Is Mark Craig the worst bowler in International Cricket?

[hineyrulz]

Also a fine slips fielder, and a good bloke

And being nice and a good bloke is all that matters

 

[Twizzle]

yeh, that should help the Kiwis win a few test matches

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

He'd be a good cricketer if he could bowl

If he was younger I would suggest he try and do a Mark Richardson. He was a spinner too who realised he sucked at it and started working on becomming the ploddiest batsman to score consistent runs. Craig just doesn't have that sort of time on his side.

 

[ANTiLAG]

Mark Craig is a more than useful second innings spinner. He goes for runs, true. His bowling average is poor. True. But he still gets about 4 wickets per test on average.

The issue for Craig is the first innings runs he gives away for no wickets. In my opinion he needs to learn defensive bowling (pyjama stuff) to us ein test first innings. His second innings average is good. But he gets wickets in the second innings. He finishes the job for 5th day test wins for NZ and stops the batting side salvaging a draw.

For those that say he does not spin the ball, he does. And you're wrong. He puts side spin on the ball. What is does not do well (yet) is over spin the ball and get bounce wickets. His side spin tweak on a 5th day is as pronounced as any off spinner in world cricket.

His batting and exceptional slip fielding keep him safe in the NZ team for now. He would be a better prospect if he could get his first innings economy rate (when he is not getting turn out of footmarks and wickets) down below 3. His current first innings economy rate is 4.34 at 52. That is terrible. His 4th innings economy rate is 3.45 at 24.37. That is brilliant.

24.37.

Lyon averages 32 in the fourth innings.

 

[shiznit]

yeh, that should help the Kiwis win a few test matches

He won us the levelling test against Pakistan in the UAE...

And he won us the levelling test in England...

Hes no all time great... But he earned his place in the team by winning us test matches.

 

[JJ]

yeh, that should help the Kiwis win a few test matches

already has - on that score his strike rate probably better than Lyon's

 

[JJ]

Mark Craig is a more than useful second innings spinner. He goes for runs, true. His bowling average is poor. True. But he still gets about 4 wickets per test on average.

The issue for Craig is the first innings runs he gives away for no wickets. In my opinion he needs to learn defensive bowling (pyjama stuff) to us ein test first innings. His second innings average is good. But he gets wickets in the second innings. He finishes the job for 5th day test wins for NZ and stops the batting side salvaging a draw.

For those that say he does not spin the ball, he does. And you're wrong. He puts side spin on the ball. What is does not do well (yet) is over spin the ball and get bounce wickets. His side spin tweak on a 5th day is as pronounced as any off spinner in world cricket.

His batting and exceptional slip fielding keep him safe in the NZ team for now. He would be a better prospect if he could get his first innings economy rate (when he is not getting turn out of footmarks and wickets) down below 3. His current first innings economy rate is 4.34 at 52. That is terrible. His 4th innings economy rate is 3.45 at 24.37. That is brilliant.

24.37.

Lyon averages 32 in the fourth innings.

Yup - he's not the best but has done a job

Aussies tend to write off players on the basis of seeing them in one test on an Australian deck.

Prior to this series Williamson was viewed as a relative numpty because he struggled as a 20 or 21 YO in two tests against Aust :lol:

 

[TheParraboy]

Would the kiwis have had a bloke like SOK in their domestic competition averaging around 25 per wicket over the last 5-6 years and only play 1 test?

I don't see much difference between Lyon and Craig to be honest. This thread is a knee jerk reaction to one innings

 

[JJ]

Would the kiwis have had a bloke like SOK in their domestic competition averaging around 25 per wicket over the last 5-6 years and only play 1 test?

I don't see much difference between Lyon and Craig to be honest. This thread is a knee jerk reaction to one innings

Yes on your second point

We had Vetorri, SOK would never have gotten in ahead of him. That said, no, someone with a record like that would be part of the team - UNLESS he's as much of a merkin as it seems, then he'd be jettisoned - as Ryder was belatedly (unfortunately we always struggle to have 6 test class batsmen - even in this good side there's only Latham, Williamson, Taylor, and McCullum - perhaps Neesham, jury's out there)

 

[The Charlatan]

Yup - he's not the best but has done a job

Aussies tend to write off players on the basis of seeing them in one test on an Australian deck.

Prior to this series Williamson was viewed as a relative numpty because he struggled as a 20 or 21 YO in two tests against Aust :lol:

Probably the same people who thought Smith would never make it as a Test player.

 

[JJ]

Probably the same people who thought Smith would never make it as a Test player.

Smith's a bit different - because he looks horrible - Andrew Jones had the same issue - looked awful, Aussie media laughed at him, until he plundered your bowling

Smith still looks vulnerable against a moving ball to me - Williamson just looks so sound in all conditions, and in all forms...

Obviously because you're generally the best, you view performances in your backyard as more important - but Southee, Boult, Henry and Bracewell were all plodders on Day 1 - but pretty clear that on this pitch only Starc isn't plodder

 

[Meth]

But we also produced Warne,MacGill,Grimmett,O'Reilly,Benaud.Noble etc etc. Honestly who is your Greatest ever spinner??? Straight breaking Dan Potter or Mark i need my face punched in Bracewell???

Lyon is no world beater but he is world class compared to the laughable joke you have atm.

Mark Bracewell?

It would be Vettori. And there's no doubt that he's no Warne or Benaud.

Lyon is the best spinner you've had for a while. Since Warne, you've been looking for a decent spinner. Hogg was under appreciated. So too, Lyon. Because they're not Warne.

The names that were mentioned that got thrown the ball in your quest for the new Warnie, you'd have to admit, were laughable.

As for Craig, he's no world beater. He has played well for us at times and he has played poorly for us, like he did in the first Test. His record reflects this. So I don't get the thread.

 

[JJ]

Hiney - let's be clear, we produced Grimmett, he only played for you because at that stage we were not a test nation, and even later only England would play us, Aust seldom did 0 the great Hadlee test in Brisbane was like our 6th or 7th test in Australia. Grimmett played first class cricket for Wellington as a teenager, moved to Australia when he was about 24...

I'd argue Grimmett is our greatest spinner, then there are a bunch of good finger spinners - Vetorri, Bracewell, Howarth, and others

 

[The Charlatan]

Smith's a bit different - because he looks horrible - Andrew Jones had the same issue - looked awful, Aussie media laughed at him, until he plundered your bowling

Smith still looks vulnerable against a moving ball to me - Williamson just looks so sound in all conditions, and in all forms...

Obviously because you're generally the best, you view performances in your backyard as more important - but Southee, Boult, Henry and Bracewell were all plodders on Day 1 - but pretty clear that on this pitch only Starc isn't plodder

Very true RE: Smith and the moving ball. Would like him to spend a season or two in England learning to adapt to the moving ball, won't happen though. Should be identifying up and comers and encouraging them to do a year or two in England to improve our efforts against the moving ball.

Very disappointed with that pitch. Will only get worse at the new stadium. CA seem so intent on devaluing bowlers.