It's France v GB

[deluded pom?]

Look, I'm really happy this is going ahead and as such I shouldn't complain, however I need to say this as it's a bugbear of mine. I hope it doesn't offend or misinterpreted as I am a massive supporter of International rugby league..

Why are we hoping for a 15,000 crowd?

The weekend is free of Superleague matches. The French have now had the benefit of a decent amount of their players having 2 years in the ESL..

We all know if this was a match between England and France with a certain other code, this would get 60,000 at Twickenham...

Why the hell isn't the RFL pulling out all stops to promote this from day 1. Compare the 2 matches. Yawnion would be typical Northern Hemisphere rugby. stop start penalty after penalty after penalty. They should have a TV commercial with the best hits and tries of the ESL (with plenty of Catalans imagery) and put on display the best of the Greatest Game....

15,000? No way. With the right promotion and support, we should be attempting to fill a 40,000 stadium...

Let's not forget, this is NOT likely to be a 52-12 flogging. Surely with French involvment in the ESL were looking at a GB victory of say 32-20 or something like that.

That's my say.

Get real. The French have only just begun their second season in SL. How many non French players are regulars in the Catalans starting seventeen? I'm sorry but as much as you build them up France are not a big draw in Britain. The rugby union have the full weight of the British media behind them. Free advertising of their games are on national free to air tv that is available to every home in the U.K. that has a tv i.e. approx 30 million homes at a conservative estimate. Rugby league has coverage of their internationals on Sky. A tv audience of around 200,000 watch the top games on Sky. The majority of the population don't even know games are even on let alone have an interest in them. Lastly , how can an Aussie preach to the RFL about getting big crowds to their international matches? I'd think that if Australia played France then you'd struggle to get a crowd of 15,000. Especially in the "rugby league hotbed" that is Sydney. The last time you played them in Australia you had to play it at Parramatta stadium.

 

[East Coast Tiger]

Yeah. Unfortunately crowds for internationals in England have been somewhere between moderate and terrible since Super League. They couldn't get 15,000 to last year's game v NZ. If they were still getting 40 or 50k for Ashes Tests it might be a different story but those days are long gone. Hopefully this will be played in France but if not it will be taken to a good stadium in England that's not too big and will hopefully become a regular annual event. Ideally France will give GB a hell of a scare and show they can be competitive. That might at least get a few more in next year, though it will have to be against England. Crowds in Brisbane have been great in recent years largely because the Kiwis are seen as a realistic threat to the Roos now. Hopefully the British public will start to think the same of France.

 

[LordLeague]

....and that Parra Stadium crowd for the French test in 1994 was 27,918. It is still the ground record and with the recent capacity reduction to 20,000, will remain the record for a very long time.

LordLeague

 

[bartman]

The rugby union have the full weight of the British media behind them. Free advertising of their games are on national free to air tv that is available to every home in the U.K. that has a tv i.e. approx 30 million homes at a conservative estimate. Rugby league has coverage of their internationals on Sky. A tv audience of around 200,000 watch the top games on Sky. The majority of the population don't even know games are even on let alone have an interest in them.

I have to say, that's a point that's probably lost on people until they have actually lived in England. Rugby league is not a majority sport here, no games at all are on free-to-view stations (save for a couple of Challenge Cup games buried in the BBC schedules), and only two of the six weekly Super League games get any TV coverage at all (on Sky Channel).

Rugby Union gets a bigger run in the press, probably because of the four/five/now six nations played on an annual basis, plus the matching domestic club competitions to keep up with as part of the deal, compared to Super League's one competition. Only the smallest selling of the 14 national newspapers tend to carry articles on league, and these are occasional rather than every day, and you have to dig deep to find them. London is such a big city that you can spend months there without even realising where Harlequins play or seeing any league newspaper/magazine in a shop, unless you're in the know.

It's alright assuming this game should draw 40,000, but reality dictates that it will be much less than that. If it's in France it should be played in a developmental region like Toulouse, or given to Perpignan as a reward. If it's in England, forget London if you want a crowd - they've already got the 80,000 Challenge Cup final in August. The 70,000 Grand Final is in Manchester, the end of year tests are in Huddersfield, Hull and Wigan, with the All Golds match is in Warrington... this game feels like it might be held at Bradford or Leeds?

 

[Coastbloke]

Get real. The French have only just begun their second season in SL. How many non French players are regulars in the Catalans starting seventeen? I'm sorry but as much as you build them up France are not a big draw in Britain. The rugby union have the full weight of the British media behind them. Free advertising of their games are on national free to air tv that is available to every home in the U.K. that has a tv i.e. approx 30 million homes at a conservative estimate. Rugby league has coverage of their internationals on Sky. A tv audience of around 200,000 watch the top games on Sky. The majority of the population don't even know games are even on let alone have an interest in them. Lastly , how can an Aussie preach to the RFL about getting big crowds to their international matches? I'd think that if Australia played France then you'd struggle to get a crowd of 15,000. Especially in the "rugby league hotbed" that is Sydney. The last time you played them in Australia you had to play it at Parramatta stadium.

I think some are missing the point of my post.

I am aware of the media attitude towards rugby league in Europe.

What I am trying to say, is that this match deserves to be up there with yawnion Tests.

Recent matches against France between Australia and NZ have been better than expected and the French should hold their own against GB.

It really is up to the RFL to promote this in a way that exposes the difference between the codes. It's time to stop accepting Tests at rundown stadiums in front of 13,000 people. What is the point of it? All I'm asking is someone at the RFL to get off their fat freebie arses and try and promote what should be the pinnacle of the sport. Test matches.

I am also fully aware of the flaws in the International game in Australia, and in particular, Sydney crowds. I am just as critical of this issue as I am of the Test crowd for the above Test. The fact, is the ARL did not promote the final at the SFS as it should have, relying on word of mouth and a small 1/4 page ad in the Sydney tabloid rag, the Daily Telegraph.

So, all I'm saying is that as fans we should not accept these small crowds. However, while we have administrators in both hemispheres that are only interested in the club game, we will continue to get small crowds at Tests.

We have the product, there is no doubt about that. Until we get a John O'Neil to run the sport we will remain ecstatic at 15,000 crowds for a match 10 times as exciting and skillfull than a yawnion borefest...

 

[bartman]

What I am trying to say, is that this match deserves to be up there with yawnion Tests.

Recent matches against France between Australia and NZ have been better than expected and the French should hold their own against GB.

Fair enough.

It really is up to the RFL to promote this in a way that exposes the difference between the codes. It's time to stop accepting Tests at rundown stadiums in front of 13,000 people. What is the point of it? All I'm asking is someone at the RFL to get off their fat freebie arses and try and promote what should be the pinnacle of the sport. Test matches.

But aren't the RFL still in hock for having tried to do just that with a World Cup 7 years ago? The Sky deal doesn't extend much past the glamour clubs competing in Super League, maybe with Setanta nudging the NRL rights, the RFL can expect a better return the next time the Super League rights are negotiated (for 2009?), and have a war chest to do some nation-wide promotion for this and other games of merit.

So, all I'm saying is that as fans we should not accept these small crowds. However, while we have administrators in both hemispheres that are only interested in the club game, we will continue to get small crowds at Tests.

We have the product, there is no doubt about that. Until we get a John O'Neil to run the sport we will remain ecstatic at 15,000 crowds for a match 10 times as exciting and skillfull than a yawnion borefest...

Personally I feel that the RFL is less solely interested in the club game than their NRL counterparts. Just that it doesn't have the overarching power structure or the money to do much more than it does promotion wise at the moment. I'm not sure John O'Neill at the RFL would make much of a difference under those conditions, unfortunately we have to be patient. But someone definitely does need to spark some change around the International game at NRL/ARL headquarters - the RLIF website still shows the pre-World Club Challenge article as a feature!

 

[deluded pom?]

Give it to Donny if it's played in Britain. A brand new stadium capable of holding 15,000 which is more than will attend if the game's at Bradford or Leeds.

 

[winnyason]

looks the facts are international footy has went backwards in the uk since they went to summer no more big tours by the kiwis or aussies in there season only in there off season.

But hey the reason to bring catalans in was for a nothern hempishere opponent was not It?

no doubt the RFL are weighing up whether to take match to doncaster where a reasonal crowd is possible or maybe wigan just don't know or take the game to toulouse or even bordeux but the profits would be split if a crowd of 20 thousand turns up.

look injuires have not helped the frogs mounis, fakir & raguin all in doubt they need there guys to be a show at all.

 

[deluded pom?]

If 20,000 turn up, no matter where it's played, I'll show my ar$e in Hammonds' window ;-)

 

[langpark]

The match should be in Toulouse!

Stade Municipal: (36k, a bit ambitious, but I think it's fair to say it's been AGES since France have hosted this fixture, so we never know how they'll respond to it, if we think big, we won't sell ourselves short)

or the less ambitious Stade Ernest Wallon: (20k)

 

[Coastbloke]

If 20,000 turn up, no matter where it's played, I'll show my ar$e in Hammonds' window ;-)

Of course 20,000 won't show up.

That's my point.

It's been announced. The next we'll hear about it will the full time score..

And that, my friend, is the fault of the RFL.

 

[Coastbloke]

The last 2 were:

1994 - GB def France 12 to 4 in Carcassone. crowd: 6200

2001 - GB def France 42 to 12 in Agen. Crowd: 10,000

......And before Les Cats in Super League...

 

[AlbertRosenfeld]

It would be wonderful to hold it in Toulouse. But if it is held anywhere in France it will be the FFRXIII that will be organising and promoting it, and that will be hopeless. Remember that while the FFRXIII President, Nicolas Larrat, works at his law firm in Toulouse, he does not get his hands dirty --- on rugby league that is. The Federation office is in Paris and its small staff works in Paris, and rarely goes to Toulouse. Even if they did show up there for a few days, they would not have a clue how to promote such a game. All the previous Tests France vs Australia and NZ in 2004 and 2005 were held in Toulouse and Perpignan but drew under 10,000. (I was at three of those games).

From a financial point of view I think that it would be better to hold the 2007 GB vs France game in Britain. If the RFL were to publicise it, and hold the match at a good stadium, they could get 20,000 or more to attend in Manchester or London.

However the other side of the argument is that if a Test were held in France it would have a chance of attracting new "big event" spectators to the game, and maybe even attract publicity from the French national press. Also the new hard core Catalans support base would increase interest over what it was in those pre-Super League years. But those "add on" effects would be marginal to attracting a crowd of 20,000 I think, absent massive pre match advertising.

Incidentally, I think that in 2009 at least one of the Four Nations games should be held in London, at Wembley, and that could draw the 50,000-66,000 that they have drawn there in the 1990s. By 2009 the rugby league fanbase in England will have had three Challenge Cup games back at Wembley. Wembley will have been accepted as the rugby league "Big Event" home away from home. If in autumn 2009 it was Australia vs England as the series opener, and later England vs France, they could draw big crowds to Wembley.

I would think that the admission of Toulouse to Super League in 2009 would increase the on field chances of the French national side and increase interest in it among English fans. Obviously it would also increase the interest in rugby league among French sports fans. French rugby union regularly attracts 70,000 people to international matches in Paris and Marseille. Anything under 30,000 attending a rugby league Test in France will be a bit of an embarrassment to French rugby league. So if it was my decision, I would keep the GB vs France games in Britain till 2009, and then hold two a year --- one of them in Toulouse and one in Wembley.

 

[screeny]

Albert, I happen to think the FFR (or was it Paul Faires's mob? I don't know) did a good job promoting/organising the Federations Shield last year. The two matches in France were very well attended.

 

[International RL]

Albert, I happen to think the FFR (or was it Paul Faires's mob? I don't know) did a good job promoting/organising the Federations Shield last year. The two matches in France were very well attended.

crowds?

 

[screeny]

crowds?

Dunno but full grandstands/grounds.

 

[AlbertRosenfeld]

Albert, I happen to think the FFR (or was it Paul Faires's mob? I don't know) did a good job promoting/organising the Federations Shield last year. The two matches in France were very well attended.

Screeny, if the FFR are handing over promotion of the game to "Paul Faires's mob" (World Rugby League) then I would reconsider my position, because I know that Paul Faires is a real professional. That would be very good news indeed.

However I still have the nagging concern that because the French public still don't take our game seriously enough -- as reflected in lack of coverage in the national press --- and less than 30,000 at a Test held in a big city (eg Toulouse) is an embarassment to the game, we should hold the Tests in the UK. Once Toulouse are up and running with a core crowd in the 8,000 range and Catalans retaining a similar number (with those crowds including maybe 2,000 from the Aude region going to both), then I think we can consider likely that we will top 20,000 for a Test and maybe build up over time to hit 30,000. But right now Toulouse remains a huge rugby union town that doesn't take rugby league very seriously, and won't till it has a professional SL team.

On the other hand the French are entitled to see their national team in action, and if held in the summer (June) we could get a couple of thousand English fans going down for a rugby league holiday --- which will boost the attendance and takings, enliven the match atmosphere, and give the local businesses and politicians something to think about.

You have put me in two (or three) minds on this now.

 

[langpark]

crowds?

i think each match drew 8000, in places that weren't considered league heartlands.

 

[bartman]

The more I think about it now, the more I think it will be played in France. The RFL through their website just released a glossy magazine style events calendar promo thing for tickets to their marquee matches (finals, internationals), with no mention of this mid-year game. If it was to be played in England I 'd have thought they would have included it there, or held the issue of the calendar until the details were confirmed?

If it is held in France they should confirm the venue details soon, if they are hoping for any English people to turn up for a holiday weekend. Is it possible this game could be taken to the region beyond Perpignan as a reward, but somewhere easy for Brit fans to travel to? Catalans played a game or two at Carcassone last year...

 

[deluded pom?]

There's no point including this fixture in brochures that were sent out two months ago because up until this week no one knew who the opposition was going to be.