They have brought BARLA in from the cold after 30 years of seperation, They are supportive of the massive junior numbers in Scotland, the revival of the game in Cumbria, the constant carry and sell out of the World Club Championship, the implementation and delivery of the European Nations Cup, European Development officers, the geographical spread of the sport through Europe, a thriving Wales competition with the Crusaders in NL2, an ever expanding Irish competition, a minimum amount of home grown players appearing in the ENC competition

In Australia we have NRL -> PL & Qld Cup -> JB Cup & BRL -> Sydney District comp/Newcastle comp/CRL/Etc.

Ours is the competition that works seemlessly because small clubs don't compete for table positions with stronger clubs, they feed stronger clubs.

Can somebody tyally the amount of Internatioanl games of Rugby League that have been played in the UK this year? Compare that to the 3 in Australia!

Errhh, if Australia became 6 different countries at federation things would be different. It'slogistically easy for them because of the distance. By area, NSW alone is about 3 times larger than the whole of the UK

Also if PNG was an industrialised nation, then we'd have a tri-nations at our doorstep.

When is the last time a full strength GB side, 2nd or 3rd in the world played France, the 4th best side in the world ??

I could go on but I would prefer to say that whilst the UK game oversees alot of these directives it is still very much the guys on the ground who actually deliver these programs, the Ian Thompsons, Simon, Coopers, Mark Dingwalls etc etc.

So totally out of the hands of the RFL all together.. .so GB is not actually developing the game at all, just hard working individuals who happen to be of British nationality.

The catalyst for the off filed restructure, refinement and professional delivery can be attributed to the disaster that was the 2000 World Cup. This is when Richard Lewis was bought into right the sinking ship.

David Gallop has seen the NRL grow by about 50% since 2000 in terms of crowds and media revenue. Lewis isn't the only bright light you know.

When only 28,000 people turn up to the biggest RL test match in Sydney for 3 years in the most Rugby League orientated city on the planet 2 weeks after 80,000 watch to club sides play in the same venue, coupled with the debarcle that is the current plannig for the event, I get the feeling that the 2008 World Cup is heading for a massive fall.

1) Then for the WC, aim for 20-30,000 stadiums with the final held at SFS or Lang Park. DO we have to get 80,000 at the final because RU did or the NRL gf does ?

Australia has held hockey world cups, Lacrosse world cups, swiming world cups, etc since 2000, they dont get 80,000 crowds, or even the 30,000 crowds we can get.

You think hockey gets fussed it gets 2,500 to a WC final, then people slam into it because of the comparison to RL crowds. Then why should we be fussed about our comparisons to other sports ?

It will be a f**king media circus, but if it does then maybe one positive to come from it will be the Australian Rugby League finally getting the shake sown it has needed for 30 years and maybe just maybe we can get our very own Richard Lewis.

We have it at the club level. Let the NRL run the international game, because they do hold the purse strings of the clubs.

 

[screeny]

Kurt,

It seems that the British clubs, for all their influence on the RL Council, all share the common goal of improving the int'l game as a core strategy - something the NRL clubs honestly don't really hold in that high a regard.

Well, this thread is a little depressing. After almost two years we get to hear that nothing's firm, on the contrary, the whole WC looks close to death, and all because of the ARL (I presume).

Hearing Yakstorm, who's in the know, confirming Lantana's gloomy sentiments, is really dispiriting.

A 6 team WC? That's a failure already! I despair. What's the point of paying Quayle's consultancy firm bundles of cash to get a recommendation and then not implementing it?

Can the NRL clubs actually stop a March WC?

 

[Kurt Angle]

Kurt,

It seems that the British clubs, for all their influence on the RL Council, all share the common goal of improving the int'l game as a core strategy - something the NRL clubs honestly don't really hold in that high a regard.

How can you say the British clubs have the intnernational game as their vision statement ?

The simple fact remains a gentleman's agreement can solve the problem of foreign born players in one easy swoop for the poms.
The so called 'legal reasons' are as applicable as the salary cap.
Instead of the fear of restriciting kolpak's, put in place "80% of each squad must be eligible for GB selection, or sundry parts".
But the spectre of P&R with the drastic consequences for one bad season is too much. No team is going to take a year developing juniors if the consequences are losing 800,000 pounds central funds and sponsorship while be shipped out to NL1.

It is clearly visible that if the development of the national team was a priority, GB would at least play France. The growth of combinations, and hell a win wuold do their confidence some good, they don't have many these days.

Well, this thread is a little depressing. After almost two years we get to hear that nothing's firm, on the contrary, the whole WC looks close to death, and all because of the ARL (I presume).

Hearing Yakstorm, who's in the know, confirming Lantana's gloomy sentiments, is really dispiriting.

Many of us agree Love and Carr are muppets.

A 6 team WC? That's a failure already! I despair. What's the point of paying Quayle's consultancy firm bundles of cash to get a recommendation and then not implementing it?

Can the NRL clubs actually stop a March WC?

Do you still not get it ?

The clubs in both leagues can do anything because they control the purse strings. The clubs get the money, control the money and pay the players.

Money talks, and the clubs are the ones who have it.

The only way for this to change is for the central bodies to have greater control over it.

The clubs won't volunteer to hand it over, I would suggest the only hope would be the RLPA in Australia, and the respective body in England to force the hand of the clubs.

Until then, the only thing the central bodies have is the 'honour' of representing your country, and everything else has to run to suit the clubs.

 

[Woods99]

1. The Australian rugby league scene is by far the strongest in the world. It doesn't really matter why this is so, but it is. The NRL is rich, and doesn't need the rest of the world. The NRL decides the rules. Rules which have been introduced into league over the past few years make the game more and more suitable for highly conditioned full-time athletes, which most of the rest of the rugby league are not.

2. Because of the wealth of the NRL competition, the clubs are able to bring juniors in at an early age and give them full-time training.

3. Therefore, the NRL sets the rules, and the NRL players are almost always far more advanced in physical and technical areas than their competitors.

4. The NRL has absolutely no interest in the international game. Why should it? All the international game can possibly do is to detract from the NRL's domestic competition.

5. If anybody ran a survey, the average NRL fan would put his or her own club's interests far ahead of the international game.

6. Therefore, as I have explained several times here and elsewhere, the international game will go nowhere unless the NRL is prepared to fall on its sword, give up its power, financial clout, and authority over the game, and allow an international body to set the rules, lay down a schedule, and insist that players are available to meet that schedule. And it would help if some of the NRL's riches could be siphoned off to fund the international game.

None of this will happen.

So, accept the situation as it is. The NRL rich will grow a bit richer (not much, because there is increasing competition in Australia from the other three football codes) but the international rugby league poor will definitely stay poor.

Support your club, and forget about international competitions. They will only ever be window-dressing.

 

[screeny]

How can you say the British clubs have the intnernational game as their vision statement ?

The simple fact remains a gentleman's agreement can solve the problem of foreign born players in one easy swoop for the poms.
The so called 'legal reasons' are as applicable as the salary cap.
Instead of the fear of restriciting kolpak's, put in place "80% of each squad must be eligible for GB selection, or sundry parts".
But the spectre of P&R with the drastic consequences for one bad season is too much. No team is going to take a year developing juniors if the consequences are losing 800,000 pounds central funds and sponsorship while be shipped out to NL1.

It is clearly visible that if the development of the national team was a priority, GB would at least play France. The growth of combinations, and hell a win wuold do their confidence some good, they don't have many these days.



Many of us agree Love and Carr are muppets.



Do you still not get it ?

The clubs in both leagues can do anything because they control the purse strings. The clubs get the money, control the money and pay the players.

Money talks, and the clubs are the ones who have it.

The only way for this to change is for the central bodies to have greater control over it.

The clubs won't volunteer to hand it over, I would suggest the only hope would be the RLPA in Australia, and the respective body in England to force the hand of the clubs.

Until then, the only thing the central bodies have is the 'honour' of representing your country, and everything else has to run to suit the clubs.

I understand fine that he who controls the purse strings has the power. That's why FIFA is strong, because it controls massive TV revenues and with them grants to members in the one member-one vote FIFA hierarchy.

Don't put words into my mouth re the Brit clubs. My point is that they have been convinced, by Lewis and co, that a strong int'l game is the best way for them all to maximise their commerical potential (less SL games, more central funding, higher quality etc). The NRL clubs just coulnd't give a sh*t.

As for a gentleman's agreement, I was under the impression that NRL clubs must hand over players named by the ARL for SOO and Test duties. If that's true, then it shows there's a bit more than just a gentleman's agreement on the table (although I do concede that if a club simply said 'no' it could fight in court.)

 

[Kurt Angle]

Don't put words into my mouth re the Brit clubs.

You said this....

It seems that the British clubs, for all their influence on the RL Council, all share the common goal of improving the int'l game as a core strategy - something the NRL clubs honestly don't really hold in that high a regard.

How can I not construe that as you believing the ESL clubs have put international RL as a priority development area ?

My point is that they have been convinced, by Lewis and co, that a strong int'l game is the best way for them all to maximise their commerical potential (less SL games, more central funding, higher quality etc).

I'm aware Lewis has given them his vision statement, but I've yet to see any widescale implementation, or even statement of direction that the clubs are actually going to do this. The ESL clubs at the moment seem to paying lip service and nothing more.

The NRL clubs just coulnd't give a sh*t.

It is widely recognised international RL is an untapped revenue stream for the game in Australia, the NRL clubs however aren't going to risk their assets(players) for a dodgy product. Most NRL clubs have partnership programs with other nations, they are offering support. The problem doesn't lie with the NRL clubs, the problem lies with Carr and Love who have NFI on how to channel resource efficiently, or even have a vision on where they want to go.

I mean, yes it is sad, this lot are now in Europe trying to sell to all parties concerned "Does a 6 team WC sound OK to you guys ?".

It's not Fitzgerland, Doust, Richardson, Rogers doing this.

As for a gentleman's agreement, I was under the impression that NRL clubs must hand over players named by the ARL for SOO and Test duties. If that's true, then it shows there's a bit more than just a gentleman's agreement on the table (although I do concede that if a club simply said 'no' it could fight in court.)

My gentleman's agreement argument was in relation to the lack of top flight players in the ESL, or opportunities available to rising British talent.

I asked a question elsewhere.

This much vaunted 2002(3?) British academy side that beat Australian schoolboys for the first time, how far have they progressed since ?

Are they already looking to be the shining light to lead GB out of the darkness, or is a 36 y/o player like Brad Davis keeping these kids out of a first team sport, because ESL clubs can't risk a losing seaosn on the back of an inexperienced half back ?

 

[League Freak™]

The ARL is a disgrace and do more harm than good to the game.

But to suggest the RFL is any different is silly. They are possibly worse then the ARL.

 

[Kurt Angle]

1. The Australian rugby league scene is by far the strongest in the world. It doesn't really matter why this is so, but it is. The NRL is rich, and doesn't need the rest of the world. The NRL decides the rules. Rules which have been introduced into league over the past few years make the game more and more suitable for highly conditioned full-time athletes, which most of the rest of the rugby league are not.

Once other nations position themselves to be full-time pro's, it's easy enough to adapt, that's not a problem. Only the poms whinge about "different" interpretation, because they can't fault their "world class competition" for not producing the right talent.

France will do the job right.

2. Because of the wealth of the NRL competition, the clubs are able to bring juniors in at an early age and give them full-time training.

Virtually every professionally run sport now does this. Real Madrid had a scout here in Australia for a 9 year old boy last week.

3. Therefore, the NRL sets the rules, and the NRL players are almost always far more advanced in physical and technical areas than their competitors.

You're putting the horse before the cart. Australia is so far ahead because it develops the techniques. There are still constraints to be played which are constant for everybody, such as 13 men on the field, 6 tackles, etc.

The fact remains, ESL wages are higher than NRL wages, they've got money.

If all of a sudden they've developed a superior system that makes their players better, bang, they'll be top of the pile.

The difference is though the NRL won't sit around and whinge for 35 years looking for excuses, they'll get their hands on this system and implement it so they become the best again.

4. The NRL has absolutely no interest in the international game. Why should it? All the international game can possibly do is to detract from the NRL's domestic competition.

RL has a window for the rest of October and November. Any international competition will supplement it. Also an extra revenue stream could mean less games in the club competition, reducing the workload players go through and potentially add longetivity to their careers.

5. If anybody ran a survey, the average NRL fan would put his or her own club's interests far ahead of the international game.

It's not surprising, Australia vs GB for 10 years has been as tough as turfing a cripple out of his wheelchair, what's to get excited about.

Historically however, as recently as the 1970's, Australia vs GB was a BIG deal. It's not as if the NSW/Qld sporting public won't ever get excited. More importantly, increased nationalisation of the media means a national brand is something we can push much more easily into the other states, as opposed to Sydney suburbs.

6. Therefore, as I have explained several times here and elsewhere, the international game will go nowhere unless the NRL is prepared to fall on its sword, give up its power, financial clout, and authority over the game, and allow an international body to set the rules, lay down a schedule, and insist that players are available to meet that schedule. And it would help if some of the NRL's riches could be siphoned off to fund the international game.

None of this will happen.

Never is a long time muppet.

So, accept the situation as it is. The NRL rich will grow a bit richer (not much, because there is increasing competition in Australia from the other three football codes) but the international rugby league poor will definitely stay poor.

Support your club, and forget about international competitions. They will only ever be window-dressing.

Why ? We know you as a rah-rah apoligist. When international RL was big, RU never had a crowd above 15,000 for any game in Australia. The kangaroos in the spotlight will only serve to take the focus away from the Wallabies, the only thing the ARU can sell to the public.

 

[hutch]

after a few years of debating on the upcoming world cup, and getting excited over the potential it has, and the way we would all like it to go, we are now all concerned that it might not even be played. from what was going to be the greatest show of rugby league on earth that we have seen, is heading towards an embarassment. we have so much potential internationally, but the people in the right places dont have one-thousandth of the vision the people on these forums do. unfortunately, some of the things the union troll says are true, but i am still hoping for the best.

 

[Der Kaiser]

The RFL is getting better and to turn a 2 million Pound loss into a million Pound in the bank takes some doing.I know Mr Lewis personally and he is a top bloke who is realoistic.He and his team tho like us all makes mistakes.He is Human.I made him aware of the concerns of many on this Forum and elsewhere about the WC, Website, Qualifications, Italy etc etc.I wont say what his comments back was but he cant force some of these issues alone as other people are involved on the RLIF board.However I was happy with what he said and sometimes there are things that cant be done due to various reasons but they cant be announced to Joe Public.I would suggest you show some patience and some things will be revealed shortly.

Its easy to criticize as we dont know what the full picture and some of the obstacles are.If you feel so strongly about Colin Love or some issues in the game maybe write a letter or send an Email to him and the ARL or the NRL.

 

[Noel]

Rugby League is probably the only sport in the world that does not have an official website to promote the game internationally.
To improve the game internationally what if the top 30 Australian players were employed by an international body, with a lot of corporate backing obviously, aimed at promoting the game globally. A beefed up salary cap in excess of the NRL's would be the key.

 

[Copa]

Its easy to criticize as we dont know what the full picture and some of the obstacles are.If you feel so strongly about Colin Love or some issues in the game maybe write a letter or send an Email to him and the ARL or the NRL.

Have sent something... reply wasn't too crash hot...

 

[hutch]

lets all send something. whats the addy?

 

[League Freak™]

Have sent something... reply wasn't too crash hot...

What was the reply?