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Is the hooker role over rated?

incomparable

Juniors
Messages
123
Even with danny as the vice captain, he looks very slow at the moment and has made the aussies look the same. When he was on the bench, the team seemed to play better with the quicker players of gower and barrett there.

I'm thinking that anyone can play dummy half these days, so why do we need a purely professional number 9 and play bit players there instead?
 

strewth_mate

Bench
Messages
2,989
Buderus is completely different in club games for some reason, and he disappears in rep games and doesn't justify the form that leads to his selection. Nowadays it seems the way is to put an explosive and agile ball running crowd pleaser in at hooker, like a run-on utility. Maybe they have a 'game plan' for Buderus, but if so it sucks and he's being wasted. I don't know what happens to him, he's only really played a handful of rep games where he has made an impact. He is a classy player that is more than capable of that kind of play, but isn't like Wing or Farah in that he gets his hands on the ball as much as possible as they do. Instead I sit there waiting for him to do something but he never does. It's really, really, really frustrating.

Most positions nowadays seem to be sort of redundant anyway, particularly lock, second row and 5/8, cos all you need is an all-round athlete with some ball skill that plays a free role in attack; the only difference is the number of the back which is a formality. If the point of a hooker today though is as a dynamic utility then we're better off putting someone like Bowen or Hodgson in the jersey, yeah.
 

Kiwi

First Grade
Messages
9,471
When you have Buderus at hooker and Johns at half in rep games, the play doesn't vary from dummy half, it either goes to a forward or Johns, thats it. One just needs to concetrate on the forward or what side of the field Joey is on. The Kiwis picked up on that very well. But once Buderus went off, the play from dummy half varied, it enable good dummy half runs, Lockyer got more ball, and the attack didn't always go down what ever side Johns was. Australia looked dangerous without Buderus.
 

LRC

Guest
Messages
519
It all depends on what part of the game the dummy half comes on at and starts at.
Im sure if they used Buderus as an interchange he would have a lot of impact and lift the tempo.
I think the way now is to use a mobile backrower type at hooker for the first 15 minutes or so ..who can defend well when the openong shots are on..then bring on the attacking weapon when the field opens up a bit ..then the original hooker can play off the backrow..

Young at the dragons...or the roosters used to get good value out of starting crocker at hooker and then bringing wing on...or even the eels...mor eteama are doin it.
 

ledzep

Bench
Messages
2,521
i think australia's only scored the one try with buderus in at hooker so far this series
he's been a passenger
 
Messages
4,975
Hooker is probably the most important position on the field behind the halfback.


Anyone who thinks that Athletes are pushiung aside true footballers should look at who has won the last few Grand Finals and the teams full of athletes that have fallen short.
 

aussies1st

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
28,154
Bring in someone more dynamic like Farah, Pridis even Riddell. Buderus does nothing but tackle.
 
Messages
4,975
I think Buderus looks tired and he needs an off season.

When great players get run down they tend to fall back on just getting through a lot of work.
 

strewth_mate

Bench
Messages
2,989
He is one of Newcastle's most dangerous attacking players when playing for Newcastle. Gets through a lot of work, directs the play and picks the right moments to take a run instead of darting around at random. All it would take is for Buderus to run from dummy half at least once every couple of attacking sets or so and we wouldn't have a problem with him. Surely it isn't that hard, perhaps there's a reason.
 

innsaneink

Referee
Messages
29,365
LRC said:
It all depends on what part of the game the dummy half comes on at and starts at.
Im sure if they used Buderus as an interchange he would have a lot of impact and lift the tempo.
I think the way now is to use a mobile backrower type at hooker for the first 15 minutes or so ..who can defend well when the openong shots are on..then bring on the attacking weapon when the field opens up a bit ..then the original hooker can play off the backrow..

Young at the dragons...or the roosters used to get good value out of starting crocker at hooker and then bringing wing on...or even the eels...mor eteama are doin it.

I think you may be right....easier to look good when coming on fresh after 25/30 mins or whatever it was, against a big pack that would be tiring.
 

Harko

Juniors
Messages
238
A lot of people do not rate this idea but it is absolutely awesome. Matty Bowen at 9 off the bench.

Muzz has done it plenty of times with great success, he has the vision, passing game, quick feet as well as a quick game!

Still cannot get over him not being picked. He is the perfect bloke to take on tour!
 

brendothejet

First Grade
Messages
7,998
The hooker is the most important bloke on the paddock IMO.

It is his role to get to every play the ball and make sure the flow is kept so that halfbacks and five eights work does not go to waste. The hooker also directs the forward pack leaving the backs to organsie themselves.

A GOOD specialist hooker can make a hell of a difference. riddell and young are two awesome hookers. if craig wing just stayed in one position long enough he'd be good too.

buderus is a good hooker but doesnt show up in aus matches.

Lets face it the australian team was picked in 1999 and hasnt been changed since.
 

aussies1st

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
28,154
Harko said:
A lot of people do not rate this idea but it is absolutely awesome. Matty Bowen at 9 off the bench.

Muzz has done it plenty of times with great success, he has the vision, passing game, quick feet as well as a quick game!

Still cannot get over him not being picked. He is the perfect bloke to take on tour!

I agree, he could provide the spark Wing usually does and he can also play anywhere in the backline basically.
 

Mr. Fahrenheit

Referee
Messages
22,132
brendothejet said:
The hooker is the most important bloke on the paddock IMO.

It is his role to get to every play the ball and make sure the flow is kept so that halfbacks and five eights work does not go to waste. The hooker also directs the forward pack leaving the backs to organsie themselves.

A GOOD specialist hooker can make a hell of a difference. riddell and young are two awesome hookers. if craig wing just stayed in one position long enough he'd be good too.

buderus is a good hooker but doesnt show up in aus matches.

Lets face it the australian team was picked in 1999 and hasnt been changed since.

agreed completely, ... Priddis, Riddell, C.Smith are just a few tradional hookers who do their jobs brilliantly, they all would not look out of place in a Kangaroo Jersey... Buderus is out of form, i expect him to make a surge next season after an abysmal tri-nations
 

auckwarriors

Juniors
Messages
53
The value of the hooker position doesn't rotate around the quality of one player either. The hooking role is not overly intensive skillfully, though it has idiosyncrasies that are largely invisible to somebody not familiar with the role, but requires an enormous mental application to ensure the ruck is used best to the team's advantage. The hooker must be aware of what each defender's defensive capabilities and tendancies are, running the attacking play consequently so as to allow for your forwards to dominate; reach the advantage line and make hands and knees for a quick play the ball. A player with good skills, i.e. a crisp pass or strong running game will not necessarily make a good hooker; a rake that simply passes the ball anywhere (as is the case with most manufactured hookers) will not allow forwards to dominate because they'll only spasmodically operate at the right defensive points and times, the halfback and backline consequently suffering greatly. The hooker impacts the team more than most realise.
 

bartman

Immortal
Messages
41,022
You don't get a lot of time to rest or stop thinking at hooker, probably less spare time than a halfback. Since the scrum specialities of the role were taken out of the game, it's not surprising coaches are now looking to share the role and bringing someone off the bench to spark things or provide variety.

But you still need someone to do that hard grind there at the start of the game - not often your hooker gets to show too much flair in the first 20 minutes, if they do it can be a sign of a walkover...
 
Messages
34
i can't believe the flack buderus is taking on this forum. the hooker's job in defense is as important as his job in attack and buderus has been getting through a mountain of physical defense in the middle of the ruck. He doesn't need to overplay his hand in attack (as he would when playing for the knights) when he has johns, lockyer, minichiello and gasnier in the same team
 
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10,949
incomparable said:
I'm thinking that anyone can play dummy half these days, so why do we need a purely professional number 9 and play bit players there instead?
Even Riddel plays there :lol:
 

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