It's NOT a mess

[possm]

A mess is what it is and it's Millward's fault. Millward agreed to hold off on the Packer contract until Dugan's deal was completed. Even though Packer wanted to say and our Club wanted him to stay. Our offer was 500k-600k. We could have signed him in November. Millward could have continued on his merry way recruiting and retaining. Millward never really wanted for Dugan to stay and should just pulled his offer and recruited a replacement.

Dugan always wanted 1m. The Dragons initial offer was 700k but increased it to 850k. When Dugan refused the 850k, the offer should have been pulled.

It is a mess because now there are less options in the market place to replace these two key first graders. We were on the cusp of having a GF winning side with Hunt coming next year. If Millward can't recruit like for like or better, it will be a matter of re-building for another few years.

 

[Dragon Revival]

Our forwards and halves are okay but the three-quarter line is a mess as follows:-
Dugan-Representative player leaving
Nightingale- Approaching retirement and should be signed for one more year to cover wing and full-back. Why the delay as he is cap exempt.
Lafai-Excellent form and should be resigned. Why the delay as we have the money?
Aitken- Signed but can not defend or pass. Get Johnny Raper to sort him out.
MacDonald-Signed but erratic, slow, has defensive lapses and is poor under the high ball with little agility.
Mann- In-form utility player inexplicably unsigned.
Milne-Capable player
unsigned.
Hutchison-Promising player unsigned despite utility value.
FaiFai Loa-Experienced winger unsigned.
Our backline player retention and recruitment is a mess.
Millward has no runs on the board in this regard and no lower grade backs are knocking the door down apart from maybe Herbert.

 

[OzDragon]

Was Hornby a "great" halfback?

Of course. Great captain too.

 

[brokendigit]

you will never win the comp without a great half

2010 called, and would like to beg to differ.

 

[SBD82]

Was Hornby a "great" halfback?

Yes. You wash your mouth out.

 

[willzy91]

Our side is not a mess. Next year we should end up with a better halves combo, we will still have a good forward pack, and maybe, just maybe we will have a fullback who can pass. For the first time in years we have had a good start to the season so Mary is doing something right.

Any residual mess is entirely from the NRL, the player managers and because of uncertainty with what the new salary cap will be. I take issue with the idea that somehow we could have signed Packer or Duges at a bargain price. Lets say Packer was offered $400k a season. The first thing he does is consult his manager who tells him he can get him $500k from another club, or $600k if he makes the NZ side. It is a nonsense to think we can snap up big game players cheaply, because everyone knows the cap is going up, especially the managers, who are happy to prey on player greed. Players hang out hoping for a better deal -sometimes they're successful like Packer and Merrin, sometimes not like Rein and Benji.

Any mess is entirely the fault of the NRL. I think our club has done a reasonably good job of negotiating around the mess.

Agree with you completely here, need to get out of the notion that it's always the clubs fault, yes there were some key factors that could have been dealt with better from the club (ie. calling it either fullback money or centre money) but you also have to remember you have two players who are moving into the back end of their careers now and job security it vital for them. St George weren't prepared to offer long term contracts as they have done in the past and it has been their downfall. So as players I respect their decision to look elsewhere for that long term contract. We will fill those two positions for next year, I feel the fullback position will be filled within and the prop position I'm hearing will be filled by an outside marquee player. Hang in there lads, the best is still yet to come, just look at where we were 5 years ago, we are building a roster that can in either 2018 or 2019 challenge for the title.

 

[Blood Shot Eyes]

Love it how you try to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.
The loss of Dugan and Packer is monumental and will set us back 3 years.
It clearly shows that recruitment had no foresight to get their signatures early i.e. well before their existing contracts ran out.
Delaying their contracts until after the announcement of Hunt was always going to spell disaster and should never have happened.
Winning 6 out of 7 at the start of the season was the icing on the cake for their managers to go hard and the subsequent loss of games without Dugan reinforced it.
Good recruitment would have been to recognise their worth and get their contract extensions done straight after last years debacle.
The big announcement re the signings of Dufty, Leilua and Field the joy amongst the fans has led to exactly what?
Very little or no game time in 1sts for them despite obvious opportunities presenting themselves.
Then to top that off the loss of Dugan and Packer, no word on Milne or Mann who continue to be dicked around.
The NRL is completely f**ked and we are even more so.

I agree OT.....these are my thoughts on the player transfer circus.....the salary cap originated because it was supposed to stop the wealthiest clubs from signing all the best players, thus making a lopsided competion which in real terms meant a lot of dissatisfaction for those affected clubs and their supporters....now we have this debacle today of players willy nilly signing with other clubs and it being announced early in that year when those players are still contracted and in some cases the player being allowed to go and not completing the season.....this not only brings disharmony to the team but is very disappointing to the fans......if you look at realistically most teams that are performing well usually have good players in them which in turn means that the fans are obviously happy and the NRL get bums on seats from those clubs....now because of those good players and if their contracts are up for renewal they are demanding more money to resign but because of salary cap restraints the clubs cant afford then so they are poached by other teams....so as supporters then we are only left with a one or two year window when we can be performing at our best.....doesnt really make sense anymore does it

 

[Old Timer]

I agree OT.....these are my thoughts on the player transfer circus.....the salary cap originated because it was supposed to stop the wealthiest clubs from signing all the best players, thus making a lopsided competion which in real terms meant a lot of dissatisfaction for those affected clubs and their supporters....now we have this debacle today of players willy nilly signing with other clubs and it being announced early in that year when those players are still contracted and in some cases the player being allowed to go and not completing the season.....this not only brings disharmony to the team but is very disappointing to the fans......if you look at realistically most teams that are performing well usually have good players in them which in turn means that the fans are obviously happy and the NRL get bums on seats from those clubs....now because of those good players and if their contracts are up for renewal they are demanding more money to resign but because of salary cap restraints the clubs cant afford then so they are poached by other teams....so as supporters then we are only left with a one or two year window when we can be performing at our best.....doesnt really make sense anymore does it

100% BSE
The NRL have opened a can of worms and it is causing massive unrest with players, clubs, fans and unfortunately the media wankers get to dine out on it.
With the early announcement of next years movements fans start turning on individual players and even booing players whilst they are still turning out in your colours.
This game just lurches from crisis to crisis and I look at the boof heads running the code and just scratch my head as to how they ever keep their jobs.

 

[hazzbeen]

100% BSE
The NRL have opened a can of worms and it is causing massive unrest with players, clubs, fans and unfortunately the media wankers get to dine out on it.
With the early announcement of next years movements fans start turning on individual players and even booing players whilst they are still turning out in your colours.
This game just lurches from crisis to crisis and I look at the boof heads running the code and just scratch my head as to how they ever keep their jobs.

Old Timer , you can throw our lot in there as well .....

 

[Mark D]

I agree this isn't a mess and I see the silver lining in Dugan leaving... Let's remember after last season most had Dugan including himself playing in the centres with Matt D playing FB. There were question marks around Dugans ability to ball play and those questions still remain.. He is a whole hearted player granted but we will move on.

I really see this as a good thing... We have options for FB (Widdop Matt D Mann ) for example

Loosing Packer hurts more but we will get over it.

I don't see the big deal in loosing Dugan and actually feel it won't be so rosey at the Sharks for him (kinda like BMoz and the dogs move)

Move on the nucleus of the team is outstanding and with Hunt coming I see top 4 for us..

 

[Old Timer]

Agree with you completely here, need to get out of the notion that it's always the clubs fault, yes there were some key factors that could have been dealt with better from the club (ie. calling it either fullback money or centre money) but you also have to remember you have two players who are moving into the back end of their careers now and job security it vital for them. St George weren't prepared to offer long term contracts as they have done in the past and it has been their downfall. So as players I respect their decision to look elsewhere for that long term contract. We will fill those two positions for next year, I feel the fullback position will be filled within and the prop position I'm hearing will be filled by an outside marquee player. Hang in there lads, the best is still yet to come, just look at where we were 5 years ago, we are building a roster that can in either 2018 or 2019 challenge for the title.

Sorry your post doesn't make sense to me.
You say that Packer & Dugan are moving into the back end of their careers yet we offer $1m a year for Hunt for the next 5 years and he is older than both Dugan and Packer and will be 33 at the end of his contract.
Packer and Dugan are just entering the best part of their careers and will be top performers for the next 3-4 years and sorely missed.

 

[2010]

2010 called, and would like to beg to differ.

I never called

 

[The Damo]

Sorry your post doesn't make sense to me.
You say that Packer & Dugan are moving into the back end of their careers yet we offer $1m a year for Hunt for the next 5 years and he is older than both Dugan and Packer and will be 33 at the end of his contract.
Packer and Dugan are just entering the best part of their careers and will be top performers for the next 3-4 years and sorely missed.

Well halves tend to have longer careers than props so not too strange. And if Dugans best years are ahead it's unlikely to be at fullback. Centre very possible.

 

[BringTheNoise]

possm is right, Packer should have been extended last year.

Unlike Widdop and Lafai, Packer already had the runs on the board and had shown he was worthy of a new contract. The scary part is that as a young front rower his best football is well ahead of him.

Why Millward waited this long to enter negotiations is beyond me. Had we made a good offer in November (well before the Tigers "big 4" made their moves) we probably would have retained him.

Let's see if Millward can rest his hat on Hunt and a heap of juniors in 2018 and beyond. Time will tell.

 

[borat]

I agree OT.....these are my thoughts on the player transfer circus.....the salary cap originated because it was supposed to stop the wealthiest clubs from signing all the best players, thus making a lopsided competion which in real terms meant a lot of dissatisfaction for those affected clubs and their supporters....now we have this debacle today of players willy nilly signing with other clubs and it being announced early in that year when those players are still contracted and in some cases the player being allowed to go and not completing the season.....this not only brings disharmony to the team but is very disappointing to the fans......if you look at realistically most teams that are performing well usually have good players in them which in turn means that the fans are obviously happy and the NRL get bums on seats from those clubs....now because of those good players and if their contracts are up for renewal they are demanding more money to resign but because of salary cap restraints the clubs cant afford then so they are poached by other teams....so as supporters then we are only left with a one or two year window when we can be performing at our best.....doesnt really make sense anymore does it

Because players signing with other clubs has never happened in the past hey.........

The only thing that's changed is it's happening earlier in the year as clubs now want to plan their roster. And managers use leaking deals as standard tools in negotiation.

If there was a transfer window nothing would change other than the confirmation would happen at one time. It would actually be worse as the speculation would go on and on without a signature.

Got to give it to the Tigers/Cleary. Whinging about the player market whilst being the most active. Never hear the the best run clubs complaining about the player market....I wonder why

 

[possm]

Agree with you completely here, need to get out of the notion that it's always the clubs fault, yes there were some key factors that could have been dealt with better from the club (ie. calling it either fullback money or centre money) but you also have to remember you have two players who are moving into the back end of their careers now and job security it vital for them. St George weren't prepared to offer long term contracts as they have done in the past and it has been their downfall. So as players I respect their decision to look elsewhere for that long term contract. We will fill those two positions for next year, I feel the fullback position will be filled within and the prop position I'm hearing will be filled by an outside marquee player. Hang in there lads, the best is still yet to come, just look at where we were 5 years ago, we are building a roster that can in either 2018 or 2019 challenge for the title.

I prefer to look where we were 10 years ago. We had built a roster for 2018 and now must rebuild without a marquee fullback in our spine. We should have replaced Dugan with Hayne and kept Packer. That would be a premiership winning team.

 

[Dragonsteve2]

100% BSE
The NRL have opened a can of worms and it is causing massive unrest with players, clubs, fans and unfortunately the media wankers get to dine out on it.
With the early announcement of next years movements fans start turning on individual players and even booing players whilst they are still turning out in your colours.
This game just lurches from crisis to crisis and I look at the boof heads running the code and just scratch my head as to how they ever keep their jobs.

OT, You have certainly expressed a level of exasperation with the NRL that I share. Well posted, sir!

However I don't share the depth of your feelings towards the retention and recruitment situation at the Dragons. I am sad to see Packer go. At the same time I have been impressed by Lawrie and Kerr in the NSW Cup games I have seen this year. I also think Jacob Hind would be a useful bench player. Two years ago I saw quite a bit of Packer in the NSW Cup and these guys are not that far from the form he was displaying then. No surprise it was Shannon Wakeman rather Packer who was the real standout!

Sad also that it now appears that Dugan is leaving. But it appears he has been absolutely determined to screw as much out of the club as possible without regard to the fact that all players in the club must feed from the one trough. Some players make demands that the club just cannot meet. Bird was no doubt in the same boat- wanting an assured spot in First Grade that we could not offer. Presumably he also made demands this year that the Sharks have been unable to meet.

Perhaps the problem with Dugan was being overpaid 4 years back. Having said that and as good a player as he has been at the Dragons, I think he was a more dynamic attacking player early in his career at the Raiders. I do think he would have been tremendous next year at right centre. Crazy if he ends up playing centre at the Sharks!

Dufty, Field and Mann all offer qualities in the FB role. Let's hope one of them emerges as a real champion. Certainly time now to get the off contract backs - Mann, Lafai and Milne - re-signed.

 

[Old Timer]

I prefer to look where we were 10 years ago. We had built a roster for 2018 and now must rebuild without a marquee fullback in our spine. We should have replaced Dugan with Hayne and kept Packer. That would be a premiership winning team.

Come on Possm f**k Hayne, Johnstone and all those wankers.
When Dugan went down it should have immediately been Mann or Dufty to FB to see what we had in the bank already.
Our morons chose Nighty, so we are still in the dark as to whether we need a replacement or not and then people start calling immediately for outsiders to come in.
Why did we retain Dufty which was so loudly applauded just 3 months ago?
We agonise over the treatment Mann has been given and we acknowledge he is good footballer but based on 2 games at FB we have discarded him forever which makes no sense.
FMD forget about what we might buy and have a look at what we have that is of use to us and just might be the next big thing.
Oh yes that's right we just did that and we promoted KFFL to first grade outstanding work by our coaching and retention staff.

 

[possm]

OT, You have certainly expressed a level of exasperation with the NRL that I share. Well posted, sir!

However I don't share the depth of your feelings towards the retention and recruitment situation at the Dragons. I am sad to see Packer go. At the same time I have been impressed by Lawrie and Kerr in the NSW Cup games I have seen this year. I also think Jacob Hind would be a useful bench player. Two years ago I saw quite a bit of Packer in the NSW Cup and these guys are not that far from the form he was displaying then. No surprise it was Shannon Wakeman rather Packer who was the real standout!

Sad also that it now appears that Dugan is leaving. But it appears he has been absolutely determined to screw as much out of the club as possible without regard to the fact that all players in the club must feed from the one trough. Some players make demands that the club just cannot meet. Bird was no doubt in the same boat- wanting an assured spot in First Grade that we could not offer. Presumably he also made demands this year that the Sharks have been unable to meet.

Perhaps the problem with Dugan was being overpaid 4 years back. Having said that and as good a player as he has been at the Dragons, I think he was a more dynamic attacking player early in his career at the Raiders. I do think he would have been tremendous next year at right centre. Crazy if he ends up playing centre at the Sharks!

Dufty, Field and Mann all offer qualities in the FB role. Let's hope one of them emerges as a real champion. Certainly time now to get the off contract backs - Mann, Lafai and Milne - re-signed.

Well said. The only problem is timing. We were ready to win a competition in 2018 and because of this mess, we have let that opportunity pass and now have to rebuild again. The only problem with relying on our young guns is that they are all untested for first grade. They are ready to be groomed now however, Mary won't groom them.

I believe recruiting a marquee fullback would go a long way to repairing the problem. If there is sufficient funds left over, recruit a hard nosed prop even if it means losing a couple of fringe first graders.

 

[possm]

Come on Possm f**k Hayne, Johnstone and all those wankers.
When Dugan went down it should have immediately been Mann or Dufty to FB to see what we had in the bank already.
Our morons chose Nighty, so we are still in the dark as to whether we need a replacement or not and then people start calling immediately for outsiders to come in.
Why did we retain Dufty which was so loudly applauded just 3 months ago?
We agonise over the treatment Mann has been given and we acknowledge he is good footballer but based on 2 games at FB we have discarded him forever which makes no sense.
FMD forget about what we might buy and have a look at what we have that is of use to us and just might be the next big thing.
Oh yes that's right we just did that and we promoted KFFL to first grade outstanding work by our coaching and retention staff.

Mary's selection management and suitability as first grade coach is another story. Sure makes you wonder what management are seeing in Mary as a coach.