Its time for a name change

[Mr Angry]

Fugg off 2 players and call it 11's

 

[Thomas]

LOL - we agree on something!

I know...the planets must be aligned.

 

[Thomas]

As any true Queenslander will tell you, when you talk about "footy" in this State, you mean rugby league, not soccer (or any other code for that matter).

True, soccer is known as football in most parts of the world - emphasis on "most". Just not here in the Sunshine State.

And long may the difference continue...

Yes, but the original topic was about international expansion. I certainly don't call soccer, footy, and neither does anyone I know.

It'd be useless to try and tell people that Rugby League should now be known as "Footy" as that would confuse them more. FFS most people in bloody Melbourne don't know that there are two codes.

 

[Calixte]

Yes, but the original topic was about international expansion. I certainly don't call soccer, footy, and neither does anyone I know.

It'd be useless to try and tell people that Rugby League should now be known as "Footy" as that would confuse them more. FFS most people in bloody Melbourne don't know that there are two codes.

I dare say I agree with that too.

My point is that rugby league should remain rugby league but the term "footy" is not restricted, in its current usage (in QLD at least), to soccer but rather already refers to RL.

Hence the waste of time for the FFA to try to convince people otherwise.*

* although it seems to be working with numerous editors and sub-editors of certain newspapers!

 

[Woods99]

This is a serious post, and it is NOT AN ATTACK ON RUGBY LEAGUE.


I will use the Cola wars to make a point which I think is valid. In using the Cola analogy, I am not implying anything about the absolute or relative popularity of either game.

When the Pepsi company decided to challenge Coca-Cola, they named their product Pepsi-Cola.

By appropriating the name "Cola" they were, presumably, saying to consumers of Coca-Cola "look, here is another cola, ours is definitely a cola, but it is a better cola".

The question of the name of either of the rugby codes is obviously an emotive one. Let us consider it calmly and unemotionally.

While the numbers are debatable, it appears that more people play, support, and recognise the game of rugby (union) than play, support, and recognise the game rugby league.

If the debate is about what either game should be called in its heartlands, then obviously it comes down to a matter of common usage and custom. I am not putting forward any opinion about this.

However, if the debate is about which is the best name under which rugby league can be promoted and developed in those regions where it either does not exist, or where it runs second to rugby (union), then surely the Cola example has a message.

If those promoting rugby league want it to be seen as just another kind of rugby, then calling it rugby league is the easy option. I have pointed out that to rugby (union) people, the term "rugby league" is ambiguous, and even misleading. But, so be it.

However, if those who promote rugby league into new markets genuinely want to differentiate it from rugby (union) ........... i.e., this is not just another brand of Cola, but a different, better, product, then surely it should not be called "rugby".

 

[Copa]

The new "Rugby Football League" website is great...

http://www.therfl.co.uk/HOME/fixtures_select.php

Use our Rugby Club Locator to find your nearest club

 

[Woods99]

The new "Rugby Football League" website is great...

http://www.therfl.co.uk/HOME/fixtures_select.php

So when can we expect Leagues Clubs to rename themselves Rugby Clubs?

I can just see it now. Manly-Warringah Rugby Club Ltd.

 

[griff]

The cola analogy doesn't really work because Pepsi-cola and Coca-cola weren't once the same drink. Pepsi decided to create a new drink that was like Coke. Rugby League didn't decide to create a new sport that was sort of like Rugby Union. Wigan were playing the same sport against most of the same clubs in 1896 as they were in 1894.

It is in nations where Rugby League is not that well known it is better to keep the name rugby. Even in Victoria, when people refer to "rugby" it is more often than not Rugby League that they mean. It is much easier to get people to play in a rugby league if they have already heard of rugby.

 

[taipan]

So when can we expect Leagues Clubs to rename themselves Rugby Clubs?

I can just see it now. Manly-Warringah Rugby Club Ltd.

Your old chestnut throwing in the licensed club argument:lol: .Try something different
Melbourne,Warriors and Newcastle at one stage ,operate without "league clubs".Leagues clubs can go insolvent tomorrow,the football club is a separate entity,separate accounts.The Sharks league club went down the tube a few decades back,the football club ie rugby league team still continued on.
We are talking sport :the Manly team is the Manly Warringah Rugby League team.The competition is known as the National Rugby League.
.
The famous Harlequins rugby union club in London,has now formed an alliance with the former London Broncos (now known wait for it Woods the Harlequins rugby league club).The two clubs will be marketed as such,already the rugby league club has 1,400 season ticket holders paid up ,and 20 sponsors boxes (including wait for it Woods Barclay's Bank) ,at the Stoop.Indicating unequivocally that marketing the Harlequin's rugby league team,has proven an outstanding success in the London market,the home of Twickers.
Maybe Harlequins have confirmed ,that you are just whistling in the wind.Its a fait accompli.

 

[Woods99]

Your old chestnut throwing in the licensed club argument:lol: .Try something different
Melbourne,Warriors and Newcastle at one stage ,operate without "league clubs".Leagues clubs can go insolvent tomorrow,the football club is a separate entity,separate accounts.The Sharks league club went down the tube a few decades back,the football club ie rugby league team still continued on.
We are talking sport :the Manly team is the Manly Warringah Rugby League team.The competition is known as the National Rugby League.
.
The famous Harlequins rugby union club in London,has now formed an alliance with the former London Broncos (now known wait for it Woods the Harlequins rugby league club).The two clubs will be marketed as such,already the rugby league club has 1,400 season ticket holders paid up ,and 20 sponsors boxes (including wait for it Woods Barclay's Bank) ,at the Stoop.
Maybe Harlequins have confirmed ,that you are just whistling in the wind.Its a fait accompli.

Thanks, Taipan, for explaining it all so simply. I have actually heard about the Quins rescuing rugby league in London. I am all in favour of charity.

As I have said often.....I do not care what you guys want to call your game. It is up to you.

Manly-Warringah Rugby Club Ltd. ??????? I don't think so. But maybe your team thinks differently?

 

[Mr_Ugly]

Actually, to be pedantic, the name cola comes from the cola nut, provides the flavour for the drink - so technically they are both correct to call their drinks "cola". But that's a different issue.

Now, although this may upset a few people here, I for one do am somewhat sympathetic to a change in the name "rugby". The history of the division of the two codes is well known (i.e. the split of the game of rugby in the north vs the south of England), and as such it could be reasonably argued that both codes have continuous heritage and a claim to the name "rugby".

Nevertheless, there is obviously some concern over (possible) confusion associated with the nomenclature, and indeed some apparrent annoyance in some circles that the name "rugby" has been applied to both codes (obviously the artice I posted above didn't satisfy everyone). With that in mind, may I suggest a solution: that the sport currently known as "rugby league" be referred to from now on as "rugby league" (or more simply "rugby"), whilst the game known as "rugby union" henceforth be referred to as something more appropriate ... as a suggestion, how about Southern Union (becuase of the historical link to the south).

That should clear up any confusion quite nicely!

 

[taipan]

Thanks, Taipan, for explaining it all so simply. I have actually heard about the Quins rescuing rugby league in London. I am all in favour of charity.

As I have said often.....I do not care what you guys want to call your game. It is up to you.

Manly-Warringah Rugby Club Ltd. ??????? I don't think so. But maybe your team thinks differently?

They didnt rescue rugby league in London Woods99 .Rugby league is one of the fastest growing sports in that city,there are other teams like the Storm,Skolars(the latter a very good chance of being the next pro team) and many others.If the Broncos had collapsed,rugby league would have still continued to grow in that city,albeit without a ESL team.No deathknell for rugby league mate.
The Broncos had financial problems,well publicised .The Broncos were welcomed as partners not tenants.This means the facilities of the Stoop are used 12 months,a win also for Quins financially.A survey Nick Cartwright the CEO of the Harlequins rugby league team,indicated at a recent Quins RU game,95% of respondents indicated they were interested in rugby league.
I have been to Brentwood where the Broncs played, to watch the Kangaroos play England A in 2003.The ground and facilities were ordinary to say the least.
No ! its not up to us ,to what we call the game ,and it sure as hell not up to you,we are following established historical practice. Its called rugby league ,take em to court.:roll:
The legal precedent was set when the French rugby league team won the right ,after having the name removed by Govt,to have the name rugby reinstated to their title.
You can spend hours,protesting,](*,) ](*,) ,thats all the good it does.
The Manly team is called the Manly Rugby League team no one really gives a hoot ,what the licensed club is called.
Newtown Jets doesnt have a league's club.They are the Newtown jets rugby league team.Notice the yellow Pages has under the heading Clubs-rugby league-has rugby league football clubs and leagues clubs.
If you dont care ! why are you wasting time and space, trying to justify unsuccessfully that rugby league has no right to include the name rugby.
Talk about an exercise in futility.

 

[Woods99]

Paragraphs, Taipan, paragraphs, please.:?

 

[taipan]

Paragraphs, Taipan, paragraphs, please.:?[/QUOTE

Depending on the frame of mind I am in,you will get paragraphs ! .Sometimes you have to keep it simple.

A distinct section of a piece of writing ,beginning on a new line.Must bear that in mind I m becoming "laxer"' ,hey what !Damn private school education and playing union.:shock:

 

[Woods99]

Actually, to be pedantic, the name cola comes from the cola nut, provides the flavour for the drink - so technically they are both correct to call their drinks "cola". But that's a different issue.

I was not debating technical correctness, but simply making the point that the Pepsi company in choosing to call its product Pepsi-Cola was starting from a position of commonality with Coca-Cola. They could have opted for a totally different name, but they apparently wanted to minimise the difference with the original brand.

Now, although this may upset a few people here, I for one do am somewhat sympathetic to a change in the name "rugby". The history of the division of the two codes is well known (i.e. the split of the game of rugby in the north vs the south of England), and as such it could be reasonably argued that both codes have continuous heritage and a claim to the name "rugby".

Nevertheless, there is obviously some concern over (possible) confusion associated with the nomenclature, and indeed some apparrent annoyance in some circles that the name "rugby" has been applied to both codes (obviously the artice I posted above didn't satisfy everyone). With that in mind, may I suggest a solution: that the sport currently known as "rugby league" be referred to from now on as "rugby league" (or more simply "rugby"), whilst the game known as "rugby union" henceforth be referred to as something more appropriate ... as a suggestion, how about Southern Union (becuase of the historical link to the south).

That should clear up any confusion quite nicely!

Yes, it should. But I don't think it would do much to persuade people who think that any sport with the name "rugby" in its title should resemble rugby union.

 

[Woods99]

They didnt rescue rugby league in London Woods99 .Rugby league is one of the fastest growing sports in that city,there are other teams like the Storm,Skolars(the latter a very good chance of being the next pro team) and many others.If the Broncos had collapsed,rugby league would have still continued to grow in that city,albeit without a ESL team.No deathknell for rugby league mate.

As I have pointed out elsewhere, Taipan, it is very very easy to get a fast growth rate from a zero base. For example, by some measures rugby league is growing by 20% per annum in the USA. The problem is that rugby union is growing by far more every year in real terms than the whole of the rugby league establishment in the States.

The Broncos had financial problems,well publicised .The Broncos were welcomed as partners not tenants.This means the facilities of the Stoop are used 12 months,a win also for Quins financially.A survey Nick Cartwright the CEO of the Harlequins rugby league team,indicated at a recent Quins RU game,95% of respondents indicated they were interested in rugby league.
I have been to Brentwood where the Broncs played, to watch the Kangaroos play England A in 2003.The ground and facilities were ordinary to say the least.

Initial interest and long term support are different things. But there is a huge population in London, including a lot of expatriate Aussies at any time, and a lot of people who grew up in other parts of England, including the north, so it would be hard to imagine that one league franchise could not exist there. If it cannot, then the future outlook for your sport is dire indeed.

No ! its not up to us ,to what we call the game ,and it sure as hell not up to you,we are following established historical practice. Its called rugby league ,take em to court.:roll:

Taipan, I did not start this thread. As I have said many times before, I could not care less what your game calls itself. However, if it wants to promote itself internationally into rugby union areas, it would probably do better to differentiate itself. It is a different game now.

On the other hand, the international promotion of rugby league is a pretty amateurish affair, isn't it? So perhaps the money boys of the game don't really care much about what its called. Footy? League? Who cares as long as the ratings in New South Wales and Queensland are good.

The legal precedent was set when the French rugby league team won the right ,after having the name removed by Govt,to have the name rugby reinstated to their title.
You can spend hours,protesting,](*,) ](*,) ,thats all the good it does.
The Manly team is called the Manly Rugby League team no one really gives a hoot ,what the licensed club is called.
Newtown Jets doesnt have a league's club.They are the Newtown jets rugby league team.Notice the yellow Pages has under the heading Clubs-rugby league-has rugby league football clubs and leagues clubs.
If you dont care ! why are you wasting time and space, trying to justify unsuccessfully that rugby league has no right to include the name rugby.
Talk about an exercise in futility.

Where did I say anything about "rights", thickhead? Taipan, keep setting up straw men, and keep knocking them down, if it makes you feel better. But, on the other hand, I am happy to have a debate with you about what I said if you want to. And are able to.

 

[griff]

Taipan, I did not start this thread. As I have said many times before, I could not care less what your game calls itself. However, if it wants to promote itself internationally into rugby union areas, it would probably do better to differentiate itself. It is a different game now.

Just the opposite. It would be much better to call itself rugby. Where rugby is known it would be much easier to get people to watch something that is also called rugby than to try and get people to watch something they have never heard of.

 

[Woods99]

Just the opposite. It would be much better to call itself rugby. Where rugby is known it would be much easier to get people to watch something that is also called rugby than to try and get people to watch something they have never heard of.

Griff, you are a marketing genius. I'll bet nobody has ever thought of introducing a new product to a market and advertising it by the name of an existing product.

I can see the ads now: "Come on, rugby fans, and watch a game of rugby." Yeah, that'll really get them in.

 

[griff]

lol actually it's building on the existing brand equity in the term rugby. RU has built up awareness of the term rugby that RL can come in and capitalise on.

It is exactly what the ARU do in the AFL states where RL has built up awareness of the term rugby.

What would your ads be "Come on and watch a game of (insert name no one has ever heard of).

 

[Woods99]

lol actually it's building on the existing brand equity in the term rugby. RU has built up awareness of the term rugby that RL can come in and capitalise on.

It is exactly what the ARU do in the AFL states where RL has built up awareness of the term rugby.

What would your ads be "Come on and watch a game of (insert name no one has ever heard of).

Griff,

I will get into trouble for saying this. But the most significant obstacle to the expansion of rugby league internationally is actually the power brokers of the game, who control the purse strings, and could not care less about anything other than their own immediate jobs, careers, and incomes.

However, if I were suddenly appointed to the job of World Rugby League Supremo, with lots of money, and lots of staff, I would look around for a different name. A name that says, hey, this is not boring old rugby union, this is a different, better sport.

People who are fixated on the name "rugby" are living in the past, are not comfortable with the present, and are afraid of the future.

Leave the name to the rah rahs, the leather patch brigade, the Vichy French sympathisers, etc etc etc.